a affiliate who uses my content for evil

[rowan]

Originally posted by MrMaryLou
Skimming, CJ or what ever ya want to call it sucks Oh sure lets put a thumb up for a lesbian gallery and send them to another tgp oh thats so effective Come on all your doing is inflating numbers and pissing off surfers and when you do it with hosted galleries or any ones content its miss use of there owned content plain and simple would you use a sponsors banner to send the surfer to another site? All the cj type tgps are the death of the tgps for sure the final nail in the coffin

It's called evolution.

Yes, skimfree TGPs are cleaner and tend to make more money per surfer... but these days it's far easier to grow a skimming TGP and make up for it with volume.

I'll go out on a limb here and give you some real figures. When my (skimming) TGP was at 100k, I was making approximately $US2000 per month from signups off hosted galleries. I'm sure plenty of you make more than this, but the beauty of this site is that it is nearly fully automated. Both trading and thumb rotation are handled by scripts. There is very little human intervention required, maybe 30 mins work average per day.

This is the future of TGPs. Bang in a thousand hosted gallery URLs and suitable thumbs, configure scripts, then let them do most of the work.

[STEVEN]

Interesting. I have never seen a sponsor kill an affliliate account for using a hosted gallery on a Thumb Preview site before.

Also, that host ... They close down a guys account because of a complaint of one thumbnail image? Which they didn't even bother to verfiy?

This has truly been an interesting thread.

[Ramster]

Unfortuneately every thumb tgp that uses hosted galleries does this. They use content illegally so to speak. But most are clean sites for the most part sending surfers to the gallery a high percentage of the time.

kloot
You're problem was the popup. We all have a hate for those autoinstalls and spyware asses and if Norton went off then that pissed off Torn enough that when he saw your CJ site redirecting her thumbs to other sites it caused the problem you are in now.

Mike, how are you? You did a tgp design for me a while back.

MrMaryLou
Skimming TGPs are here to stay. They suck, I own one and I own a non skim TGP too. Sad to say but it is easy to grow one and still make some money with them.

[CraK]

Sounds like Torn only wants non-skimming TGPs to use his hosted galleries.. but UNFORTUNATELY there aren't many that are around that dont skim..

The non-skimming TGP days are long gone.. the only way to build up traffic now is by skimming a percentage to your trades..

What amazes me is that how so many people are out of touch with what's going on with their main traffic sources..

EDIT: if you were to send out emails to all the hosts of the TGPs that use your sponsor hosted galleries + skim to shut down their sites.. you will very soon be left with about 10 affiliates instead of 300..

Maybe you should put that in your FAQs page that you will not allow any TGP or MGP to use your hosted galleries if they skim

But how do you plan to get traffic? If TGPs skim, that's to gain more traffic, that means more traffic to YOUR program and more sales..

Too bad so many people dont know what's profiting or hurting them

[Greenguy]

Jesus H Christ On A Popsicle Stick! I can't believe you guys are still talking about "traffic"

kloot took an image from Kat & Torn & used to to promtoe a site other than Kat & Torn's site - what's part of the illegalness of this do some of you not understand?

[Stouch]

Hmm, with regard to Kloot, yes the popups and auto installs suck balls and whilst I wouldnt trade with his site that is his business choice.

With regard to Torn, I suspect that you created the hosted galleries as everyone else does these days and hoped that it may attract a few affiliates. Unfortunately, the only webmasters who want hosted galleries are TGP owners, and nowadays it seems that the majority are thumb TGPs, 99% of which skim.

But perhaps the worst thing is that nowhere can I see a license which states the restrictions for the pics on the galleries or a set of terms where the restrictions on thumb TGPs skimming is stated. Considering that every other sponsor that offers hosted galleries never reports it as theft to a host, is it a fair assumption that yours shouldnt be any different?

Perhaps assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups, but I would be very concerned by this as someone that offers both clean and skimming sites.

I would be majorly pissed off if my host just dumped my sites without consulting me which I believe is what may have happened.

[Stouch]

Would just like to add that skimming thumb TGP's, whilst they may suck, they can actually send you a lot of clicks to your program.

I would seek to embrace these webmasters as opposed to alienating them.

[Greenguy]

It's a sad fucking world when you have to put up a notice in your webmaster area that the webmaster can not steal your fucking content.

[Greenguy]

Seeing as no one wants to answer this - maybe it because you overlooked it

Did kloot have permission from Torn/Kat to use their content the way he did?

[CraK]

Originally posted by Greenguy
Jesus H Christ On A Popsicle Stick! I can't believe you guys are still talking about "traffic"

kloot took an image from Kat & Torn & used to to promtoe a site other than Kat & Torn's site - what's part of the illegalness of this do some of you not understand?

What I understand is that he did not use that image to promote any other program.. what you are referring to as promoting some other site is simply skimming a percentage of clicks to his trades which is very normal for a thumb tgp to do... so what's the clutter here?

[Stouch]

Originally posted by Greenguy
Jesus H Christ On A Popsicle Stick! I can't believe you guys are still talking about "traffic"

kloot took an image from Kat & Torn & used to to promtoe a site other than Kat & Torn's site - what's part of the illegalness of this do some of you not understand?

