An Open Thread To AVN & Internext...

[Greenguy]

...and last night's is the only one really worth listening to

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by Jim

So tell me, which do you find more informative as a magazine for webmasters? AVNOnline, Xbiz World or Klixxx?

Hmmmm...hard to say.
I think it's more of a bit here, bit there?
They each have great contributions, and I read them all religiously.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

We got a lot of answers to that on the show - Vegas is good for AVN because of the other show, Miami in August is dirt cheap & the don't want to move to another month because they'd interfere with the other conventions (San Diego, Phoenix, etc)

DIRT CHEAP?
Wow, I'm coming to work for you.
Us "Po' bidness men" don't see those rates as "dirt cheap."

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

...and last night's is the only one really worth listening to

Sure sure....the one show I REALLY want to listen to, and you muck it up...

Greenguy...........you're FIRED!

(Get yer damn suitcase, and go down the elevator to the waiting cab)

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by EmporerEJ

DIRT CHEAP?
Wow, I'm coming to work for you.
Us "Po' bidness men" don't see those rates as "dirt cheap."

Can you think of a cheaper location than Miami in August at the beginning of the Hurricane season?

And it was brought up that it's not an easy task to find a place for 5000 pornographers to hang out for 4 days, so the Westin can say to AVN that they'll let us take over, as long as it's in August & they can charge their own rates since they're probably not that busy & the rates justify allowing us "porn" people.

I suggested that AVN just have a convention at some hall or convention center & let us all find our own hotels, but they said that people like being able to bump into each other in the hotel & we're all together so we don't have to worry about offending people, which contradicts what happens in Vegas, since people are staying at 30 different hotels

I could give 2 shits if I even see a nipple in Vegas, but AVN does want people to see nipples & tits & twinks in tight shorts, so we're back to the "Internext is not for us" scenario.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

Can you think of a cheaper location than Miami in August at the beginning of the Hurricane season?

And it was brought up that it's not an easy task to find a place for 5000 pornographers to hang out for 4 days, so the Westin can say to AVN that they'll let us take over, as long as it's in August & they can charge their own rates since they're probably not that busy & the rates justify allowing us "porn" people.

I suggested that AVN just have a convention at some hall or convention center & let us all find our own hotels, but they said that people like being able to bump into each other in the hotel & we're all together so we don't have to worry about offending people, which contradicts what happens in Vegas, since people are staying at 30 different hotels

I could give 2 shits if I even see a nipple in Vegas, but AVN does want people to see nipples & tits & twinks in tight shorts, so we're back to the "Internext is not for us" scenario.

No contradiction - Venetian sells out and people like to find cheaper rates at other hotels.

[RawAlex]

The problem this year is that with the show running at the same time exact dates as CES, there are no cheap hotels in Vegas. The city is as packed as it ever gets, the lineups for meals, bars, taxis, limos, and just about everything else you could want will be insane, and you get to pay a premium price for all of it.

Move the Vegas show even 1 month later, and suddenly hotel prices would drop to reasonable, the city would be more relaxed, a little warmer, and nobody would be suffering for it.

Anyone else notice that shows like Pheonix, the Cybernet shows, and such have seen an upswing in the last couple of years?

Hmmm...

Alex

[Ramster]

Greenguy
What Alex is saying is Harrahs and other hotels are usually way way cheaper. But because of the CES Harrahs is $500/night as are the other hotels. For people who stay at the Venetian and booked early there isn't much of a price difference, you are right there.

Just got these prices off of Hotels.com right now for Harrah's:
2 Jan - C$57.27
3 Jan - C$57.27
4 Jan - C$511.89
5 Jan - C$584.35
6 Jan - C$584.35
7 Jan - C$584.35
8 Jan - C$161.28
9 Jan - C$128.56

Sorry for the C, that is Canadian dollars. LOL The price jumps from $50 to $500, that's Fucking insane.

Oh, my first show in 2001 was $125 and it was that price for another year or 2.

[emmanuelle]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

Does anyone have the basic badge costs from 2004? 2003? 2002? 2001? 2000? 1999?

