Katrina aftermath - what the fuck???

[dareutwo]

Originally Posted by Tommy

so 3 months before buisness can start rebuilding
who knows maybe 2 months to rebuild ??
but who is gonna rebuild when there are no jobs, which = no money

I'm guessing a lot longer than that. When Andrew hit Florida, plywood prices 1800 miles away almost tripled. (and we make it here)
They don't have an infrastructure to build onto. All the gas, power, phones etc, no longer exist. What are you going to hook up too??
This will take years.

I would keep the people out for as long as it takes to have the really big equipment to get their jobs done. ie... don't allow them back for maybe a year. During that time, let the dozers and big crews get the heavy lifting done. It's a lot easier to tear up and replace a road when you don't have to detour or reroute traffic or worry about live wires, just tear it up and build.
If a 12 man crew can install the infrastructure to a new 50 house sub division in about 8-10 weeks, imagine what 15,000 National Guard, the SeeBeas and huge equipment can get done. They can work 24 hours a day.

[Erick G]

It is going to take 60-80 days just to drain the water which is beyond contaminated
Its going to take YEARS at the pace this gov moves for people to rebuild.

[furrygirl]

Originally Posted by Calliope

My question is where are all our "international" friends? Food and water was dropped 2 days after the tsunami, its now day 5 and no massive water/food drop?

Where to put the people? - Isn't the gulf full of cruise ships? Isn't NO on the Gulf? At least they would have shelter and get them out of the city until permenant shelters could be etablished in other areas.

I've read about Qatar pledging 100m to relief, as well as Castro sending doctors: http://neworleans.indymedia.org/news/2005/09/4260.php & http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/03/katrina.castro/

Plus, the government has hired 3 Carnival cruise ships to provide temporary housing.

[Lemmy]

"apart from the million dollars in monetary assistance, Venezuela is offering two mobile hospital units, each capable of assisting 150 people, 120 specialists in rescue operations, 10 water purifying plants, 18 electricity generators of 850 KW each, 20 tons of bottled water, and 50 tons of canned food"

US response? Unsolicited offers can be counter productive.

http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=8012

[CaptainJSparrow]

Hi Guys,

I'm from Louisiana...Baton Rouge to be exact. I "snuck in" to New Orleans this morning with my brother to check on his house. Normally, I don't get involved with "political speak." This time, I think I'll add my 2 cents.

First off, Leon, Spaceman Spiff & Jenny are fine. They got their power back on late last night, but their internet connection is still down. Obviously I'm (you called me Rogue...my icq handle) fine too...my power was off until Thursday night.

Let me tell you, don't don't get too caught up in all this crap that they're showing on the news. First, we had very little warning of this pending storm because no one knew where it was going...we can't run everytime there is a storm in the gulf.

Second, our contra flow for traffic worked exceptionally well...everyone willing and able to get out of New Orleans did.

Now these folks that stayed, and everyone is blaming the government for that...alot of them are too stupid, or in too much of a drug/alcohol induced stupor, to bother trying to get out. AND, since when did it become the government's, or the president's responsibility to force people to do something that they refuse to do for their own health? I mean, when do adults actually have take responsibility for their own situations and their own health and well-being? Everyone complains about big brother...then when something like this happens they complain that that same big brother should have done something about it. You can't have it both ways. This is a free country and those folks chose to live in New Orleans, knowing that it is below sea level. The majority of them chose to stay in their domiciles as well. They could have gone to the 'Dome or other places.

I've seen first hand TONS of busses going to New Orleans to get these folks out. I've seen the helicopters flying all over. At the New Orleans airport, there were lots of planes and helicopters flying folks out. Busses everywhere. Police from all over the country too. National guardsmen...on I-10 there were hundreds of trucks.

Let me tell you, what could have been a life ending disaster of "Biblical proportions" was missed because of the quick response of the authorities...both local, statewide, and national.

It pisses me off when the national media come in here and fly around filming (and playing the same film clips over and over and over again) the aforementioned folks and throwing blame at the government. These few unlucky folks are the exception, not the rule...and for the most part, they brought it on themselves.

Then you have idiots like Jesse Jackson begging for attention and ranting and raving that it's racism. Pardon my French, but Fuck him! He's just trying to get attention and incite unrest.

