An Open Thread To AVN & Internext...

[docholly]

I'm happy to say 3 of your listeners have already reached out to me tonight.

maybe they were surfing listeners..

just for the record (i'm so anal i had to go count) i attended 92 trade shows and expos this year.

[Greenguy]

emmanuelle - I'm sure he meant "board surfers"

EmporerEJ - all the archives from our shows are posted here:
http://www.greenguysboard.com/radio.html

docholly - sorry for misquoting you - I thought I read 22 someplace

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by emmanuelle

So we're surfers now?

You must be a webmaster because surfers bitch less...

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by EmporerEJ

AVNOnline Management is QUITE aware of my position. I have also relayed that 99.9% of ALL opinions I've read on the various boards are very much along the lines of my opinion.

We have publicly stated that we are boycotting this year in Vegas because of the stupidity of scheduling.

Great - less competition for fellow media whores like me!

[AVNFarley]

Originally Posted by EmporerEJ

AVNOnline Management is QUITE aware of my position. I have also relayed that 99.9% of ALL opinions I've read on the various boards are very much along the lines of my opinion.

We have publicly stated that we are boycotting this year in Vegas because of the stupidity of scheduling.

I'd like to be personally made aware of your position. Please contact me if you'd like to discuss.
Thanks
Farley

farley@avn.com
AIM AVNFarley
818-718-5788

[docholly]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

docholly - sorry for misquoting you - I thought I read 22 someplace

GG you didn't.. i probably thought i did ..but i am anal *that's about the only place i'm anal*.. and had to go look.. lmao..

[furrygirl]

Originally Posted by Linkster

there are two points that I always have stinging in the back of my mind though - the first being the "deals" that you are able to make for your amateurs - which although I fully respect you for being able to do so - kind of grates on quite a few amateur site owners that read this - I'm pretty sure they aren't going to post their thoughts, but it kind of stinks for them as they don't have the recognition or background to be able to negotiate anything with AVN. Again this is not to take anything away from you - it's just one symptom of a system that is broken.

As an amateur site webmaster, I thought I'd reply.

I actually take no offense to AVN not trying to work around me. I don't expect to have the clout of a top adult company, that's silly.

It's my decision to spend the $2500 or so for the experience, or stay at home and read webmaster board archives for a week, for free, in my pajamas. Or it could be my decision to be pro-active and positive and organize a local adult webmaster gathering in my own city that best suits the needs of that group.

I just don't feel conned or ignored, although OF COURSE I'd like it to cost me less. And OF COURSE I'd like it if more people attended, but you can't put on a large-scale business event that is cheap enough for *anyone*.

Seriously, how inexpensive does it have to be to be inclusive of the tiniest "webmasters in the trenches"? $1000 for the whole trip? $500? That's where regional conventions and local webmaster hangouts come in handy, in my mind.

If I wanted to bitch about other businesses not listening to my needs, I'm more inclined to be pissed off that credit card companies charge us exorbitant fees for processing because they encourage customers commit fraud against adult sites.

[Jim]

Webmasters truly are the Red Headed Stepchildren of AVN. As Farly said last night, they make their money from the Video part of the business and the magazine.

Far-l, I understand why you would defend AVN. I'm sure they help your business out quite a bit with the Video end. But, they really don't do anything for the average webmasters. Farly said that the magazine was what they gave back. But, come on, if that is all AVN gives back, that is kind of lame.

As I said, with Farly being here, we have a start. But AVN needs to know who the webmasters are.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by Far-L

Great - less competition for fellow media whores like me!

:-)

Far-L I'll never be as big a whore as you man...
Only man I know that can "entertain visitors," shoot content for the live stream, Get Blown by a cute chic, be interviewed by a british babe for MSNBC, and at the same time, maintain his erection and control his ejaculation time.

You'll always be my hero!