2000 was the 1st year at The Venetian - 1999 was the Monte Carlo if I remember correctly.

I lost all my old emails mid 2004 so I don;t have that info

2000 -2003 the early bird special was $125, and $150 afterwards.
In 2000 & 2001 there was actually a referral program on the badges, where we received $10 from AVN for every badge purchased through our code.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Far-L

No contradiction - Venetian sells out and people like to find cheaper rates at other hotels.

It sort of is - like Farley said last night when I asked him about just renting a hall/convention area & letting us find our own hotels, AVN's POV is that it's better if we are all in one place & have the hotel to ourselves & don't annoy anyone or bump into families & whatnot. If they truly felt that way, they'd look into getting a hotel in Vegas (probably off the strip) that was just us where what he said about Miami would hold true.

Point is that if it's ok for one, why not the other?

Alex & Ramster - I agree 100% that the rooms at any hotel near the conventions are priced really high, but like Farley said, more people wanted both AVN shows at the same time & the squeaky wheel gets the grease. We're all just stupid for not telling AVN that the way they were doing it was just fine by us & assuming that they'd realize that the hotel rates would go thru the roof (How long have the blocks Rose had been sold out?)

emmanuelle - thanks for the info $125 thru 2003, $170 for 2004 to 2006 is exactly what I was wondering (I have no point to asking, just wondering - LOL)

OH! It's a moot point, but a little birdy told me that there's no major convention in Vegas from Jan 8-11 & only 1 starts on the 11th way down at Mandalay Bay

[SirMoby]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

Miami in August is dirt cheap & the don't want to move to another month because they'd interfere with the other conventions (San Diego, Phoenix, etc)

Interesting. I remember the last time I went to Florida I gold Starwood and was quoted lower rates for the week before and the week after show. The rates weren't a lot lower but like $15 to $20.

Why is it higher during the days of the convention then it is on other days?

Can't we find another hotel some where else in the country in AUgust that would be cheaper?

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by SirMoby

...Can't we find another hotel some where else in the country in AUgust that would be cheaper?

We suggested that ANYPLACE in the continental US in August would be fine (high 70's, low 80's here in Buffalo at that time of the year - just a lovely time of the year) & Farley did say that he would have them look into the possibility of having the August show in a different city & he was taking notes.

Jim said Denver

[RawAlex]

GG, I think Rose was sold out by early September... basically as soon as the Miami show was over, every found out how totally fucked January would be and started booking.

I called them and got the "only a few big suites left" deal... those were expensive at the time (but now not far out of line for a regular room at Harrahs).

Now, let me tell you a little bit about shows, and why there is the hotel room thing:

Basically, almost every hotel that has a convention center attached to it runs the convention center to put guests in the rooms. There is often a direct tie between number of square feet taken for the show and the minimum number of rooms that the show has to guarantee to get the space. Anything less than that number, and the show ends up paying for rooms that it cannot use out of pocket.

Go over that number, and there is a small travel agent style commission made.

If they didn't do that, the cost of the show floor space would likely be double or maybe even not made available.

By compressing the time frame of the shows together, AVN also benefits from having to deliver less rooms for less days (Instead of maybe 1000 room nights per day for 7 days, they maybe only have to deliver 1200 a night for 4 or 5 nights, example) because the space for both shows at the Sands is always tied up for the full 10 days or so (they cannot run another anything with a porn show at that end of the building).

AVN cuts their entire show time down by 3 days, saves themselves a butload of money, gets rid of the new years day load in costs, and the bottom line looks much better as a result. They can lose 10-20% attendance and still come out far, far ahead.

It is short sighted to the max... but it does improve the bottom line.

Alex

[Chop Smith]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

OH! It's a moot point, but a little birdy told me that there's no major convention in Vegas from Jan 8-11 & only 1 starts on the 11th way down at Mandalay Bay

Get that little birdy to find out what a block of rooms (500 or so) cost during that time frame. Looking at Harrah's, one would be saving $1K just on room cost alone

[docholly]

I had a nice long post but changed my mind.. decided just to "tweet and chirp" on my own.