I drove around today, went to the Lake, saw some houses that had water damage...hell it's nothing that we folks from around here haven't seen before. I'm kinda surprised that folks from Biloxi, Mobile, Pensacola, and Miami aren't flipping everyone off and saying "Hello! We get this shit all the time." Yes, a large part of New Orleans got hit hard. It's under sea level and that makes it a bit more disastrous. It's nothing that can't be dealt with. Mark my words, they're gonna rebuild it better than it was before and faster than the national media leads you to believe.

We've had phone problems because of the vast amount of folks in one area. We've had lines at the gas pumps. We've had tons of people without power. But the great majority of us are alive and well. Real estate around here is skyrocketing. Landlords are giving their tenants the boot and selling their properties. Homeowners are raising the selling price of their houses because of the boom. There are no apartments for rent, no hotel rooms available. Jobs in this part of Louisiana are guaranteed for quite a while.

New Orleans will be rebuilt...my only regret is that those folks that scream "the sky is falling and it's someone's fault" can't be buried under the cement of those new structures that we will build. It'd be a great resting place for Jesse Jackson and lots of other folks that always throw stones without knowing what they're talking about.

Our government, President Bush, no one is responsible for this hurricane. It is a natural disaster. IMHO everyone has done a great job in helping folks survive.

[CaptainJSparrow]

One more thing, word around here is that Fats Domino is staying at Jamarcus Russell's (the quarterback for LSU) place. Not sure if it's true or not, but I think that it is.

[Lemmy]

First of all, I'm glad the board members are safe.

I can't respond to everything you said, it's too late and I'm tired, but fuck man you're heartless. They're too dumb to get out, so it serves them right?

Regarding your big brother comment, you can and should have it "both ways". The reason governments are created in the first place (in democracies) is to provide basic safety for the citizens, but at the same time stay out of or private affairs. Hurricane relief seems like a prime example of what any self-respecting government should provide.

[Chop Smith]

Amen, Captain. But ain't it great to be from the most mis-understood region in America?

I don't think this has hit the news yet. Down on the Mississipi Gulf Coast, they are constructing a fence to block the public out. By Wednesday they hope to have the body count finished and the Mississippi National Guard, local and state agencies will begin dozering everything south of the railroad tracks. We are getting ready to rebuilt. This is not the first time and I am sure it will not be the last.

[CaptainJSparrow]

Lemmy, I never said "it serves them right." My point is, they should take it upon themselves to watch out for themselves...we can't blame the government for all of our problems. I mean, should the government take away all of our kitchen knives because some folks use them to hurt themselves, to commit suicide, or to commit murder? Alot of these people REFUSED to get out. Then, you see them waving flags on the news and say it's the governments fault. Hopefully, those white flags that they're waving will be flags of surrender saying "Ok, next time they say leave, re: MANDATORY EVACUATION, I will take it upon myself to go to a designated place of shelter, catch a ride, do something to get the hell out of there.

You know, my uncle told me that he wasn't evacuating...he said that his house had withstood hurricanes for 26 years. At 1 am on Monday he told my aunt, that if they survive this one they will never stay when there is an evacuation again. I almost begged him on the phone to evacuate. Thankfully they survived, with just minimal damage to their house.

I agree that in a perfect world the government should do as you mentioned. This world is not perfect. As free citizens, we should take it upon ourselves to be as responsible for our own well being as is humanly possible. IMHO these folks did nothing of the kind...they thumbned their noses at the government, and it's warnings, and now they're paying the price for their actions.

I've seen first hand that the government is responding. I've seen the military already involved. I've seen the police from lots of other states. I've seen the commandeered busses. I know of one company that chartered a number of busses to go get some of their employees and the government commandeered those busses... it basically said, your people are Ok where they are (ie they'll live) so we are taking these busses to help get out folks that are in more danger. I also know, for a fact, that one company had some employees that voluntarily stayed to "mind the store". As the water started rising because of the broken levee, they got worried. The company hired helicopters to go get the employees. The plan was to land on the top of the Tulane Medical Center's Parking garage (which has a heliport). The guard there, freaked out because of the national media's predictions of rioting, refused to let these employees get to the helicopters. These guards even flagged away the helicopters. Our governor called in and told these people to let those helicopters land. The employees were flown to private jets and taken to safety.

C'mon now, again, sure it's a disaster, sure some folks got killed. It is sad, but it is a part of life. I just say, that the majority of folks that got killed, they could've avoided it had they listened to the government. Hence, it is their own fault.

