Katrina aftermath - what the fuck???

[Tubey]

I recently started on a quest to help, My goal was to create a list of shelters and possibley the names of people within to help locate family members separated and sheltered in different locations. I called alot of people today and this was the result....

-----Original Message-----
From: Specenl1@aol.com [mailto:Specenl1@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 2:10 PM
To:
Subject: Making of website list from Terry

Hello,

I am trying to make a list of people located in shelters so other family members can locate loved ones during the disaster. I do some web work and purchased the domain shelterlist.com to try to accomplish this task. The domain will not be active for a few more hours and so far I have contacted the coast guard, fema, and have tried to contact the redcross to get some sort of list started. At this time fema has no such list, nor does the coast guard, I am hoping the redcross may have some information that would start this process.
I can be contacted through this e-mail address
Thanks for any input you can give,
Terry

Terry,
The American Red Cross does not post the names of individuals located in shelters due to confidentiality reasons.
Take care.
American Red Cross of Central Florida


I still have some people trying to figure out a way to get the info about the shelters but it seems this may be very difficult at this point.
ANY IDEAS???
Terry

[docholly]

Moveon.org has a website called Hurricane Housing which lists shelters, organizations and families that are offering short and long term shelter. Even tho we are in vegas we added ours as we have a spare room and who knows.. at least vegas has jobs.

Also Craigslist.org is posting information for NOLA and surrounding areas about housing, food, jobs etc and i think they were starting a "here is where I am" list.. for those who are looking kind of like what they did after 9-11.

[emmanuelle]

There are several regional message boards where people can post the names of the missing, as well as get out word that they are safe and where they have evacuated to.
Many are associated with local newspapers, and cnn has one as well
try these:
http://forums.sunherald.com/n/mb/lis...r-biloxkatrina
http://www.nola.com/forums/searching/
http://208.137.136.144/phpbb2/index.php
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2005/hurricanes/list/
http://kenburtonne.web116.discountas...na/Status.aspx

Here is the official gov site listing most resources http://www.firstgov.gov/Citizen/Topi...loved-ones-vgn

[Chop Smith]

Nice post, Emmauelle. Thanks.

Good video of the damage at http://www.wlbt.com/

[Tubey]

Thanks,
I will get those links up as soon as the dns resolves and I will pass the info on.
Terry

[SirMoby]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

I'm more worried about the aftermath on a national level. Can our economy handle this?

My thought is NO. I never thought that the economy could handle another 4 years of Dubya even without this.

It will be 2006 before people can have drinkable running water in homes but these people have guns now.

Those that know me know that I would love to blame the administration for this but it's not easy.

Think about a bill presented by the senator of Lousiana for $250,000,000 to build damns in his state. How is he going to get the support of CA, NY or any other state blue or red? He ain't and it don't matter what 100 reports says. He ain't gonna get it.

Blame the administration for starting the war in Iraq, giving huge amounts of tax dollars to friends and family and spending more then our great grand children can repay. You can blame the administration for not being able to provide support in a week to 10 days but voters would not allow them to spend the 100s of millions of dollars needed to keep that city above water.

I don't think it's a racial issue but the news will make it so. It's about money and power and NO never had enough of either to keep he city above water.

[Halfdeck]

Originally Posted by emmanuelle

The south will rise again, just like Atlanta.
Southerners are incredibly proud and independant

Hurricanes Cindy and Dennis were expected to be severe, and did not live up to their hype. When the warnings came for Katrina, they were not taken seriously enough.

Forget about racism, who is at fault and everything else that armchair analysts seem to be preoccupied with. Get yourself over to the redcross site and see what you can do to be part of the solution. Hundreds of thousands of people have been affected in that region alone, not to mention the entire continent's economy.

Everyone joined together when 9-11 happened, and even for the tsunami crisis. America needs to pull itself together again for one of it's own. The longer we argue and delay help, the more people who die.