[Greenguy]

The Venetian has to love having us, since if you booked thru Rose, you not getting that room comped at all, regardless of how much you gamble.

In 2004 I was at The Venetian for 7 days (6 nights) and I think I paid for 2 of them (since I am a degenerate gambler)

[SirMoby]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

We suggested that ANYPLACE in the continental US in August would be fine (high 70's, low 80's here in Buffalo at that time of the year - just a lovely time of the year) & Farley did say that he would have them look into the possibility of having the August show in a different city & he was taking notes.

Jim said Denver

While I'm for anything this side of the Mississippi if they're not tied to any city in particulr then they might want to consider something centrally located. Denver, Chicago, Indy, St. Louis, Kansas City ....

Of course Buffalo has some good webmasters there

[walrus]

I can't fathom the $$$ being talked about here. As a comparison, I go to a trade show in Vegas every April, NAB, the #3 largest show of the year. Last year, my cost less money spent on drinking, whoring, and gambling...$1000. Thats for 4 nights of the show, networking on the exhibit floor, flight, etc. Now I didn't stay on the strip but the hotel I stayed in, the only thing between it and the convention center was a parking lot.

[RawAlex]

Walrus, you hit the nail on the head. Done on almost any other week of the year (except pure holidays) there would be enough $50 hotel rooms to go aorund for everyone, enough cheap flights, and only normal size lines for stuff.

Vegas is a really nice place in the spring and fall (after the heat dies down).

Imagine being able to go to 2 or 3 shows for the price of one.

I am starting to see why people do the speciality shows and the regional events rather than doing the AVN shows...

Alex

[Tommy]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

The Venetian has to love having us, since if you booked thru Rose, you not getting that room comped at all, regardless of how much you gamble.

In 2004 I was at The Venetian for 7 days (6 nights) and I think I paid for 2 of them (since I am a degenerate gambler)

you would think with all the buisness they get from us at one time a discount would be in order

I am sure there is a huge discount but avn and rose tours pocket it

[Surfn]

Originally Posted by Tommy

you would think with all the buisness they get from us at one time a discount would be in order

I am sure there is a huge discount but avn and rose tours pocket it

I have to agree otherwise we would see significantly lower prices by the hotels.

[walrus]

Originally Posted by Tommy

you would think with all the buisness they get from us at one time a discount would be in order

I am sure there is a huge discount but avn and rose tours pocket it

I doubt it given that CES alone supports the largest convention in Vegas each year. Expanding the city's population by somewhere between 200 - 250K each year. The Venitian would be booked whether AVN/Internext was there or not. They have absolutely no incentive to offer big discounts.

[walrus]

Originally Posted by walrus

I doubt it given that CES alone supports the largest convention in Vegas each year. Expanding the city's population by somewhere between 200 - 250K each year. The Venitian would be booked whether AVN/Internext was there or not. They have absolutely no incentive to offer big discounts.

Correction it was only around 150k in attendance last year for CES

[Linkster]

So now an example of why the prices are higher - I go to the mailbox yesterday and there is a shiny black envelope - legal sized - with a poster from Internext in it - with a caption at the bottom - make sure to register early by Dec 2
Why waste the money we are giving for the passes to send out advertisements to drum up business - to people that have already registered???? And send it so that it arrives after the registration cutoff??? What a waste and just another example of the mis-management of the whole show

[Surfn]

Originally Posted by Linkster

So now an example of why the prices are higher - I go to the mailbox yesterday and there is a shiny black envelope - legal sized - with a poster from Internext in it - with a caption at the bottom - make sure to register early by Dec 2
Why waste the money we are giving for the passes to send out advertisements to drum up business - to people that have already registered???? And send it so that it arrives after the registration cutoff??? What a waste and just another example of the mis-management of the whole show

I got mine yesterday too. The first thing I thought was "Is this a portent of things to come?". Meaning the demise of Internext in relation to our industry.

I think so.