I just made the above two posts without seeing this

Was it definately to another program or to another TGP?

I would bet it was to someone in his trade script.

If it was to another program then yes that would be naughty.

[Greenguy]

Originally posted by CraK
What I understand is that he did not use that image to promote any other program.. what you are referring to as promoting some other site is simply skimming a percentage of clicks to his trades which is very normal for a thumb tgp to do... so what's the clutter here?

I never said he was promoting another program, I said he was promoting another SITE (even if I did have a few typo's in there - LOL)

Webmaster programs put out free content so that you can use it to promote their site - there is no other use for it - if you use it for something else, you run the risk of having shit like this happen to you.

I don't care if it was being used for a traffic trade, a circle jerk, a blind link or to promote the sale of socket sets on the fucking Sears Craftsman website!

kloot did not have permission to use the content the way he did & his host did the right thing when the pulled the plug after finding out from Torn just what was going on.

I am truly amazed at the number of people that think it is ok to steal content, as long as it's for a "traffic trade"

[MrMaryLou]

Using someone Else's content to skim is just plan wrong no matter how you shake it you can sit there all day and say oh I can make a site get a 100k that does make the fact that using someones content right

[RawAlex]

Sponsor content needs to be used in the VERY narrow confines of promoting the program. If you run a "skim" TGP, you need to set up certain galleries as 100% show, and use others (ie, content you have paid for) as higher skim to make up for it.

If your program cannot handle that, then I suggest you don't use sponsor content,

The use of sponsor content to promote another site, even if that other site is not a membership site is an invalid use of the content.

This isn't a question of "this sort of TGP is easier to promote / market / gain traffic on that that sort of TGP". Both types are valid business models, apparently. Using sponsor content on an uncontrolled "skim all listings" TGP is obviously in violation of the terms of use of that content (and thumbs generated from it). We are not discussing business models, we are discussing permitted use.

How hard is it to understand?

That there are sponsors out there that tolerate this sort of situation is up to those sponsors.

This guy should not have done what he did. Torn acted agressively and zealously as any copyright holder should to protect the images and to assure that use only as permitted.

HE WROTE THE RULES. YOU DON'T LIKE THE RULES, DON'T USE HIS CONTENT. IF YOU LIKE THE CONTENT, FOLLOW THE RULES.

How hard is it?

Alex

[CraK]

Originally posted by Greenguy
I never said he was promoting another program, I said he was promoting another SITE (even if I did have a few typo's in there - LOL)

Webmaster programs put out free content so that you can use it to promote their site - there is no other use for it - if you use it for something else, you run the risk of having shit like this happen to you.

I don't care if it was being used for a traffic trade, a circle jerk, a blind link or to promote the sale of socket sets on the fucking Sears Craftsman website!

kloot did not have permission to use the content the way he did & his host did the right thing when the pulled the plug after finding out from Torn just what was going on.

I am truly amazed at the number of people that think it is ok to steal content, as long as it's for a "traffic trade"

Okay, let's say it's illegal to do that and kloot was wrong and now the plug was pulled on him by his host.. but it would be a damn shame for Torn to not put something like that on his FAQs page that says that their program can only be used on non-skimming tgps and mgps..

now it's upto him to decide if he wants to take the hit and have about 200 of his affiliates drop him in a second.. because i know i would since there are 5000 other sponsors who actually wont give me shit about this and i wont have to worry at night that my site might be shut down because of some sponsor..

You can't really blame kloot for his actions because he presumed that it was okay to use Torn's content on a skimming tgp because other 5000 quality sponsors dont give him shit about it and get his sites shut down

If anything, i would blame Torn for not having something like that in his FAQs page..

And for you to say that the host did the right thing by pulling the plug on him after they saw that he was SKIMMING.. there are 50 million other decent sized tgps that do this.. so they should all be shut down?

Look at how it's gonna hurt so many sponsors.. and look at how it's gonna hurt so many hosts..

no skimming means no more huge traffic.. that means no more 100s of signups for the sponsors daily.. that means hosts will not burn much bw which will not fill their pockets..

[Linkster]

This is a legal problem that just hasnt come to a head before - yes there are a lot of major tgps out there doing exactly the same thing - and yes it is against the TOS of the programs - no one has made anything of it yet but thats not to say that anyone that owns the content has no footing - just because everyone does it doesnt make it right

I would say that most sponsors are pretty much either unaware of the legalities of the way their content is being used - or are just looking the other way in their contracts with the content suppliers - since they are also in breach of those contracts by someone sending traffic anywhere other than the sponsor that either leases or bought rights to that content.

[CraK]

Originally posted by RawAlex


HE WROTE THE RULES. YOU DON'T LIKE THE RULES, DON'T USE HIS CONTENT. IF YOU LIKE THE CONTENT, FOLLOW THE RULES.

How hard is it?

Alex

Where is it written clearly that states that only non-skimming tgps can use their content?