Well said. I admit I'm not overly charitable by nature, but I cruised on over to redcross.org and donated after reading your post.

[Useless]

The more I watch the coverage, the more it saddens me to see that our government is, for all intents and purposes, allowing people to starve and to die from dehydration. This is one sorry state of affairs. You cannot tell me that there is no way to reach these people. If a damned news crew can film them, then why can't the national guard get in there with food and water? It's sad that it requires armed people to restore order, but that's what happens when you allow people to feel abandoned. Mob rules will always take over in the absense of authority.

[spookyx]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

The more I watch the coverage, the more it saddens me to see that our government is, for all intents and purposes, allowing people to starve and to die from dehydration. This is one sorry state of affairs. You cannot tell me that there is no way to reach these people. If a damned news crew can film them, then why can't the national guard get in there with food and water? It's sad that it requires armed people to restore order, but that's what happens when you allow people to feel abandoned. Mob rules will always take over in the absense of authority.

so true UW. and about the guns... if my family was stuck and starving, I would prolly grab one too.

[Kinky]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

The more I watch the coverage, the more it saddens me to see that our government is, for all intents and purposes, allowing people to starve and to die from dehydration. This is one sorry state of affairs. You cannot tell me that there is no way to reach these people. If a damned news crew can film them, then why can't the national guard get in there with food and water? It's sad that it requires armed people to restore order, but that's what happens when you allow people to feel abandoned. Mob rules will always take over in the absense of authority.

one reason is that most of our national guard is in Iraq fighting for "freedom" and dubya isn't smart enough to figure out where to get the manpower to help...

it was also nice to see him take a low pass real quick over in air force one to check the damage instead of actually giving two shits and getting in a chopper and visiting the damaged area... so many people said he was "a great leader" after 9/11 well what the fuck happened? he is a friggin' retard with a perma smirk

[Tubey]

Originally Posted by kinky

one reason is that most of our national guard is in Iraq fighting for "freedom" and dubya isn't smart enough to figure out where to get the manpower to help...

it was also nice to see him take a low pass real quick over in air force one to check the damage instead of actually giving two shits and getting in a chopper and visiting the damaged area... so many people said he was "a great leader" after 9/11 well what the fuck happened? he is a friggin' retard with a perma smirk

It is taking longer than it should but you just can't send in 30k troops onto bourbon st, you have to know where to send them to make them effective. The devastation doesn't just start at NO either most of the roads are AFU to get them there. It does take a little time to get the troops called in and loaded up planned out as far as where they are going to sleep and how they are going to get fed as well. The airport is being used to stage rescue ops of the living if the pres stopped there it would hault operations (due to security reasons) for hours while he was there and I don't believe anyone would like to stop rescue ops so I believe he made the right choice not to stop in and take a peek. Tues the Coast Guard alone did over 1700 rescue missions not including the other branches of the service. In short the whole area is a mess and it is a HUGE mess. Roads are destroyed bridges out, people shooting, looting, and running around like crazy. I think this is the first time since the civil war that an entire city was ever evacuated.
I think we should figure out how to fix the problem not who to blame.
Just my $.02

[Trev]

Originally Posted by kinky

one reason is that most of our national guard is in Iraq fighting for "freedom" and dubya isn't smart enough to figure out where to get the manpower to help...

Exactly. I heard they were calling up Coast Guard reserves. Even that takes time. They have a huge hospital ship coming. From Baltimore.................... it should be there in 3-4 days. Everything should be there in 2-4 days..... but meanwhile.......

[Ms Naughty]

There are two white guys left in New Orleans and they seem to have the only beer:
http://sigmund.biz/kat20050901%20par...Picture137.jpg
(Pic taken from the DirectNIC photo pages here: http://sigmund.biz/kat20050901%20part%202/)

Yahoo has taken the "white people find" photo down but there's copies and commentary at Salon:
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/20...rsy/index.html

I also read a news report where a black man said he considered driving his family out before the storm hit but he only had a five- person car and heard the people were being arrested for overloading cars.

