Are autosubmitters true evil?

[hjnet]

Originally Posted by Linkster

The one other thing that wasnt mentioned here is that as a LL or TGP owner I dont want my submit page loaded in another program - form fillers dont do this, but there are some submit programs that will - which does two things that I tend to dislike - 1st - it avoids having to read the rules page which might get updated, and 2nd - it avoids any advertising I might put up for submitting WMs (hence the amazing email confirmations with huge ads that came about when RS was in its prime) therefore I am making a little less money overall if that type of submitter is used(not a huge deal but worth consideration)

Therefore you'll get more incomming links from Recips

[Linkster]

Originally Posted by hjnet

Therefore you'll get more incomming links from Recips

Hey - if they're stupid enough to put up a recip without reading my rules that I only accept partner submissions - sounds like its their problem - not mine Not that recips do much for anyone anyway - the 2 hits a month are "gold" (yes Im being sarcastic)

[hjnet]

Hey - if they're stupid enough to put up a recip without reading my rules that I only accept partner submissions - sounds like its their problem - not mine

I agree, in other words you profit from autosubmitters that don't maintain their DB correctly (in that Recip case)

Not that recips do much for anyone anyway - the 2 hits a month are "gold" (yes Im being sarcastic)

As a LinkList owner you do know about the SEO value of relevant incomming links, especially when you're able to choose the anchor text yourself?
If they just bring you 2 hits a month, why do you keep them at all?

[Linkster]

hjnet - Im not sure exactly what you mean about the SEO value of recips on free sites autosubmitted?? Best I can tell, most LLs dont list autosubmitted sites, so there wouldnt be any page rank flow for Google unless the submitter happened to use a free site that he developed to something with an amazing page rank inherent on that page - again the stupidity to waste something like that would not be in the submitters interest. From a historical basis and some good guessing at page rank since there is no reliable indicator anymore, I would say that I havent had a free site autosubmitted that would give any search engine benefit in at least 5 years that Ive been watching for the autosubmitters. I also dont have any anchor text on my recips as I only use request a link to the index page and dont use category recips anymore as they obviously had no effect on search engine placement (ranking) and were discontinued over a year ago. I would go so far as to say that the recip links on free sites have a miniscule effect on ranking (if any) and therefore I have very little concern for that line of reasoning

As far as the 2 hits a month - again - that would only apply to free sites that actually got listed on other LLs as well - something that usually doesnt happen - and if those two hits produce anything - well Ill just keep it thank you

This is a discussion that we have on this board probably every 6 months although the recip question probably was discussed here rather recently and it gets old - but just like anything that people are misled into believing it just wont go away

[Surfn]

Originally Posted by Linkster

This is a discussion that we have on this board probably every 6 months although the recip question probably was discussed here rather recently and it gets old - but just like anything that people are misled into believing it just wont go away

You would thin that an adult webmaster trying to improve himself or herself would read everything they could on a board like this. Sadly that isn't always the case

[hjnet]

Originally Posted by Linkster

hjnet - Im not sure exactly what you mean about the SEO value of recips on free sites autosubmitted?? Best I can tell, most LLs dont list autosubmitted sites, so there wouldnt be any page rank flow for Google unless the submitter happened to use a free site that he developed to something with an amazing page rank inherent on that page - again the stupidity to waste something like that would not be in the submitters interest. From a historical basis and some good guessing at page rank since there is no reliable indicator anymore, I would say that I havent had a free site autosubmitted that would give any search engine benefit in at least 5 years that Ive been watching for the autosubmitters. I also dont have any anchor text on my recips as I only use request a link to the index page and dont use category recips anymore as they obviously had no effect on search engine placement (ranking) and were discontinued over a year ago. I would go so far as to say that the recip links on free sites have a miniscule effect on ranking (if any) and therefore I have very little concern for that line of reasoning

As far as the 2 hits a month - again - that would only apply to free sites that actually got listed on other LLs as well - something that usually doesnt happen - and if those two hits produce anything - well Ill just keep it thank you

This is a discussion that we have on this board probably every 6 months although the recip question probably was discussed here rather recently and it gets old - but just like anything that people are misled into believing it just wont go away

Just to avoid that someone get's the idea I'm defending autosubmitters here, I'm only using manual submission since years, even on TGPs and MGPs, and I do that cause I know how easy it is to fuck up an autosubmitter. So I completely understand the ban of autosubmitters from LinkLists.