You guys can argue all you want to.. but the fact will remain that there are many better sponsors that actually know it's for their profit and allow it..

i'm not for kloot or against kloot.. i'm just saying what i know.. the rest depends on the sponsor and the tgp owner.. if the tgp owners want to go ahead and get shitted on by a fuckin sponsor who didn't know enough to post something like that in his faqs page in the first place.. that sponsor is out of touch with his competition programs

[MrMaryLou]

I think this issue with skimming needs its own thread http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/...threadid=10050

[RawAlex]

Crak, sponsor content can only be used to promote the sponsors site.

What part of that is so fucking hard to understand?

No different from putting up a Maxcash banner and having every 5th click download spyware. What's the difference?

NONE.

Alex

[CraK]

Originally posted by RawAlex
Crak, sponsor content can only be used to promote the sponsors site.

What part of that is so fucking hard to understand?

No different from putting up a Maxcash banner and having every 5th click download spyware. What's the difference?

NONE.

Alex

Yes i do know the sponsor content can only be used to promote the sponsor's site.. but all the sponsors i have come across so far have allowed tgps to use that content on their skim tgp..

I do admit that you are right, and there's nothing too hard with understanding that.. but how many thumb tgps do you know that dont skim atleast some percent? You think it will be such a good thing for the sponsor if they didnt allow all those thumb tgps to skim? Do you know how many sites will not promote that sponsor due to that?

It all comes down to the sponsor.. because thumb tgps will always be skimming from now on..

If the sponsor doesn't want their content to be used on skimming thumb tgps.. they should make that CLEAR.. because just by saying it is illegal to promote any other site using their content, it is not clear wether it includes the SKIM sites..

i guarantee you that if it was made clear, the sponsor would not be able to exist more than 2-3 months because all of their revenue would be gone..

That's all i had to add to this thread.. the rest is on the sponsor and the tgp webmasters

[Jim]

Originally posted by Greenguy


Did kloot have permission from Torn/Kat to use their content the way he did?

Yes...no wait, no. Then again, yes. No...I mean no. What was the question again?

I do believe it all boils down to which is better to use, live feeds or recorded feeds. Or maybe...that has nothing to do with this thread.

Truthfully...and regarding this thread, I promise. And Greenie will remember this. Back when Ultracash had all the cool branded content that we gave away. By the way...off on a tangent again, one of our newest sponsors, Matts Models was the person that took all of those cool pictures. Anyway, Greenie would let me know every time he spotted someone using our content without promoting our sites. I ended up telling him to just let it go because, the pictures were branded. And, we received about 100 free signups/day just from people stealing our content. So, to me, it was like someone stealing a banner and putting it up. Since then, I have told every program owner I worked with, to take off the restrictions on content use. Using someones content in a way the owner doesn't like is stealing. But, taking off restrictions on free content as long as it is branded is a good business decision.

My head hurts now, I am going to lay down.

[Boogie]

I honestly dont think you folks are stupid enough to not understand this.

When you got the free content it had a terms and conditions? That terms and conditions said, hey, only use this to promote my sites.

If you do anything else you've broken the terms and condition of that agreement.

That's legally and morally wrong. You could use any other thumb on that TGP to promote your little fucking CJ scheme but you're not supposed to use their content to do it with.

Take a look at Nastydollars, for example, and their rules regarding their content.

We have someone at our office that does nothing other than surf the web and TGPs to find webmasters using our content and not following our rules. Violaters and their host are then sent a letter from our lawyer, via certified mail, with a cease and desist. Hosts, especially including free hosts, will always take down the content since they are liable too. If the content is still not taken down the cost per picture and/or movie is $6 per day (so if you have a 25 pic gallery that is costing you $150 per day..it is much easier to just follow the rules). COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT IS AN OPEN AND CLOSED CASE IN COURT AND WE HAVE SUCCESSFULLY PROSECUTED WEBMASTERS THAT HAVE VIOLATED OUR RULES.

IF this was nastydollars (or if you're doing the same with nastydollars, and they find out) you're up shit creek without a paddle.


Why is it so fucking hard to follow the rules of people who provide you with free content? I dont fucking get it.

Just follow the rules, christ. This isnt fucking highschool. You're not being cool by being rebelious. You broke an agreement, you got caught at it, fucking fix the problem and move on.

[Greenguy]

CraK - If you ask if you can borrow my car to go to the store & I say yes, I think it's pretty much implied that I don't want you to rob the store & use my car as the get-away vehicle.

Jim - your back in the day theory falls short because:
1 - the people using your content were not shrinking it down so that you could not see the branding
2 - were not using your content to falsely promote a site the surfer thought was yours

I'm sure we will fight more on the radio tonight

[urb]

I think skimming TGP's with thumb previews are skating on very thin ice.

Why should any sponsor have their material linked to spyware or a link trade?

If you have a TGP with sexually explicit thumb previews then you really need to read 2257 sometime soon.

A year or two down the line, you may even need to keep records for every hardcore banner!

[Cleo]

Skimming using preview thumbs is like me sending some of the traffic that clicks on an ARS banner to MaxCash, just is wrong to do.