[CaptainJSparrow]

By the way, I'm not involved with politics at all. I pretty much hate politics. I'm not fanatically pro-republican or pro-democrat.

I am a big believer in people taking responsibility for themselves as much as possible and think that most folks should stop trying to blame others for their woes.

I think a smaller, better organized, less involved (in our personal lives) government would be much better.

I guess I'm trying to say that I really am not "pro-government" by any means.

In this instance, I think that they did an admirable job. I think that the national media paints as grim a picture as possible for viewers/ratings.

Good night all.

[Tubey]

Originally Posted by Tubey

I recently started on a quest to help, My goal was to create a list of shelters and possibley the names of people within to help locate family members separated and sheltered in different locations. I called alot of people today and this was the result....

-----Original Message-----
From: Specenl1@aol.com [mailto:Specenl1@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 2:10 PM
To:
Subject: Making of website list from Terry

Hello,

I am trying to make a list of people located in shelters so other family members can locate loved ones during the disaster. I do some web work and purchased the domain shelterlist.com to try to accomplish this task. The domain will not be active for a few more hours and so far I have contacted the coast guard, fema, and have tried to contact the redcross to get some sort of list started. At this time fema has no such list, nor does the coast guard, I am hoping the redcross may have some information that would start this process.
I can be contacted through this e-mail address
Thanks for any input you can give,
Terry

Terry,
The American Red Cross does not post the names of individuals located in shelters due to confidentiality reasons.
Take care.
American Red Cross of Central Florida


I still have some people trying to figure out a way to get the info about the shelters but it seems this may be very difficult at this point.
ANY IDEAS???
Terry

Guess What? I guess they do..... and they totally took the Idea and ran with it.
Don't get me wrong the red cross is and has done many wonderfull things around the world....but a little credit for the idea would be nice.......

[Linkster]

Capt Sparrow - as you know I echo everything you are saying 10 times over - we all know down here what is really going on and all I can say is that if people want to watch the news I sure hope they understand they are getting "tainted reporting"

Im really glad to hear that you guys are ok and S Spiff and the others are doing good - sounds like things are about the same down there as they are here other than the real estate boom

I can get some deisel for the truck so if you need anything carted down let me know - if anyone needs a place to get away from the hub-bub for a few days Ive got plenty of room here - or if you have a trailer or boat you need storage for - plenty of parking area

[Lemmy]

Well I don't live in Louisiana or anywhere near the South, so I don't know what's really going on. I can't insert myself into the minds of thousands of victims to see why they didn't evacuate and pass moral judgement on their need for help.

But I can pass moral judgement on the quality of a society. I do so in part by seeing how it responds to those in need wether or not they 'deserve' it.

[CaptainJSparrow]

Thanks Linkster. We're good here though. Glad to hear that you're OK too.

Lemmy. I realize that it is easy to form an opinion, and pass judgement, on things. The hard part is to realize that some of the information that you're using to form that opinion is tainted (as Linkster said) by the media.

In this instance, I read the posts and thought that some folks had the wrong opinion (based on what I've seen first hand and on what my friends have seen and we've discussed).

I know of a man that was delivering water and ice to help, and his truck with all the supplies was carjacked at gunpoint by the very same people that he was trying to help.

Folks have volunteered to go down there in their own boats to rescue these poor folks that you're talking about, and these same poor folks are shooting at their rescuers, and even taking the boats themselves.

Military helicopters are being shot at as they try to rescue people.

You know, when "we" clear out land and there are wild animals living on that land we re-locate them. The people that go in, have to take the proper precautions and wear protective clothing, etc. to protect themselves from the animals that they're trying to help. Even though it's in the animals best interest that they be relocated, they still bite the hand that's trying to save them.

