Index doorway trick (or some magic :)

[neveremail]

Looks like another difficult choice.

Probably changing the text on the different doorway pages is the best method. Just means the whole making and submitting process will be longer

But i suppose it means both LLs and SEs are happy. (well i guess SEs wont be happy but their spiders should not notice). Just more work for free site creaters.

[SortLinks]

Originally Posted by Jeremy

Google has this URL in it's DB & look at the "Google Cache of":

http://www.japamor.com/sites/teen/teenblondefingering/

which would be whatever the default index page is on the server.

My guess is Google's trying to be "intelligent" about people looking for blah.com/ndex.html or blah.com/index.htm and defaults to blah.com/ if it has it.

I think it caches default page.
the one that is first exist in .htaccees directive:

"Directory index index.html index.htm index.php "
and the one which of course appears after "/" by default

[SortLinks]

Originally Posted by neveremail

Looks like another difficult choice.
Just more work for free site creaters.

For fair free site creators I would say
Cheaters are not affected this way.

[neveremail]

Originally Posted by SortLinks

For fair free site creators I would say
Cheaters are not affected this way.

I agree!

but i think (or would hope) that in the end fair free site creaters will get thier reward. Link lists and SEs hate cheaters and try to get rid of them - they may get away for it for a while but its short lived and if they focused as much time on trying to make a genuine site rather than how to trick SEs and LLs they would do better

Just my two cents (but going off on a tangent a bit)

[SortLinks]

Another guy played with sortlinks.com
http://www.free-nudrelds-links.com/f...lon/index.html (default, cached, no recip)
http://www.free-nudrelds-links.com/f...ylon/index.htm (doorway recip but not cached)
do you know him?
here is his msg after my request:
"Hi!
I have two pages such as index.htm and index.html with different
recips. Why the google shows other page, I don't know. I have usual
free site and scriptless hosting. Write me, if you don't want to work with me, and my software remove all your recips. Did you check my other sites?"

guys, any comments?

[neveremail]

Seems to me like an intentional way to cheat. Dont waste your time with it, band him and move on, there are plenty of genuine submitters out there.

[Jel]

I have posted a couple of times now and killed all threads I have posed the question - mirrored directories - ok so the index is changed with recips etc. but theres still at least another 3 pages in that folder that are being duplicated exactly many times over if for example you sub to 200 LLs.

What is the reasoning that all html must be in the same folder? Why can the mirrored directories not contain only the index.html and link to the original mainpage? On a freesite no-one links back to the warning page from the main or gallery pages, so I can't work out what the benefits or reasoning that all html must be in the same folder and cant just jump from

/freesite/foldera/index.html
/freesite/folderb/index.html
/freesite/folderc/index.html
/freesite/folderd/index.html
back to

/freesite/mainpage.html

If it's because of something to with more content in the same folder, then wouldn't google penalise for the dupe pages in those folders and thus penalise the folder itself, making that concept flawed? What am I not seeing or just plain ignorant on

Anyone able to enlighten me before I go nuts lol ?

[RawAlex]

My idea is this:

If you want to submit to 120 link sites, make 10 folders. Copy your entire site (less the images) into each folder. Now, change the return links in 9 of them, and also change the meta tags, title tags, and perhaps use a different warning text on each one. Always use different warnings with different returns (so they are not the same over and over on different domains).

ta-da. You now have 10 completely different sites without all that much effort, and they are all different, and google will likely pick up every one of them.

Think past the end of your nose.

Alex

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by Jel

I have posted a couple of times now and killed all threads I have posed the question - mirrored directories - ok so the index is changed with recips etc. but theres still at least another 3 pages in that folder that are being duplicated exactly many times over if for example you sub to 200 LLs.

What is the reasoning that all html must be in the same folder? Why can the mirrored directories not contain only the index.html and link to the original mainpage? On a freesite no-one links back to the warning page from the main or gallery pages, so I can't work out what the benefits or reasoning that all html must be in the same folder and cant just jump from

/freesite/foldera/index.html
/freesite/folderb/index.html
/freesite/folderc/index.html
/freesite/folderd/index.html
back to

/freesite/mainpage.html

If it's because of something to with more content in the same folder, then wouldn't google penalise for the dupe pages in those folders and thus penalise the folder itself, making that concept flawed? What am I not seeing or just plain ignorant on

Anyone able to enlighten me before I go nuts lol ?

Jel, a bunch of doorways that lead to a single inside site would almost certainly (1) piss google off, and (2) lead to little or no return traffic to the link sites giving you the links.

It is normal that only the root doorway will be listed, not the other doorways. So the guys on the other doorways get, well, weak soup.

