Skim bypass fee?

[andrej_NDC]

Originally posted by Greenguy
Think about what you said - why do TGP's, in general, convert so poorly?

they dont you just cant use the same marketing you use for other sources. Each traffic needs a different marketing, I can convert tgp/mgp traffic as good as SE traffic.

[Fonz]

Originally posted by andrej_NDC
I can convert tgp/mgp traffic as good as SE traffic.

Maybe you can write a tutorial about that then for Jim to use in the newsletter

[KCat]

Originally posted by BigJohn
If the book you wrote about public beaches included pictures that are copyrighted, then no... you can't sell it. But that's niether here nor there, your example isn't the same... A closer example would be shareware... you can use it and give it away, but you can't sell it.

If you start allowing TGP's to charge surfers in order to view a paysite's copyrighted pictures just because they're available for free, where does the line get drawn? Can someone then use my "free" images to start a paysite without using the gallery? The images have my URL, so would that be the same? What about images found on usenet, those are free too aren't they?

How about if someone uses the graphics from your TGP and builds their own? The images were shown in public, for free.... is that okay? Of course it isn't.

Yes, as a paysite owner, I would LOVE to have surfers come to my site who have credit cards and are known to have purchased. At the same time, I want to be able to control MY copyrighted materials.

There was a lot of controversy about TGP's skimming thumbnails (using copyrighted images for purposes other than intended), so selling my images without my permissions is okay, but skimming my thumbnail is not?

Are you saying that no affiliate content should ever be used as an upsell in a members area? What about AVS sites?

I can't understand why anyone would want freeloader traffic who either aren't 18 or don't have credit cards versus juicy member traffic.

[BigJohn]

Originally posted by KCat
Are you saying that no affiliate content should ever be used as an upsell in a members area? What about AVS sites?

No, that's not what I'm saying.... there's a difference with a paysite using my content as an upsell... For one thing, the surfer is paying for content that the site shot or purchased and I would suspect that ratio of content that you own/lease far outweighs the amount of gallery content you are using for the upsell.

I can't understand why anyone would want freeloader traffic who either aren't 18 or don't have credit cards versus juicy member traffic.

It's not that I want freeloader traffic, although all traffic is useful for something, and I'd LOVE to have a qualified purchaser verses a freeloader.

Now, tell me why you think it's okay to sell someone elses copyrighted images without permission?

[KCat]

Originally posted by BigJohn
Now, tell me why you think it's okay to sell someone elses copyrighted images without permission?

Selling copyrighted images is stealing. I don't see where I said that at all. As someone who shoots her own content, you can be assured that content theft is important to me.

But charging to turn off a skim should be sending MORE traffic to your galleries, rather than sending them to trade partners. I don't see how this is any different than using affiliate content from within a members area or AVS.

And at the end of the day, if you didn't want your galleries listed on a site that had some kind of subscription fee, you wouldn't submit there. End of story.

[andrej_NDC]

Originally posted by Fonz
Maybe you can write a tutorial about that then for Jim to use in the newsletter

hmm, maybe I could, isnt a problem for me

[Greenguy]

Originally posted by andrej_NDC
they dont you just cant use the same marketing you use for other sources. Each traffic needs a different marketing, I can convert tgp/mgp traffic as good as SE traffic.

You're you're telling me that 50k in hits to a gallery is the same as 50K in hits to a free site, as well as 50K in hits to a keywor or keywords in a SE?

Please, write the article & share with the rest of us

[DangerDave]

Originally posted by andrej_NDC

That's 3!

DD

[andrej_NDC]

Originally posted by Greenguy
You're you're telling me that 50k in hits to a gallery is the same as 50K in hits to a free site, as well as 50K in hits to a keywor or keywords in a SE?

no, I say, 50k hits sent to a sponsor from a gallery, free site and SEs can convert the same.

[BigJohn]

Originally posted by KCat
Selling copyrighted images is stealing. I don't see where I said that at all. As someone who shoots her own content, you can be assured that content theft is important to me.

Glad to hear that KCat, and sorry if I read more into your last statement than was there.

But charging to turn off a skim should be sending MORE traffic to your galleries, rather than sending them to trade partners. I don't see how this is any different than using affiliate content from within a members area or AVS.

The difference is that if you are an affiliate, you are a partner of sorts. You are offering YOUR member (which you attracted with YOUR content) a chance to look at something different. If your paysite or AVS ONLY contained gallery images from other people sites and you don't have permission, then you are charging for copyrighted images and that is what's illegal.

