Anybody remember this thread?

[Ramster]

I'm pointing out that I am building and submitting and making money. Submitted 2 TGP galleries today so far and am going to work on a blog shortly while everyone is on here worrying about what SOMEONE ELSE is doing.

We all agree however that some sites have questionable content and/or site titles.

[babymaker]

i don't believe in censorship or judging other's too much lol( if i hate a mutherfucker i hate them lol) but i too had a problem with that site when i saw the board change and checked it out just casually, i went again after all the controversy and watched the first free sample clip??? isin't that considered rape and illegal in most if not all states?? an unconcious girl being fucked against her will??? i understand it's fantasy but i can't promote that, i understand also that what i promote creampie can be considered by some to be immororal, but it is consensual, i don't want to be hated or blacklisted and i am not judging anyone, but to me it seemed not approriate. so while it seems as if we are voting here in a way, i put my vote for no, i am sorry, not like anyone needs my traffic but the line has to be drawn somewhere and while we are under extreme media scrutinty(while that should not be the reason!) it would seem this is an even worse time for a site such as this, not that i would believe that there ever would be one.

[deleuze]

A few points:

1) The site in question is not illegal;
2) Many if not the majority of people who get off on rape fantasies are women;
3) The site in question unlike some others that have been discussed here before does a very poor job at appealing to those with rape fantasies as there is no confrontation, no struggle, and no realized violation. The only people who I can see it appealing to are misogynists with no active fantasy life.
4) Still nobody has answered the question why a person or company promoting something controversial will be either blindly ostracized or accepted into the community based on what the gods deem worthy. I came here for some lunch-time drama yesterday expecting everyone to tell this newest rage to fuck off and putting their sites on an elite blacklist. This was based on how I've seen you devour other people with similar sites. Insitead I discover people here have just a short of memory as all the idiots at other boards they love to disparage. Boring.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by deleuze

A few points:

1) The site in question is not illegal;...

I was gonna try a different angle, but I just realized something. You don't have a problem with Rage Cash, do you?

You're problem is with Jim & me, correct?

[deleuze]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

You're problem is with Jim & me, correct?

Not necessarily Jim & you but the way the board in general in the past has treated people affiliated with these types of sites. I really fail to see the difference between what RageCash is offering and other rape sites that have been around forever. The adult community and this board in particular has always gone out of their way to place the owners of these sites in the same class as pedophiles and now RageCash comes along and everyone is backing off saying well so long as it's legal to each his own . . . I'm not here to judge.

[Greenguy]

deluze - so the entire argument that they wake up & enjoy the sex OR that it's a dream the girl is having is not good enough for you?

[Robbo]

I was`nt going to post when I saw this thread start but I guess I will. I was surprised when I saw the sites in question. Don`t like it and won`t promote it. But I won`t judge either. We have too much of that in this country at this time. Life imitates art and that would be some imitation we could do without. Then you could say the sites are art imitating life. But then they take that argument for cp too. I guess I`m just chiming in on the verbal poll.

[Agent]

Debating is good but the hostility is creeping in.

I don't care for the three or four threads dedicated to it though. I've already made my decision on the issue.

[MrYum]

Originally Posted by ADK

Debating is good but the hostility is creeping in.

I don't care for the three or four threads dedicated to it though. I've already made my decision on the issue.

Exactly

We all have our own views and are hopefully intelligent to make our own decisions.

Beyond that...it's

[susanna]

Originally Posted by MrYum

Exactly

We all have our own views and are hopefully intelligent to make our own decisions.

Beyond that...it's

I think I will go make another thread...let me see....what will I call it...

hmmm how about "multiple threads get more complaints then rape site"?

Official note...those of you that have already made up your mind, firm, no one is going to change it with views you may not have thought of....its not necessary to post that as we understand that to be a given.

Those that are still debating it and thinking about it, feel free to post something constructive.

[Agent]

Originally Posted by susanna

I think I will go make another thread...let me see....what will I call it...

hmmm how about "multiple threads get more complaints then rape site"?