Well, unfortunately, in New Orleans, a similar thing is going on. The military, the police, and the volunteers jobs are being slowed down by the folks that they are trying to rescue. There are alot of people in New Orleans that don't want to be rescued/re-located. They would rather stay and have their way (ie loot) with as many stores as they can. But once these folks get caught somewhere because of rising water, they're on TV waving flags and nice folks are saying "It's the President's fault that those poor folks are still in New Orleans." Now of course, that is not an accurate description of every person waving a flag...but I'd guess that everything that I've typed in these posts describes well over 95% of those folks that you're seeing on TV. Yesterday, as I was driving around an area that was just a block or two from the Lake, an area that had flooded, I saw a man sitting in the median on a lawn chair getting some sun and watching everything going on around him. There was no way that he has any sort of power where he was. I'm doubting that he had running water...if it ran it was certainly not drinkable. There were cars and trucks driving all around this man. If he wanted to get out, he could've flagged one of us down and someone would have taken him to safety. Instead, he sat there watching the ducks and the traffic and the storm damage. Now, should the President come on down and forceably remove this guy? He doesn't want to go. What if it rains here tomorrow, the levee breaks where he is, and he's on his roof waving a flag? The media helicopters will be flying over him (not offering assistance) and broadcasting his image all over the world and who will folks blame for this poor guy's predicament?

Most people around here know that the contra flow worked. The mandatory evactuation, in the order that they did it, worked. Most people around here know that those folks that are dead or stranded did it to themselves. We feel sorry for them, to an extent. Alot of folks around here also feel that these people are keeping the authorities from focusing on repairing the damage.

Lemmy, that is just how it really is down here in Louisiana.

[Lemmy]

So now you're comparing the victims to wild animals?

Why don't we just file this whole thing under "Shit Happens" and move on with our lives. I'll call the Red Cross and ask for a refund on my donation. After all this didn't happen in Connecticut so why should I give a shit?

No disrespect CaptainJSparrow, but your analogies seem a bit off.

Agreed, opinions are easy to form and as we know everybody has one. I also realize that media thrives on shit, but you just can't explain away the past week's coverage from every major news outlet in the world.

Best of luck to everyone in the affected areas!

[CaptainJSparrow]

Lemmy, there's an old saying "If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and has an orange bill..."

You keep calling them victims. If someone brings something upon himself or herself, can you still call them a victim? You also throw blame around like a blanket...but you're missing a large part of the target. That is the actual "victims" themselves.

Let me tell you, it is not the President's fault that these folks are in this predicament. It's not the fault of our governor. It's not the fault of the state police, or any of the local authorities. It is their fault. They were warned to get out. They were given a means to get to safety (yes shelters were provided ... no one was turned away) and they refused.

Now you, in Conneticut I believe, are gonna sit there and say that it is someone else's fault for their predicament? C'mon.

Hell, the man that I saw yesterday is still in harms way. Should we send a police unit over there to put him in cuffs and take him to Baton Rouge and set him free? Those police units are kinda busy guarding downed power lines that are sparking so that no one get's themselves electrecuted. Those police units are busy trying to stop those "victims" from killing their rescuers and from stealing electrical appliances (and putting themselves in harms way while they're doing it). Hell, when do we stop protecting these victims from themselves and use our resources to get on with the process of getting this city inhabitable so that all of those displaced folks can get back home. Right now, today, the police are gonna be real busy letting in the citizens so that they can go assess the damage to their homes, and get what they can salvage out. The authorities are needed to keep the order for that. Why should they have to divide their resources to go protect these victims from themselves.

Nuff said.

[Halfdeck]

From seeing 20 people watch the same event and tell you 20 different opinions on what they saw, saying "this is how it really is" is as accurate as any media coverage out there. "This is how I and my friends see it down in Louisiana" is more like it.

People blaming George Bush for this is just unfounded, and the media coverage may be over dramatized for the sake of ratings, but you know what? I'm glad the media is comparing this to 9/11, the tsunami disaster and whatever else. If that type of inaccurate coverage keep people in line and speed things up and save a few extra lives, I'm all for it.

Most people around here know that those folks that are dead or stranded did it to themselves. We feel sorry for them, to an extent. Alot of folks around here also feel that these people are keeping the authorities from focusing on repairing the damage.

Honestly, my intial reaction after the hurricane hit FLA was this: "Dying in a hurricane has got to be the dumbest way to die."

But WTF, what is more important, saving lives or repairing the damage?

Blaming the victims only slows down the rescue effort. And frankly, blaming people for not leaving is as unproductive as blaming George Bush for changes in the weather.

We can blame whoever later but right now, I don't care if people are shooting at choppers and flipping over rescue boats. There are people dying/suffering out there and that has got to stop.

[CaptainJSparrow]

Halfdeck...you are right "This is how I and my friends see it down in Louisiana" is more like it." is a much more accurate way to say it.

It just get's my goat when folks try to place blame at the expense of people that are trying to help. In this instance, the fed & local governments are helping.