Once you allow someone to use your images on a site that charges to turn off skim you are opening the door for someone to set their skim to 85, 90 or even 100 percent, which virtually guarantees that NOBODY will see your gallery unless they pay. A little wording on the front end to entice purchases before they even get inside and poof... now YOUR content is being SOLD. Granted, your link might still remain on the gallery and you might get sales off of it, but now that you've allowed someone to sell access to your content the doors are wide open for abuse. How far is it from this, to someone deciding that it's okay to use your images they found in a newsgroup, afterall... they have your URL stamped on them so someone could visit your site and purchase?

And at the end of the day, if you didn't want your galleries listed on a site that had some kind of subscription fee, you wouldn't submit there. End of story.

It's true, I don't have to submit my galleries but that doesn't stop someone from using them.... submit to al4a and see how many different TGPs you end up on.

[andrej_NDC]

Originally posted by DangerDave
That's 3!

DD

what are you working on? beside free sites

[Greenguy]

Originally posted by andrej_NDC
no, I say, 50k hits sent to a sponsor from a gallery, free site and SEs can convert the same.

While that is probably true, once you factor in bandwidth - which will be high for the gallery, middle for the free site & low for the SE - then you loose your argument

And I still think the SE traffic would convert the best out of all 3

[Tommy]

Originally posted by BigJohn

It's true, I don't have to submit my galleries but that doesn't stop someone from using them.... submit to al4a and see how many different TGPs you end up on.

then put in a htaacces file to block those other tgps

Thats crazy !!!!
as far as traffic is concerned the more the merrier

nobody is stealing any images

if you make a gallery and put images on your gallery that are free
you cant bitch about people linking to it or about free loaders

look at all the spidered search engines they dont ask your permission to link to your stuff

if your worried about your content getting used for free then dont put it on gallerys

[DangerDave]

andrej,

I dont see where what I am working on has any bearing on anything...

My comment was aimed at the 3 sweeping statments you have made in the last few days.

http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/...threadid=11510
Each traffic needs a different marketing, I can convert tgp/mgp traffic as good as SE traffic.
http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/...threadid=11572
NOT TRUE, how can it be a fault of the sponsor? Chargeback is not a way the member shows he is not satisfied.
http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/...threadid=10954
why when people have 1:500 with ND or any other sponsor who counts 2nd page clicks, they think they have a good ratio and complain about 1:2000 with ccbill? Its the SAME!

All of which differ vastly from current mainstream thinking and practice.

I too would like to know your secret

DD

[DangerDave]

Originally posted by Tommy
then put in a htaacces file to block those other tgps

Thats crazy !!!!
as far as traffic is concerned the more the merrier

nobody is stealing any images

if you make a gallery and put images on your gallery that are free
you cant bitch about people linking to it or about free loaders

Tommy,

That is what I do I redirect every thieving TGP that links my galleries.. (and it's not to a nice place)!

We continually reinforce the fact to new people that traffic is not traffic, and that targetting and marketing is important.


I don't see why it differs for TGP galls?

When I build a gall I submit it to certain places only and I dont want 1400 free-loading TGPs linking too it.

Apart from the fact it is MY work and these fucks do nothing but traffic off other peoples efforts, the majority of their traffic is CJ'd free loading crap 16 yr olds..

DD

[Tommy]

but why is the tgp considered "thieving"
you put the stuff out there
so really when you break it down
your mad because a tgp sent prospective customers to your website ?? and thats thieving

and why are you mad at the surfers they are completly clueless and have no fault in this what so ever

[andrej_NDC]

Originally posted by DangerDave
All of which differ vastly from current mainstream thinking and practice.

I too would like to know your secret

DD

Dave,

Im not an average webmaster, and I know what are the opinions of most webmasters, Im here to tell them, they everything can be better for them than it actually is. Nobody else does. I dealt with tgp, mgp, avs, se, LL and mailer traffic(my own opt-in lists) for the last years. I know that each surfer needs smt else. The tgp/mgp guys are most tough, but when you know what they want, how to get them to subscribe, its a gold mine, because the traffic from this sources is huge. With some good paid spots you can reach easily 1M of traffic each day. Its not a problem to make a gallery with 15-25% CTR for me and still have a good ratio, I dont use any blind links. But as for second page clicks, everything worse than 1:300 is bad, because when you get the people to visit the paysite and then to go even to the 2nd page, which is mostly pre-filled join page, and you dont get a sale from 300 people, then smt is wrong with the join page. A good join page is at least 50% of the success but not enough sponsors get it. Im promoting only sites with good theme, high quality content, good tours and good join page. There are not as many out there, and mostly smaller sized or middle companies own them. Sometimes I wonder what crap some top companies produce, but people still keep promoting them just because of the fact, they are famous. And then complain that they dont convert. That was all what I tried to say in the previous threads. ))

relax and take it easy


oh and BTW, Jim: as for the hosting, yes, you have a bigger bill from tgp/mgp traffic, but you can also make much more sales and when you do high volume, 10-20-30Tb, the price per GB is few cents, so when you compare that to other traffic, there is not such difference, 5-10% of the income should be hosting expenses.