Alex

[Bill]

If you guys think google is fooled by having the same site in different folders with indexes, you are nuts.

Fuck all you little linklist owners with your wacky rules and your ego trips.

Next month you'll want a blowjob with your submission, for your crappy hit a day.

[Useless]

I think I'm getting to be known as pretty damned anal as far as reviewing and declining for minor shit goes, but I pay very, very little attention to directory structure and page naming schemes. I don't see the big deal here. I review for the surfer first. If the surfer is happy, the list will grow.

[neveremail]

I've found that with each mirror in its own complete directory and changing the text completely on all pages in each page of the freesite (meta tags, title, content on pages, the lot) that I still got hit hard for duplicate content. To be fair its only one site so only expect one result in SEs for it. I decided it was best to spend the time making new freesites.


I dont really know why the LL owners want wach site in thier own directory I just do it. But I would really like to find out why.

[DJilla]

Originally Posted by neveremail

I've found that with each mirror in its own complete directory and changing the text completely on all pages in each page of the freesite (meta tags, title, content on pages, the lot) that I still got hit hard for duplicate content..

IMHO this isn't possible. If your really doing what you describe above then you no longer have duplicate pages... bottom line. Spiders only see what you give them they aren't psychic.

[DJilla]

Originally Posted by DJilla

IMHO this isn't possible. Spiders only see what you give them they aren't psychic.

Let me correct this, the only remote possibility (remote) that you're getting hit for dup content would be because your not changing the alt tags. Since a freesite is mostly pics on the content side, try changing those too. Will also give you a chance to experiment with new keywords.

[neveremail]

Originally Posted by DJilla

Let me correct this, the only remote possibility (remote) that you're getting hit for dup content would be because your not changing the alt tags. Since a freesite is mostly pics on the content side, try changing those too. Will also give you a chance to experiment with new keywords.

That is true - I dont think I did change the alt tags. Still I think its best just to spend the time making a new freesite rather than changing the text, meta tags, alt tags etc on a number of different mirrors.

[ArtWilliams]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Some people copy only the index page and put it in a subdirectory, then link it back to a single main page, but jumping directories can get you rejected at some lists.

I did that recently and got turned down at several big lists and I have decided to go back to having multiple directories. As a free site builder I want to standardize my work and make my templates easy to use and not have to change them all the time. It's easier just to put everything in a directory and duplicate it as UW shows.

---art

[Sean416]

Originally Posted by Bill

If you guys think google is fooled by having the same site in different folders with indexes, you are nuts.

Fuck all you little linklist owners with your wacky rules and your ego trips.

Next month you'll want a blowjob with your submission, for your crappy hit a day.

I agree.

I dont think index.htm/index.html is a big deal at all. I mean what's with all u Link List owners who think being on a mirror page is so terrible? You really expect these submitters to put you on an index if you're sending minimal traffic? When I used to submit freesites I would do it like this:

freesite/index.html
freesite/index.htm
freesite/warning.html
freesite/warning.htm
freesite/enter.html
freesite/enter.htm

freeesite/main-page.html

freesite/gallery-1.html
freesite/gallery-2.html

there's nothing wrong with the above.

http://www.unlimitedfreegalleries.co...ig-booty-hoes/

http://www.unlimitedfreegalleries.co...disclaimer.htm

They're both cached, they both received traffic and they're both giving the surfer what they want. Anybody who owns a LL that isn't hoes.com, link-o-rama.com, penisbot.com etc and always want to be on an index is dilusional IMO and people will just stop submitting to you, rather then change how freesites are made.

[neveremail]

Originally Posted by Sean416

I agree.

I dont think index.htm/index.html is a big deal at all. I mean what's with all u Link List owners who think being on a mirror page is so terrible? You really expect these submitters to put you on an index if you're sending minimal traffic? When I used to submit freesites I would do it like this:

freesite/index.html
freesite/index.htm
freesite/warning.html
freesite/warning.htm
freesite/enter.html
freesite/enter.htm

freeesite/main-page.html

freesite/gallery-1.html
freesite/gallery-2.html

there's nothing wrong with the above.

http://www.unlimitedfreegalleries.co...ig-booty-hoes/

http://www.unlimitedfreegalleries.co...disclaimer.htm

They're both cached, they both received traffic and they're both giving the surfer what they want. Anybody who owns a LL that isn't hoes.com, link-o-rama.com, penisbot.com etc and always want to be on an index is dilusional IMO and people will just stop submitting to you, rather then change how freesites are made.