Official note...those of you that have already made up your mind, firm, no one is going to change it with views you may not have thought of....its not necessary to post that as we understand that to be a given.

Those that are still debating it and thinking about it, feel free to post something constructive.

I take it you make the assumption that I am in disagreement with the point you're trying to make.

Even if I agree with you %100 my support is worth nothing because we disagree on the number of threads it takes to make a point.

I didn't know we had Republicans in Canada.

[susanna]

Originally Posted by ADK

I take it you make the assumption that I am in disagreement with the point you're trying to make.

Even if I agree with you %100 my support is worth nothing because we disagree on the number of threads it takes to make a point.

I didn't know we had Republicans in Canada.

I take it you think I was talking to you?

We could do this till New Years if you like. The pionts are what matters.

Good post Gramma

[Ms Naughty]

Hmmm
A few final thoughts:

1. The board still looks good blue. Would be better if it was purple.

2. The money wins in the end. But then we're porn webmasters, so that's not surprising really. Everyone still makes their own decision according to their conscience. If people are happy to promote nasty shit like Bangbus, they're probably fine with this, and I think it's a bit of a shame, really. Ah well. I'll just continue to do what I do, everyone else will do what they do. I can only try to make my own part of the web more female-friendly and sex positive.

3. I'm also saddened by some of the misogynist comments I've read here and in other threads. Things got kind of nasty, and that's disappointing.

4. The issue is still CONSENT. Don't most of us operate under the idea that anything is OK as long as it's safe and consensual?

5. When Sleep Assault becomes "Sleep Fantasy" and the tour text makes it clear it's all a fantasy, and when the women in the pics are shown to wake up or have orgasms or be generally OK with it, well, then I'll be prepared to accept the arguments that fantasy is what the site is about. Until then, it's a rape site. There's no consent apparent, so it's sexual assault.

6. Either that or all those lovely sites with violence and guns pointed to the head are just "fantasy" sites as well. I'm not prepared to accept that argument, so that's where I stand with this whole thing.

7. Maybe it's all a good thing. These kinds of extreme sites will keep the conservatives happy with their obscenity charges, so the rest of us promoting consensual things might be left alone. Is it a vain hope? LOL

Right. I've posted when I really shouldn't have, now I'm going away for a few days.

Perhaps the board will be green again when I come back.

[Wenchy]

Okay, so I've read through this thread (and I think a couple of others that were related) and I've come up with the following:

1. It is not my place to decide what is ethical, moral, or proper for others. IMO, what some are labeling "unethical" should more correctly be termed "personally distasteful". I wasn't aware that the porn industry had developed a code of ethics... why didn't I get that memo, UW?... and even if one did exist, it certainly wouldn't be my job to enforce it. Those who support RageCash have their very good reasons for doing so, and those who don't... well, ditto. Add to the mix the issues of individual comfort zones and numerous unique business models, and the plethora of differing opinions shouldn't be suprising to anyone.

2. Do I think using the word "assault" in a massively-publicized porn site is a good idea? Do I think promoting a site by even remotely insinuating rape scenarios is a good idea? Do I think the sponsor in question would stand a snowball's chance in hell of standing up to legal and/or governmental scrutiny of their site? Not in the current political climate, no. But guess what... I don't have to pay their lawyers, so it's really none of my damned business.

3. I personally don't promote "vanilla" sites at all... teen, amateur, Asian... BOOOORING! That having been said, if I refused to use a sponsor simply because I possess that particular OPINION (keeping in mind that it is my right to run my business the way I see fit!), I'd have no one to promote at all, as I have yet to come across a sponsor who isn't busting at the seams with "vanilla"! I don't think it's right or fair to judge a sponsor simply by the content of one site, especially if they have others that really appeal to you or fit into your business model. Whatever each of us decides to to, it is a PERSONAL CHOICE, and there's really no logical reason to tell anyone else about it... all that does is put you in the unpleasant position of having to justify your reasoning and/or rationale.