[kristian]

Originally posted by Tommy
but why is the tgp considered "thieving"
you put the stuff out there
so really when you break it down
your mad because a tgp sent prospective customers to your website ?? and thats thieving

and why are you mad at the surfers they are completly clueless and have no fault in this what so ever

I agree with Tommy, but think I can see DD's point. I think DD means that he's filtered his tgp traffic, via submitting to the relevant sites, and resents tgp-linkers diluting his filtering system (with what he considers to be crappy cj traffic).

But I'm with Tommy on this. Traffic is traffic. The more the merrier. Mass traffic is not as good as filtered traffic but, given hosting prices, it is still better to have more of it than less.

I'd also agree with Andrej's statment about tgp converting as good as SE. It depends on what and how you promote, and requires tgp filtering, but it can be done...

[BigJohn]

Originally posted by Tommy
then put in a htaacces file to block those other tgps

Thats crazy !!!!
as far as traffic is concerned the more the merrier

nobody is stealing any images

if you make a gallery and put images on your gallery that are free
you cant bitch about people linking to it or about free loaders

look at all the spidered search engines they dont ask your permission to link to your stuff

if your worried about your content getting used for free then dont put it on gallerys

We're not talking about TGPs showing galleries, we're talking about the notion of a TGP putting up a paysite front end and CHARGING to see galleries filled with copyrighted images. Are you saying that this is okay?

[DangerDave]

Originally posted by Tommy
but why is the tgp considered "thieving"
you put the stuff out there
so really when you break it down
your mad because a tgp sent prospective customers to your website ?? and thats thieving

and why are you mad at the surfers they are completly clueless and have no fault in this what so ever

Tommy,

Your site is popular ? why?

Because of the "quality" of the content(links) that you supply to your surfers.. yes?

Well if the little newbie that got told to build a CJ TGP as their first site.. use my galleries to "enhance" his site.. that is him using my work to make himself money. I deliberately chose NOT to submit to him but he "takes" my gallery and uses it.. That IMO is thieving!


I don't put my stuff out there.. I put it in certain places only, and those places are based on my (now somewhat lengthy)experience, trials, and tests.


Tommy, if they actually sent customers...... why would I redirect them?? Even I am not that stupid.

When my galls get picked up by some "big taffic" TGP and I see a spike in hits and BW... I also look at sales and if sales are unchanged.. then the assumption can be safely made that that traffic is NOT bringing me sales. Therefore I don't want that traffic.


I never said I was "mad" at surfers.. it is the thieving TGP owners I don't like.

DD

[andrej_NDC]

Originally posted by BigJohn
We're not talking about TGPs showing galleries, we're talking about the notion of a TGP putting up a paysite front end and CHARGING to see galleries filled with copyrighted images. Are you saying that this is okay?

its pretty common, webmasters already use sponsor free content to create AVS sites and thats the same, not? They earn money from the AVS sale(sponsor doesnt) and then also on sponsor upsells. Yes, maybe not all sponsors allow this, but most of them do.

[BigJohn]

Originally posted by DangerDave
Well if the little newbie that got told to build a CJ TGP as their first site.. use my galleries to "enhance" his site.. that is him using my work to make himself money. I deliberately chose NOT to submit to him but he "takes" my gallery and uses it.. That IMO is thieving!

Now go the next step.... The TGP owner decides to set his skim at 85, 90 or 100% and then charges the surfer a membership fee to have the skim turned off so they can see your gallery.

[Tommy]

Originally posted by BigJohn
We're not talking about TGPs showing galleries, we're talking about the notion of a TGP putting up a paysite front end and CHARGING to see galleries filled with copyrighted images. Are you saying that this is okay?

yes that is ok!!!!

the images are on your domain, so what difference does any copyright make


if you dont like it...... then dont submit it
either way your copyright has no bearing on this sitation

[DangerDave]

Sorry bigJohn,

I think we have two threads going on here..

Gallery "borrowing/thieving"

and

Charge for non-skim


I was discussing the former.

DD

[Tommy]

we are talking about charging for a non skim

no ??