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by AVNFarley

I'd like to be personally made aware of your position. Please contact me if you'd like to discuss.
Thanks
Farley

farley@avn.com
AIM AVNFarley
818-718-5788

I'll be happy to forward my conversations with Kat (With her permission of course)

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by Jim

Webmasters truly are the Red Headed Stepchildren of AVN. As Farly said last night, they make their money from the Video part of the business and the magazine.

Far-l, I understand why you would defend AVN. I'm sure they help your business out quite a bit with the Video end. But, they really don't do anything for the average webmasters. Farly said that the magazine was what they gave back. But, come on, if that is all AVN gives back, that is kind of lame.

As I said, with Farly being here, we have a start. But AVN needs to know who the webmasters are.

Jim-
I'm concerned that something is getting missed here in this conversation. There is a very clear distinction between "AVN" and "AVNOnline" in my mind.

Sure they are all part of Teddy Communications, and yes, they are the same company. But within the company, it's always been my impression that AVN was the top banana, and AVNOnline is the bastard child. (MY personal exposure impression.)
webmasters, being the "offspring" as it were, of AVNOnline, are regarded by "corporate management" as just that.
This may be a result of how AVNOnline came into existence. Many newbies here will not remember that AVNOnline magazine was a "Purchased Publication" by AVN. AVN, being the original magazine founded right here in the Commonwealth of PA by a video store owner.

They have separate personnel, editing staff etc. And while I may be biased, I've always felt AVNOnline was a MUCH better magazine. Better writers, better editing, nicer people, and all around much more "on the ball." (No pun intended)


But this show schedule was just a really stupid idea all around and the person that said it would be a good idea should be taken out back and beaten severely.

[Jim]

Originally Posted by EmporerEJ

Jim-
I'm concerned that something is getting missed here in this conversation. There is a very clear distinction between "AVN" and "AVNOnline" in my mind.

Sure they are all part of Teddy Communications, and yes, they are the same company. But within the company, it's always been my impression that AVN was the top banana, and AVNOnline is the bastard child. (MY personal exposure impression.)
webmasters, being the "offspring" as it were, of AVNOnline, are regarded by "corporate management" as just that.
This may be a result of how AVNOnline came into existence. Many newbies here will not remember that AVNOnline magazine was a "Purchased Publication" by AVN. AVN, being the original magazine founded right here in the Commonwealth of PA by a video store owner.

They have separate personnel, editing staff etc. And while I may be biased, I've always felt AVNOnline was a MUCH better magazine. Better writers, better editing, nicer people, and all around much more "on the ball." (No pun intended)


But this show schedule was just a really stupid idea all around and the person that said it would be a good idea should be taken out back and beaten severely.

So tell me, which do you find more informative as a magazine for webmasters? AVNOnline, Xbiz World or Klixxx?

[RawAlex]

I also want to add this:

Reduced rate badges based on the type of site you run or the amount of yourself you put on the net seems a little bit weird to me. Is my reward for keeping my clothes on (a good thing, trust me) to pay double what other people pay for the same thing?

Is this a question of Homegrown paying the other half, or is AVN giving away deals?

Is there any sane reason why badges are so expensive?

Alex

[Greenguy]

Alex - I don't think we got a clear answer to that, which I know I asked (why pay $170 to have people spam us in person - $250 to hear seminars from people that are probably there to spam us as well since they are not really being paid)

I think we did get the "it is what you make of it" reply, but the badge (seminars or not) has much less value than it did in 2000.

I will say this & I looked it up after the show last night - the rates for The Venetian are $20/night more than last year, which considering it's the 3 conventions at the same time, is not that bad of a mark up (and badge costs are the same)

[Jim]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Is there any sane reason why badges are so expensive?

Alex

The answer is simple math. They have to make a certain amount at each show. As fewer and fewer webmasters and sponsors show up, prices go up. If the attendance keeps going the direction that it is going, badges will be a grand in a few years

[Greenguy]

Does anyone have the basic badge costs from 2004? 2003? 2002? 2001? 2000? 1999?

2000 was the 1st year at The Venetian - 1999 was the Monte Carlo if I remember correctly.