4. I am comfortable with the idea that GG and Jim had their reasons for accepting RageCash as a board sponsor. Whether or not I agree with those reasons or their decision is a moot point... I don't pay their bills either. Oh yeah... and it's none of my damned business.

5. I've seen enough righteous indignation in this thread alone to last me a lifetime, but it's all based on emotion, personal opinion, and the above-mentioned comfort zones. To each his own, live and let live, blah blah blah. It's not like we as an industry have ever been able to agree on anything else... why should we be expected to start now?

NOTE: The fact that I did not indicate one way or the other my feelings regarding RageCash or their site was deliberate and I won't be elaborating on it further... see, you don't pay MY bills and it's none of your damned business!

[susanna]

Ahhh but we have been able to agree on the words "young" "virgin" and anything with kids in it.

99% of the time we can also agree that rape is not acceptable.

The issue is whether the site in question is a rape site or not. It has nothing to do with imposing anyones ethics or ideas on others. It has nothing to do with wanting everyone to boycott the sponsor or all of the other sites.

It has everything to do with this one site crossing the line into something that not one person here agrees should be good for our industry.

No one pays my bills either but like it or not every other business out there has the potential to destroy my income in adult by making poor judgements. We stampede over someone that uses kids keywords (especially keys that attract kids that are not porn related etc) What is the difference with a site that pretends its not about rape and non-consentual sex?

Not sure what part of non-consentual you are not understanding Wenchy.

Originally Posted by Wenchy

Okay, so I've read through this thread (and I think a couple of others that were related) and I've come up with the following:

1. It is not my place to decide what is ethical, moral, or proper for others. IMO, what some are labeling "unethical" should more correctly be termed "personally distasteful". I wasn't aware that the porn industry had developed a code of ethics... why didn't I get that memo, UW?... and even if one did exist, it certainly wouldn't be my job to enforce it. Those who support RageCash have their very good reasons for doing so, and those who don't... well, ditto. Add to the mix the issues of individual comfort zones and numerous unique business models, and the plethora of differing opinions shouldn't be suprising to anyone.

2. Do I think using the word "assault" in a massively-publicized porn site is a good idea? Do I think promoting a site by even remotely insinuating rape scenarios is a good idea? Do I think the sponsor in question would stand a snowball's chance in hell of standing up to legal and/or governmental scrutiny of their site? Not in the current political climate, no. But guess what... I don't have to pay their lawyers, so it's really none of my damned business.

3. I personally don't promote "vanilla" sites at all... teen, amateur, Asian... BOOOORING! That having been said, if I refused to use a sponsor simply because I possess that particular OPINION (keeping in mind that it is my right to run my business the way I see fit!), I'd have no one to promote at all, as I have yet to come across a sponsor who isn't busting at the seams with "vanilla"! I don't think it's right or fair to judge a sponsor simply by the content of one site, especially if they have others that really appeal to you or fit into your business model. Whatever each of us decides to to, it is a PERSONAL CHOICE, and there's really no logical reason to tell anyone else about it... all that does is put you in the unpleasant position of having to justify your reasoning and/or rationale.

4. I am comfortable with the idea that GG and Jim had their reasons for accepting RageCash as a board sponsor. Whether or not I agree with those reasons or their decision is a moot point... I don't pay their bills either. Oh yeah... and it's none of my damned business.

5. I've seen enough righteous indignation in this thread alone to last me a lifetime, but it's all based on emotion, personal opinion, and the above-mentioned comfort zones. To each his own, live and let live, blah blah blah. It's not like we as an industry have ever been able to agree on anything else... why should we be expected to start now?

NOTE: The fact that I did not indicate one way or the other my feelings regarding RageCash or their site was deliberate and I won't be elaborating on it further... see, you don't pay MY bills and it's none of your damned business!

[Halfdeck]

If this was a simple moral question of whether or not I should promote a rape site, the answer is clearly and easily no. But for many of us, that's not really the question. We're asking ourselves how much money will Rage Cash make me and is there anything to be gained by second-guessing other people's business decisions.

