Index doorway trick (or some magic :)

[neveremail]

Originally Posted by DJilla

Though I only have recently starting posting, I've been around this biz for more than year watching, learning, listening. Here are a couple thoughts with all due respect to those it affects.
Its an old bitch between submitters and LL's who want to be on the index.html page. Other than about 12 - 15 LL's, most don't DESERVE to be on the html page... period and those that INSIST on it are petty. Check your server records and if they don't send traffic ask for hardlink exchange somewhere and DUMP them saving yourelf time on the submits they'll come around eventually.
If a LL on its rules page insists on index.html placement, he gets what he asks for, and then the submitter is clever enough to use htaccess to get around it (I would never do this and I really don't know why anyone would, where's the benefit, just piss people off?) then it seems to me a bargain was made and kept and there shouldn't be any crying later. A deal is deal. Stand up. Besides, a majority of webmasters I've seen (most new ones less than a year or so) don't even know what or how to use htaccess.
http://www.freewebmasterhelp.com/tutorials/htaccess/
More importantly think about the long term. Its not just clicks now, its PR later too. Any page with inbound links from decent sites is going to gain PR. I've done searches and often found several pages from the same site in the results. I almost always check these out on the thought that there must be something there if so many pages are indexed (they will be indexed if you change your content around and work keywords). PR benefit accruses to the LL' too regardless where the pages are or what they end in and actually PR benefit to an LL is greater because the inbound link is usually focused on a category page.
Finally, for submitters making doorwways, I recommend making them logical and intuitive:

yoursite/teens/jan/
yoursite/anal/feb/

or

yoursite/tits/0065a
yoursite/milfs/0065b

and then sticking an index page into the
teens, anal, tits, milfs, directory. This is because surfers (especially porn surfers) are pretty clever themselves and if they like your pages they'll keep digging and just delete off the page id and try and peek into the directory. Your index will come up and you can keep them longer and maybe sell them.
Finally, its really about your site 'cause they'll check that out too and if its quality maybe even bookmark it and come back, and back. I've found that really most of my sales come from my site pages which brought surfers in from a free site submit.
You don't have to and shouldn't just rely on free site sales. If you're not equipped to be here for years then you shouldn't even try. Properly contstructed doorway content (all pages except maybe the pics directory) should be in its own directory, new text, reordered keywords, etc. because there is also going to be a "content size" benefit from the SE's regardless of the placement of that particular page in search. In otherwords you will get a slight ding of your overall sites importance from SE's on the basis of your total site size. IMHO

Personally I dont see the point in wasting time changing keywords, text alt tags etc on all freesite mirrors making them appear unique to SEs because that time could be spent making your next properly unique freesite. The time it takes you to rewrite say 4 mirrors you probably could have made 3 more new freesites. Thats just the way I see it. I do think it is a good idea but from a time management perspective it doesn't really seem worth it. Thats just me though

The only time i feel it would be worth it is if SEs start to penalize your whole site for excessive duplicate content rather than just giving your duplicate freesites one representative listing. But I have not seen any strong evidence for this as yet.

[Linkster]

Here's my opinion if ya want it
Bill and Sean are both correct - it doesnt make a fuck how you do the mirrors - if Google was really looking that closely it would be a big deal - but they arent. Second, I have submitted free sites for years where I use the index.htm and the index.html in the same folder - sometimes the .htm version gets a good listing a year later sometimes its the root and sometimes its the warning.htm - but even more important and this seems to be lost these days among free site submitters - the site you want to get into Google and other SEs is a completely different page than what the LLs will allow - you would want to get something into the SEs thats a little more aggressive in my opinion.

I guess what it boils down to is that most people are putting way too much weight on worrying about SEs and how they react to little 4 page free sites built in a half an hour - thats really not the purpose - the free sites are for LLs. More important - if a LL wont accept sites without their recip being on an index.html page - Id start submitting somewhere else as they really dont understand SEs and that might hurt you in the long run.

[SortLinks]

Originally Posted by Linkster

Here's my opinion if ya want it
Bill and Sean are both correct - it doesnt make a fuck how you do the mirrors - if Google was really looking that closely it would be a big deal - but they arent. Second, I have submitted free sites for years where I use the index.htm and the index.html in the same folder - sometimes the .htm version gets a good listing a year later sometimes its the root and sometimes its the warning.htm - but even more important and this seems to be lost these days among free site submitters - the site you want to get into Google and other SEs is a completely different page than what the LLs will allow - you would want to get something into the SEs thats a little more aggressive in my opinion.

I guess what it boils down to is that most people are putting way too much weight on worrying about SEs and how they react to little 4 page free sites built in a half an hour - thats really not the purpose - the free sites are for LLs. More important - if a LL wont accept sites without their recip being on an index.html page - Id start submitting somewhere else as they really dont understand SEs and that might hurt you in the long run.