I lost all my old emails mid 2004 so I don;t have that info

[RawAlex]

GG, the rates for the hotel were like that only until they sold out, and that was a long, long time ago. Most people are paying significantly more than last year, especially those who would normally stay at secondary hotels. What finally decided it for me not to go was when I found places like Imperial Palace and Harrahs at more than $200 a night - 60 and 90 days before the event. If you did that same event 2 weeks later, we would be looking at something like $39 a night.

Jim, bad math. In making the badges more and more expensive, they in turn make it less and less attractive for sponsors and people planning booths to be on the show floor to start with. If there are less people to market to, the value of marketting goes down. Plus, you need less sales people, less hangers on, and less support staff. Why send 10 people to a show when 2 will do?

You have to have people to market to, or there is no point. At $250 for a badge, they are cutting their own legs off in the long run.

Alex

[Greenguy]

You act like it's AVN's fault that you didn't plan ahead & book early

I of course didn't factor that in & just went off the emails I got from Rose for last year & this year (which I usually just glance at & then delete to the trash folder since I book this stuff myself so I can get comped)

[SirMoby]

The question has been asked in this thread but I don't see any responce to it at all.

"Why not change the date of the Vegas and Miami shows"?

The only reason I'm going to Vegas this year is to introduce my wife to some people. If the show runs into booking problems next year I'm not going. Last year the show floor was way small and people had to wait for hours to get badges. It was simply wrong.

In 2006 I have budget for 4 shows and I'll take my wife to Vegas. If the dates don't change I'll go to 4 shows in 2007 and none of them will be AVN. If Dr. B, Tommy or GG have a get together I'll be there but Vegas is just getting silly.

[Jim]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Jim, bad math. In making the badges more and more expensive, they in turn make it less and less attractive for sponsors and people planning booths to be on the show floor to start with. If there are less people to market to, the value of marketting goes down. Plus, you need less sales people, less hangers on, and less support staff. Why send 10 people to a show when 2 will do?

You have to have people to market to, or there is no point. At $250 for a badge, they are cutting their own legs off in the long run.

Alex

You are preaching to the choir, my friend. That seems to be the math they are using. Better math would be reasonable hotel rates + reasonable badge prices = more attendees.

But, Greenie and I were talking earlier. The money doesn't affect me at all. I have the MGM wanting to get their money back from me and for the past several years they have offered a free flight and free room. In this business, I like the business. I don't care for the content part. So, unless, we turn back time to the good old days of sitting in a room smoking cigars talking business without strippers, I won't be attending any of these events.

[Jim]

And get rid of the damn strippers walking around with the scanners on the floor...I forgot that part

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by SirMoby

The question has been asked in this thread but I don't see any responce to it at all.

"Why not change the date of the Vegas and Miami shows"?...

We got a lot of answers to that on the show - Vegas is good for AVN because of the other show, Miami in August is dirt cheap & the don't want to move to another month because they'd interfere with the other conventions (San Diego, Phoenix, etc)

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Jim

....So, unless, we turn back time to the good old days of sitting in a room smoking cigars talking business without strippers, I won't be attending any of these events.

5000 people in a suite calmy smoking cigars & chatting while sipping on Brandy?

We did what you're saying in Miami...remember?

Originally Posted by Jim

And get rid of the damn strippers walking around with the scanners on the floor...I forgot that part

Didn't Aly tell us to just use a Sharpie on the bar code?

[EmporerEJ]

[quote=Greenguy]
EmporerEJ - all the archives from our shows are posted here:
http://www.greenguysboard.com/radio.html
QUOTE]

OUTSTANDING!
I shall now be a "regular" listener, since I can download this to my personal listening device and avoid some more of "real life" by listening instead!

There's enough listening in there to last me quite sometime

[Greenguy]

EmporerEJ (and everyone else) My apologies for the recording of last night's show - for some reason, about 20 minutes into it, it stop recording one channel from the mixer, which is partly why the last hour sounds like Jim & I are yelling & it's hard to hear Farley & Far-L