:/

[dareutwo]

Just an fyi before you think I'm a complete moron - (well ok, some of you still will think so)
I did donate to the Red Cross for this on Tuesday night.
My brother and father of 4, a combat medic, is on stand by (National Guard) to fly down from Minnesota.
I have also called my local Representative.
I did call both my Senators (had to leave messages), and have done everything I could do from here.
This is simply just a complete frickin mess.
NO lies below sea level, this has been known for decades, yet they had no plan???

I have no doubt that the "South" will rebuild, but that's not the question now. The immediate question should be (and have been), "Get those people out now".

[juggernaut]

From my vast experience in the military and federal employment and working with the National Guard I have to say those guys have it harder then any other military. Not only from the stand point of having a day job but also from the command sense. They take their orders from the state level. Meaning, even if GW sent them to war your State's governor has the power to stop that. Even more so in the mid-east (NYC NJ ETC) if the governor feels it’s too important to take "His/her" troops then he can say no they are not going. But on the other hand you are dealing with a political nightmare. Any Governor to say such a thing would just be looked at as not wanting to fight this war.
So 70% of there air craft are in other places through out the world, we know this. The problem is stemming from most NG who would help with this are the ones who live there. Now on other issues that come from this100% of all soldiers are ruled by UCMJ military law, which is enforced at the DOD level. Now what that means is if a soldier gets orders, those orders are coming from the President. If they disobey those orders, they go to jail (that’s active military). The National Guard is ruled by UCMJ but it's not enforced on a federal level. In other words someone in the NG can get orders, but they would come from his governor. And if they disobey those orders the UCMJ CAN be enforced but it does not have to. The ending decision comes from that’s NG TAG (like their 5 start general, governors military advisor). You will find that most NG does not enforce these rules for a couple of reasons. Most of the soldiers in the NG are long time soldiers, lifers. The average experience level of these soldiers is 18 years in the military. Most of that time is over 10 in the NG. So the TAG's understand what it means to have a day job and deal with the military. They will not stop a man from trying to help his family. If someone from the NG got orders and never showed up, they would get in trouble but most likely just a slap on the wrist. These are not your normal military families; they don't live on bases or live the military life 100%. So for them family comes 1st and no governor or tag is going to put someone in jail for helping his family, even more so if the soldier is a good solider, never having any infractions. Worst part about this is, that most NG soldiers are better then the active military. Nothing against them, it's just the numbered facts. They have a long military experience and training (most train active military), and when sent to schools it’s a hardship on the family for a few months, it's also hard for a NG to get the schooling as all military schools require some kind of physical training test in order to pass the school. The NG will not send a solider to school for promotion or anything if they feel they will fail the PT test. So when they do go they are ready. Plus the state flips that bill and if the soldier fails the school its money wasted. So now you have guys with all these years of experience (most experts in their field, you would be surprised the amount of doctors and lawyers in the Guard) who can't or won't show up to help because they are trying to help their families. I'm sure GW is getting a reminder of what it means to not show up for training or anything else in the NG. I mean he surly remembers he did not have to. I personally would have gone. I know the NG would have helped its family first so their soldiers can work with the comfort of knowing the family is safe. But when no one shows up to drive that boat or fly the chopper where do you get the skilled labor from? Sorry for the long one. Jugg.

[emmanuelle]

Originally Posted by dareutwo

NO lies below sea level, this has been known for decades, yet they had no plan???

Does California have an earthquake plan?

[Calliope]

My question is where are all our "international" friends? Food and water was dropped 2 days after the tsunami, its now day 5 and no massive water/food drop?

Where to put the people? - Isn't the gulf full of cruise ships? Isn't NO on the Gulf? At least they would have shelter and get them out of the city until permenant shelters could be etablished in other areas.