I think its best to do it the standard way with the html from each mirror site in its own directory.
I use advanced submitter to help make the mirrors which makes it pretty easy. It takes me about 5 extra mins to do it that way. So for 5 minutes work why cut off all that extra traffic and linkbacks from the smaller link sites.

I'm not to sure why they have the rule but its their site, I want the link backs and traffic (however small it is) so I follow their rules. That extra five mins of effort really is worth it for those extra link backs and traffic. Submitting to the smaller LLs atleast triples my total traffic compared to just submitting to the top 10.

[SortLinks]

Sean.... I wont argue with you..Do it if you wish..
But these LLs have rules and its easy to follow em
Upon my experience ... artwilliams is right.
Just try
site1/folder1
site1/folder2
site1/folder3
you will be surprised getting accepted much faster and more often
Dont be surprised if your cached pages will lose PR very soon as well as index. (see below)

BTW the second page does not seem to be cached for me already
Besides..Your recip "More Porn For Me!" on these pages reminds me sortlinks'...AND I dont think it is a coincidence ))

What do you say?

[SortLinks]

nevermail...words of wisdom.

[DJilla]

Originally Posted by SortLinks

I think it caches default page.
the one that is first exist in .htaccees directive:

Though I only have recently starting posting, I've been around this biz for more than year watching, learning, listening. Here are a couple thoughts with all due respect to those it affects.
Its an old bitch between submitters and LL's who want to be on the index.html page. Other than about 12 - 15 LL's, most don't DESERVE to be on the html page... period and those that INSIST on it are petty. Check your server records and if they don't send traffic ask for hardlink exchange somewhere and DUMP them saving yourelf time on the submits they'll come around eventually.
If a LL on its rules page insists on index.html placement, he gets what he asks for, and then the submitter is clever enough to use htaccess to get around it (I would never do this and I really don't know why anyone would, where's the benefit, just piss people off?) then it seems to me a bargain was made and kept and there shouldn't be any crying later. A deal is deal. Stand up. Besides, a majority of webmasters I've seen (most new ones less than a year or so) don't even know what or how to use htaccess.
http://www.freewebmasterhelp.com/tutorials/htaccess/
More importantly think about the long term. Its not just clicks now, its PR later too. Any page with inbound links from decent sites is going to gain PR. I've done searches and often found several pages from the same site in the results. I almost always check these out on the thought that there must be something there if so many pages are indexed (they will be indexed if you change your content around and work keywords). PR benefit accruses to the LL' too regardless where the pages are or what they end in and actually PR benefit to an LL is greater because the inbound link is usually focused on a category page.
Finally, for submitters making doorwways, I recommend making them logical and intuitive:

yoursite/teens/jan/
yoursite/anal/feb/

or

yoursite/tits/0065a
yoursite/milfs/0065b

and then sticking an index page into the
teens, anal, tits, milfs, directory. This is because surfers (especially porn surfers) are pretty clever themselves and if they like your pages they'll keep digging and just delete off the page id and try and peek into the directory. Your index will come up and you can keep them longer and maybe sell them.
Finally, its really about your site 'cause they'll check that out too and if its quality maybe even bookmark it and come back, and back. I've found that really most of my sales come from my site pages which brought surfers in from a free site submit.
You don't have to and shouldn't just rely on free site sales. If you're not equipped to be here for years then you shouldn't even try. Properly contstructed doorway content (all pages except maybe the pics directory) should be in its own directory, new text, reordered keywords, etc. because there is also going to be a "content size" benefit from the SE's regardless of the placement of that particular page in search. In otherwords you will get a slight ding of your overall sites importance from SE's on the basis of your total site size. IMHO

[neveremail]

Originally Posted by DJilla

Though I only have recently starting posting, I've been around this biz for more than year watching, learning, listening. Here are a couple thoughts with all due respect to those it affects.
Its an old bitch between submitters and LL's who want to be on the index.html page. Other than about 12 - 15 LL's, most don't DESERVE to be on the html page... period and those that INSIST on it are petty. Check your server records and if they don't send traffic ask for hardlink exchange somewhere and DUMP them saving yourelf time on the submits they'll come around eventually.
If a LL on its rules page insists on index.html placement, he gets what he asks for, and then the submitter is clever enough to use htaccess to get around it (I would never do this and I really don't know why anyone would, where's the benefit, just piss people off?) then it seems to me a bargain was made and kept and there shouldn't be any crying later. A deal is deal. Stand up. Besides, a majority of webmasters I've seen (most new ones less than a year or so) don't even know what or how to use htaccess.
http://www.freewebmasterhelp.com/tutorials/htaccess/
More importantly think about the long term. Its not just clicks now, its PR later too. Any page with inbound links from decent sites is going to gain PR. I've done searches and often found several pages from the same site in the results. I almost always check these out on the thought that there must be something there if so many pages are indexed (they will be indexed if you change your content around and work keywords). PR benefit accruses to the LL' too regardless where the pages are or what they end in and actually PR benefit to an LL is greater because the inbound link is usually focused on a category page.
Finally, for submitters making doorwways, I recommend making them logical and intuitive:

yoursite/teens/jan/
yoursite/anal/feb/

or

yoursite/tits/0065a
yoursite/milfs/0065b

and then sticking an index page into the
teens, anal, tits, milfs, directory. This is because surfers (especially porn surfers) are pretty clever themselves and if they like your pages they'll keep digging and just delete off the page id and try and peek into the directory. Your index will come up and you can keep them longer and maybe sell them.
Finally, its really about your site 'cause they'll check that out too and if its quality maybe even bookmark it and come back, and back. I've found that really most of my sales come from my site pages which brought surfers in from a free site submit.
You don't have to and shouldn't just rely on free site sales. If you're not equipped to be here for years then you shouldn't even try. Properly contstructed doorway content (all pages except maybe the pics directory) should be in its own directory, new text, reordered keywords, etc. because there is also going to be a "content size" benefit from the SE's regardless of the placement of that particular page in search. In otherwords you will get a slight ding of your overall sites importance from SE's on the basis of your total site size. IMHO

Personally I dont see the point in wasting time changing keywords, text alt tags etc on all freesite mirrors making them appear unique to SEs because that time could be spent making your next properly unique freesite. The time it takes you to rewrite say 4 mirrors you probably could have made 3 more new freesites. Thats just the way I see it. I do think it is a good idea but from a time management perspective it doesn't really seem worth it. Thats just me though

The only time i feel it would be worth it is if SEs start to penalize your whole site for excessive duplicate content rather than just giving your duplicate freesites one representative listing. But I have not seen any strong evidence for this as yet.

[Linkster]

Here's my opinion if ya want it
Bill and Sean are both correct - it doesnt make a fuck how you do the mirrors - if Google was really looking that closely it would be a big deal - but they arent. Second, I have submitted free sites for years where I use the index.htm and the index.html in the same folder - sometimes the .htm version gets a good listing a year later sometimes its the root and sometimes its the warning.htm - but even more important and this seems to be lost these days among free site submitters - the site you want to get into Google and other SEs is a completely different page than what the LLs will allow - you would want to get something into the SEs thats a little more aggressive in my opinion.

I guess what it boils down to is that most people are putting way too much weight on worrying about SEs and how they react to little 4 page free sites built in a half an hour - thats really not the purpose - the free sites are for LLs. More important - if a LL wont accept sites without their recip being on an index.html page - Id start submitting somewhere else as they really dont understand SEs and that might hurt you in the long run.

[Sean416]

Originally Posted by SortLinks

Sean.... I wont argue with you..Do it if you wish..

I'm not arguing with anyone, take it easy. I dont submit freesites anymore. I'm just offering my opinoin on things so submitters to my LL know that I dont care about this.

Originally Posted by SortLinks

But these LLs have rules and its easy to follow em
Upon my experience ... artwilliams is right.
Just try
site1/folder1
site1/folder2
site1/folder3
you will be surprised getting accepted much faster and more often
Dont be surprised if your cached pages will lose PR very soon as well as index. (see below)

No, because most larger LLs don't allow you to go back in folders or switch folders. They want the entire site in one folder. The only viable option to get listed on most LLs would be to make completely different pages and just link to the images in the root freesite folder. But that would be heavy dupe content and thus not worth it to submit to smaller LLs at all. More people will just end up submitting to the biggest 15 or whatever LLs. So your rule rule, IMO, is alienating you. That's why I decided to make my post.

Originally Posted by SortLinks

Besides..Your recip "More Porn For Me!" on these pages reminds me sortlinks'...AND I dont think it is a coincidence ))

What do you say?

I made those recips in april of 2004. I hadnt even heard of SortLinks so don't flatter yourself. My new recips were made in February 2005 when I completely redesigned my site.

[Bill]

I think it's time to move to allowing more recips on a submitted free site.

I've been thinking about this for a while. Making many multiple doorways with 9 recips each hurts everyone in the long run.

I'd be willing to sacrifice the third sales link on the index page in exchange for the effectiveness of having, for example, 24 text recips on that page.

Linklists should benefit from the arrangement, because it will increase the variety of potential _new_ surfers and length of time that their recips might attract a few _new_ surfers to their list.

It should be better for gaining search engine traffic for both the linklists and the freesite builders.