I respect you Linkster, But It I should say free sites were for LLs in the past, now they are for SE and you know it!
and LLs for se too.Otherwise please tell me the reason LLs owners began to ask NICHED text links instead of pictures and just link to index page of LL!

[Linkster]

Sortlinks - I will respectfully disagree - the free sites that get submitted to LLs (again my opinion) should NOT be the ones that you are trying to get into the SEs - although in the long run some will fall in there - I think everyone is missing the point with trying so hard to get both LLs and their free sites listed in SEs based on recips and the way the free site is made.
I will restate - the submitted free sites should be for making money off the LLs traffic/surfers - the copy that is different enough with more aggressive marketing and submitted to DMOZ etc to get into the SEs should only have recips to toplists and thats about it. You will make a lot more money in the long run and I can (based on years of experience in SEs) state with no doubts - its a very rough road to try to worry about the free site index pages and their folders/recips etc - thats why I went to not using the category recips and I havent lost one single position in Google in the year since I dropped the cat recips. There are a lot more important things for a LL owner to do that will get them positioning in the SEs than worry about what the recip says.

[neveremail]

Originally Posted by Linkster

Sortlinks - I will respectfully disagree - the free sites that get submitted to LLs (again my opinion) should NOT be the ones that you are trying to get into the SEs - although in the long run some will fall in there - I think everyone is missing the point with trying so hard to get both LLs and their free sites listed in SEs based on recips and the way the free site is made.
I will restate - the submitted free sites should be for making money off the LLs traffic/surfers - the copy that is different enough with more aggressive marketing and submitted to DMOZ etc to get into the SEs should only have recips to toplists and thats about it. You will make a lot more money in the long run and I can (based on years of experience in SEs) state with no doubts - its a very rough road to try to worry about the free site index pages and their folders/recips etc - thats why I went to not using the category recips and I havent lost one single position in Google in the year since I dropped the cat recips. There are a lot more important things for a LL owner to do that will get them positioning in the SEs than worry about what the recip says.

Thats interesting - so can you submit each freesite you make even if they are on the same domain to DMOZ??

[Linkster]

Originally Posted by neveremail

Thats interesting - so can you submit each freesite you make even if they are on the same domain to DMOZ??

Definitely - as long as they are in separate subdirectories - you can have as many as you like in the free sites and galleries areas of DMOZ - I have some domains that have 50 free sites on them and all listed (and no Im not an editor or even know one - well at least I dont take advantage of my friendship with them)

[neveremail]

Originally Posted by Linkster

Definitely - as long as they are in separate subdirectories - you can have as many as you like in the free sites and galleries areas of DMOZ - I have some domains that have 50 free sites on them and all listed (and no Im not an editor or even know one - well at least I dont take advantage of my friendship with them)

Thanks thats a good tip - I will keep doing that from now on
You can also post that more aggressively advertised freesite designed for SE surfers on no recip forums and anywhere else you can think of.

[SortLinks]

Originally Posted by Linkster

Sortlinks - I will respectfully disagree - the free sites that get submitted to LLs (again my opinion) should NOT be the ones that you are trying to get into the SEs - although in the long run some will fall in there - I think everyone is missing the point with trying so hard to get both LLs and their free sites listed in SEs based on recips and the way the free site is made.
I will restate - the submitted free sites should be for making money off the LLs traffic/surfers - the copy that is different enough with more aggressive marketing and submitted to DMOZ etc to get into the SEs should only have recips to toplists and thats about it. You will make a lot more money in the long run and I can (based on years of experience in SEs) state with no doubts - its a very rough road to try to worry about the free site index pages and their folders/recips etc - thats why I went to not using the category recips and I havent lost one single position in Google in the year since I dropped the cat recips. There are a lot more important things for a LL owner to do that will get them positioning in the SEs than worry about what the recip says.

Thats perfect!
Now I agree with you on the above...
how about categories? Do you promote em via category trades only?

Surprised that you have managed it with only text recip.. (btw I do it with NON TEEN LLS in my sig too
Congrats!

upon my ex and the experience of 3 of friends who submit free sites...they make sales from SE traffic of free sites 4 month of age.
I completly agree that in the long run it is..
But I always live to have SE optimised free sites, to maintain better positons for our LLs (and free sites) by having better backlinks (As I noticed sites with s1/fn/ live much longer than s1/warning.html at least now with present google filters) and niched recips.
Its hard times for "white optimisation" guys like we are

its goona be an interesting thread for all free sites submites...we should rename it

site1/folder[n]/ VS s1/warn[n].html... lol

guys feel free to post your opinion...
and
THANK you so much Linkster!!
You gave us hope that things are not so bad at all