This whole things rips my heart out - I have many friends who live(d) in and round NO. Little by little we are finding them safe.

[dareutwo]

Originally Posted by emmanuelle

Does California have an earthquake plan?

For the "Big One", yes they do, but unfortunately it's plan is based on California moving 20-25 miles north in about 1 minute, and the Home Base Operations is in Colorado

Calliope - GW turned down all offers of assistance so far.

[Erick G]

USA is too arogant to ask for help
which is fucken SAD but true.
Canada has sent rescue teams.
Countries have donated money.. I dont have the list in front of me.. but its getting big.
Bush is creating one hell of a legacy.. King of incompetence!
5 days to send help in..ridiculous! American's DESERVE fucken anwsers!

[docholly]

man i nearly punched this guy in the grocery line yesterday. Apparently when the few supplies finally arrived yesterday, AFTER George was there, (i'm surprised he didn't ride in on the top of one of the trucks).. there were quite a few angry words for the soldiers.

Well this asshole was kvetching.. about see we sent in food and they are still bitching. Loudly! (and other racial crap that I refuse to repeat)

I said to him: Excuse me but this store cannot sell you food for the next 5 days. He looked at me dumb struck. I said.. see you need to feel thirsty, hungry, tired and HOT with no communication from the outside world, surrounded by rotting dead people, sewage that has been left in 97% humidity for 5 days. ONLY then will you understand exactly WHY these people are angry.

He said they should have left. I said.. and left how? Walked? ridden a bicycle in 120MPH winds? did the national guard drive through the neighborhoods before hand offering rides? NO.. but they did get the tourists out.

well it resulted in an ensuing shouting match with about 6 people participating.. finally i just said in my normal voice.. See it is really all about content of character. Left my groceries in the cart and kept on stepping.

As bill maher said last night: George hugged a Negro today, now we can let the supply trucks in. (paraphrased cuz i was 1/2 asleep)

[Tommy]

this whole thing is bullshit

5 days before any real supplies or troops get there ???

think about as if this was your town

saying that they didnt know where to go was bullshit they could just turn on cnn see the people on their roofs and point and say go there

I will tell ya one thing i noticed....... white people know when to leave

I also dont think its fair to place all the blame on George Bush


but I seen on cnn GW was talking with fema leaders and who ever was in charge of the coast gaurd

he didnt know the cameras were on him, and he had that same stupid look on his face as he did at the school during 9/11. He just kept noding his head looking like an idiot

this guy is not a leader

[spookyx]

and what a lot of people have not yet thought about... what happens to the people that did get out. no jobs or homes to return too. pretty soon people that made it to hotels and such far away are going to run out of money and need help too. its like a million people unemployed at once.

[emmanuelle]

More than a million- Already my parent's company (based in Laurel MS) is in jeopardy.
Without power, internet or staff, they cannot bill clients, or pay their out of town employees. They still cannot get flights out of Jackson to generate revenue either.

A week or two of downtime can ruin many businesses; I expect to see many southern companies close in the near future.

[RawAlex]

The thing that disturbs me the most is pictures on one side of people trapped in their homes and stuck in various parts of New Orleans because they couldn't get out, and on the other side pictures of hundreds of school buses and city buses mid window deep in water, never moved to the service of these people.

In a city with a huge population of low income people who likely don't have transportation to get out of the city, I think the city (mayor and others) made a major mistake by not getting these busses on the roads and out picking people up.

Even at 50 people per bus, thousands of people could have been moved to higher ground before this turned to shit.

It's the little things that piss me off - because a collection of little things could have changed everything.

[Tommy]

if you really think about the job situation its really fucked

its gonna be 3 months before they start letting people back in

so 3 months before buisness can start rebuilding
who knows maybe 2 months to rebuild ??
but who is gonna rebuild when there are no jobs, which = no money

if you reopen your resturant nobody has any money to come and order food, drinks etc