BUT, if you say "Best I can tell, most LLs dont list autosubmitted sites" I'd suggest you buy a subscription for an manual submission tool or autosubmitter yourself, just to get an idea how they work. Most (all) of them just load your submission page in Internet Explorer, and sends the form like any human being, so there's no way to detect an autosubmission (as long as the submitting webmaster doesn't fuck up the submission all the time). And I bet you that most LinkList owners (including yourself) list much more autosubmitted Freesites than they'd expect.

The Recip Thingie is something different, I actually see them as a valuable tool for SEO, but that's just my personal opinion.

[Linkster]

I actually own 3 different autosubmitters - bought them so I could reverse engineer them and get code to block them - and you'd be surprised what a little coding can tell you about submitters Yes there are some LLs that allow them unknowingly - and I allow the form fillers for my partners - but I can guarantee that the auto-submitters go directly to the blacklist and that will be shared with the other LL owners in the very near future

I know we wont agree on the recip links - but then - it really doesnt matter as I know who ranks for what in google

[hjnet]

Originally Posted by Linkster

I actually own 3 different autosubmitters - bought them so I could reverse engineer them and get code to block them - and you'd be surprised what a little coding can tell you about submitters Yes there are some LLs that allow them unknowingly - and I allow the form fillers for my partners - but I can guarantee that the auto-submitters go directly to the blacklist and that will be shared with the other LL owners in the very near future

Well, I'd say that too if I wanted to keep autosubmitters of my Sites

But we can test it if you like, give me a partner account for 5 days at one of your "protected" sites, and I'll submit 10 random links to it, 9 per handsubmission and one per autosubmission. And you'd have to pick the autosubmitted one.
I bet $100 that you'd pick the wrong one, although there's a chance of 1:10

[Surfn]

Originally Posted by hjnet

Just to avoid that someone get's the idea I'm defending autosubmitters here, I'm only using manual submission since years, even on TGPs and MGPs, and I do that cause I know how easy it is to fuck up an autosubmitter. So I completely understand the ban of autosubmitters from LinkLists.

BUT, if you say "Best I can tell, most LLs dont list autosubmitted sites" I'd suggest you buy a subscription for an manual submission tool or autosubmitter yourself, just to get an idea how they work. Most (all) of them just load your submission page in Internet Explorer, and sends the form like any human being, so there's no way to detect an autosubmission (as long as the submitting webmaster doesn't fuck up the submission all the time). And I bet you that most LinkList owners (including yourself) list much more autosubmitted Freesites than they'd expect.

The Recip Thingie is something different, I actually see them as a valuable tool for SEO, but that's just my personal opinion.

Any old school LL owner or TGP owner can spot an auto submit a mile away. If you believe otherwise you are just fooling yourself.

[MadMax]

Originally Posted by Surfn

Any old school LL owner or TGP owner can spot an auto submit a mile away. If you believe otherwise you are just fooling yourself.

I'm not even old school, and I can smell them a mile away

Autosubmitters are a plague on my house, and I can easily stand with the other LL owners here in saying that there isn't one out there that behaves well enough to keep itself from being detected. Maybe not on the first submit, but eventually it will become apparent.

Hate to be mysterious, but I just can't give away any of the trade secrets on how they throw flags up...be they DO throw up flags that go way beyond not filling form fields correctly

[Useless]

Originally Posted by hjnet

...so there's no way to detect an autosubmission (as long as the submitting webmaster doesn't fuck up the submission all the time).

WRONG! Think about the process, compare the difference between auto and manual, and you may figure out how intelligent scripts know when a link was auto-submitted.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

WRONG! Think about the process, compare the difference between auto and manual, and you may figure out how intelligent scripts know when a link was auto-submitted.

I've only had a half-cup of coffee this morning and I can still figure that one out.

[Allfetish]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

WRONG! Think about the process, compare the difference between auto and manual, and you may figure out how intelligent scripts know when a link was auto-submitted.

For starters besides the obvious referrer and UA which could be spoofed, I could see a mechanism based on the time from which the form was loaded (if at all) and it was submitted. Autosubmits would be near instantanious, hand submits would not be so even for the fastest typist.