It's like asking people whether you should take a wallet someone else dropped stuffed with hundred dollar bills or report it lost to the cops. If you ask a beggar he'll tell you without hesitation you'll be crazy not to keep the money. If you ask a rich guy, he might tell you he won't even bother bending over to pick it off the ground.

As for me, I'll pass on Rage Cash. I have over 260 sponsors I'm signed up with and I have enough work as it is trying to promote just a handful of them.

[Linkster]

Originally Posted by Wenchy

I don't think it's right or fair to judge a sponsor simply by the content of one site, especially if they have others that really appeal to you or fit into your business model. Whatever each of us decides to to, it is a PERSONAL CHOICE, and there's really no logical reason to tell anyone else about it... all that does is put you in the unpleasant position of having to justify your reasoning and/or rationale.
5. I've seen enough righteous indignation in this thread alone to last me a lifetime, but it's all based on emotion, personal opinion, and the above-mentioned comfort zones.

I put a little extra in the quote above (not in order) as two points you were making I think run along the same lines as what the original poster was trying to point out - the fact that the picking and choosing of what is "ok" sometimes tends to be a little hypocritical - and sometimes defies logic as well as brings out emotions and unpleasentness that shouldnt really be a part of the discussion - almost with a "crowd effect"

I can think of additional cases where this happened involving a sponsor that has many paysites but one tended to rub some the wrong way - so they chose to not push that sponsor as well as be rather nasty to their rep here - and yet now they are shocked when it happens to one of their own sponsors.

The choices you mention will always be an option to everyone no matter what some would have you believe - but I have to agree with the original post's point and think it would be a good time to reevaluate how certain people approach their discussions - not saying that speaking your mind is a wrong thing (I would be awfully hypocritical myself if I said that LOL) but coming out swinging with little or no respect for board members is not something I would want to be remembered for.

[DannyCox]

It really comes down to "promote what you are comfortable promoting".

Over the years, I have had a large conscience on my shoulder...that conscience's name is Carol! Unlike many here, all we have every really promoted is "Vanilla Sex", mainly of the Amateur variety, and have done very, very well with it. Luckily, we never had the need to promote the more Gonzo stuff out there.

Because of Carol, we have rarely promoted "Teen Sites" (although, in honesty, I have slipped a few in as favours to friends) as she just isn't comfortable promoting girls under 21. Again, that is her choice. We would not promote the RageCash site in question, but I wouldn't tarnish their entire program due to one website either. As the old saying goes, "To each his/her own", and we do what we are willing to do, for ourselves.

Jim & GG can't be held accountable for anything here. They are promoting a program, and not the individual websites. It really isn't their job to police all the sites, as we are all big people who can make our own decisions. It's up to the webmasters to decide what sites, if any, they are willing to promote.

[Jim]

Danny
Has Carol ever done any fantasy sleep sex stuff? Just curious...

[DannyCox]

Originally Posted by Jim

Danny
Has Carol ever done any fantasy sleep sex stuff? Just curious...

The only thing we ever did involving "sleep" is a Short Story pictorial where Carol was "dreaming" about a Lesbian Orgy

Other than that, no, we never have.

I do want to point out that personally, I am not against most things, even things that just don't work for me. As long as it fits within my personal moral code (which is different for us all), I'm fine with whatever anyone else is doing. I fully understand the eroticism of "Fantasy Rape", as we have played that game ourselves, and with other people. And like Jim, I have also "snuck a poke" while Carol was sleeping.

My main concern about all this is legalities. In the US, you have to deal with 2257, in Canada, we have to deal with images of "non-consensual sex". Ultimately, everything we do, either in life or with our websites, comes down to personal choice.

[stuveltje]

all have their own choise(did i write that right) to promoot what they want nobody is forched to promoot stuff they dont wanna promoot, nobody is the same, your happy with what you promoot well do it, who cares what others think? Not happy wtih what an other person promoot? Thats their choise....live and lett live( i am sure i write that wrong i think..so i am not sure)