The dieing and suffering will stop and everything is being done by the authorities to do that. No one is perfect, they will make mistakes, but I'm proud of the efforts that I've seen, both on the news and firsthand.

[SirMoby]

Captain, your compassion and IQ are showing.

[Torn Rose]

"The Buck stops here" is something Bush will never say.

Blame all of those who are simply too poor to own a car or for not having the physical ability to walk to the superdome or where ever, let’s also blame them for having no authority in place at the superdome and other places and also blame them for not having FEMA in the city for the first 5 days while CNN and other news stations where there the entire time asking over and over where is FEMA?

I think the NO mayor needs to be thrown in jail for all his lies since he is the one on tv telling those of us who do not live in Louisiana that it is fucked beyond belief and that people are dying, I feel stupid for listening to this person, I mean really, what does he know? Is he there? Odds are he is letting CNN making his decisions.

Thank you for setting me straight, when the USA can get a water purifier to Sri Lanka in 18 hours after a tsunami but it takes 5 days for FEMA to get to a major US city I just thought that was wrong, but since the people who are "there" say other wise, I must be wrong.

Lemmy when you call for a refund, tell them we want our donations back as well.

BTW, someone said FEMA did such a great job here in Florida, I suggest you come to Florida and talk to the people who are still waiting for FEMA to do their jobs and to the ones who are now being kicked out of the trailers FEMA brought in for them to live in until their homes are rebuilt which in most cases their old home is still there waiting on FEMA to do their job and let them start rebuilding.

Yes, it is for sure the so called “victims” faults that FEMA is ran by someone incompetent to do that job, and since that person was appointed by Bush, it must all be Clintons fault since he got a blowjob.

[CaptainJSparrow]

Hey, while we're blaming them for everything let's blame them for the hurricane as well. I'm sure you can find someone to point fingers at that that nasty old hurricane actually was allowed to hit Louisiana.

It's the President's fault. The governor's? Maybe it's the mayor's fault.

You guy's crack me up. Gotta bitch about something, huh?

Mistakes were made. Good things were done too though. Next time, we'll be better prepared, but I'd imagine, mistakes will still be made.

SirMoby, I've done alot to help others around here. What have you done? Please don't talk to me about compassion when you sit there and just bitch. Oh, and my IQ is 165...what is yours?

[Lemmy]

Originally Posted by CaptainJSparrow

You also throw blame around like a blanket...

Captain, I don't think I mentioned blame at all. It was simply what I perceived to be your lack of compassion that prompted my post. But now that you mention it...

At the end of the day, the buck does stop with the President. I'm not saying that he personally should be held responsible for every little fuckup in FEMA, the military or the National Guard, but when it became apparent early on that things were going FUBAR he didn't show any kind of leadership. Commander in Chief isn't an honorary title. He has the power to take control. He didn't.

On a side note, for the Katrina fuckup and too many other reasons to list here, I personally think GWB should be put in front of a firing squad. I believe they're still allowed to execute retards in Texas.

Originally Posted by CaptainJSparrow

Now you, in Conneticut I believe, are gonna sit there and say that it is someone else's fault for their predicament?

I really don't see what my state of residence has to do with anything.

[Bill]

Now I think I feel kinda dumb for having donated money.

Next time I'll know better.

[Chop Smith]

Gen Russell Honore just told a Louisiana Congressman and a news reporter that they were full of bull shit. Basically, "if you are not on the streets of New Orleans" shut the fuck up and do something. I don't know who appointed him to be in charge, but they made a good choice - native of Louisiana and daughters live in New Orleans. This is a link to his CNN profile http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/honore.profile/

[RawAlex]

I just saw a report on CNN, Ex presidents Bush (father) and Clinton touring and setting up a fund that will 100% pass money directly to the states involved.

They interviewed Clinton... his off the cuff remarks about responsiblity, FEMA, Homeland Security, energy policy, action, ideas, and policies were so bang on. I remember now how this guy became president, by being able to say what so many of us think. Most important, he said "all of this is for the future, 60, 90 120, days... whatever... what is important now is taking care of what is here now".

It's not about political party - it is about appearing to take charge. Bush doesn't look like a man at the wheel, more like a passenger. The buck stops somewhere else, but he really isn't sure where (but he'll ask Cheney in case he knows - when he gets back from vacation).

"Don't just stand there Dr Dre, OPERATE"!