2257 arguments

[Tommy]

I wasnt sure I should post this with all the 2257 stuff already on the board

I been thinking about the records being available from 9 to 5 thing or even the min 20 hrs a week

I always felt I was really good at making agruments

smoking cigerettes pacing ...Pacing

if I get called for jury duty and I dont go
I violate the law

if I do go I violate the 2257 federal records keeping law


if I am in the army reserve I must serve 1 weekend a month and 1 week a year
thats the law BUT
that puts me in viloation of the 2257 records keeping law

If I go get my taxes done
if I go to the bank
if I am in the hospitial
I can never ever again go on vacation
I cannot go renew my drivers licence
I cannot go get my car inspected

if i am arrested at any time for any offence
I automatically violate the 2257 law the next day because I will not be there

I cannot even go to staples to buy the paper to make these records :-)

essentally I have been placed under house arrest during normal buisness hours

and maybe I am reaching here but arent I guaranteed Life, Liberty and The Pursuit of Happiness

how do you have Liberty when the DOJ says you have to be home from 9 to 5 EVERY buisness day just on the off chance we might show up

[plateman]

Thats some good thought tommy I wonder if they argued that...

[PhoneSexChick]

Maybe the DOJ could issue us special ankle bracelets that track where we go. If we're in line at Wal Mart when they arrive, we'd get a little shock to our ankle and a text message that says "Guess who! It's your lucky day. Come home please."

[Chop Smith]

Tommy, todays FSC announcement indicates that DOJ does not read the constitution that provides you the right to Life, Liberty and The Pursuit of Happiness

[babymaker]

and what about us fucks that still have to work a day job, were fucked!

[ponyman]

These are all excellent points... and so fucking logical, yo!

[Pusher]

One other thought - what happens if you don't let the inspector in to your home/business? Is that against the law???

If they can't review the records, they can't find you in violation, can they???

[Toby]

That's a very good question. I said this the other day in another discussion. If they show up at my door they'd better have a warrant or they're not getting in.

[Chop Smith]

A buddy has told me that he has placed his records on a laptop. He states that he has it by his door and that if an investigator shows up that he is going to hand him the laptop and tell him to have a seat on his front porch.

[NotThatKevin]

Originally Posted by Chop Smith

A buddy has told me that he has placed his records on a laptop. He states that he has it by his door and that if an investigator shows up that he is going to hand him the laptop and tell him to have a seat on his front porch.

LOL that I like

[Mr. Blue]

Originally Posted by Chop Smith

A buddy has told me that he has placed his records on a laptop. He states that he has it by his door and that if an investigator shows up that he is going to hand him the laptop and tell him to have a seat on his front porch.

lol, I got a laptop for my record keeping...I was thinking of making them go to my basement with it...but I like the porch idea better.

[Mr. Blue]

You know, you could always write a script that changes that time when you'll be available for inspection. Here's how it works...on Monday, it shows you're available on thursday, friday, saturday for inspection...when you hit Tuesday, you're only available friday, saturday, sunday...etc, so forth and so on.

[Jim]

Tommy, that is just a few holes in the 2257 argument. What about the right to privacy for the models? Is the right to privacy out the window with this new deal? Think of another time in history where the government could come into your home or office whenever they saw fit. It reminds me of Germany many years ago I will not say the "N" word. But if this bogus law went through all the way, I would feel like a Jew. What's next, concentration camps for those that don't comply with 2257?

Bring it on Cocksuckers

[Lemmy]

Originally Posted by Jim

I will not say the "N" word.

I'll say it: This looks more and more like Nazi tactics. And it's not just 2257. The Supreme court says it's OK to throw people out of their homes to build shopping malls, the DoD is collecting data on teens for a future draft, Bush want's a constitutional amendment to make homosexuals second class citizens, we have an offshore detainment camp where prisoners are held indefinitely without access to legal aid, our military is torturing POWs in Iraq. What's not nazi-like about it?

[Candy]

Originally Posted by Jim

Tommy, that is just a few holes in the 2257 argument. What about the right to privacy for the models? Is the right to privacy out the window with this new deal? Think of another time in history where the government could come into your home or office whenever they saw fit. It reminds me of Germany many years ago I will not say the "N" word. But if this bogus law went through all the way, I would feel like a Jew. What's next, concentration camps for those that don't comply with 2257?

Bring it on Cocksuckers

My biggest problem is that I can not give out my address. No way. I sit here all fukcing day. I will surely be stalked by fans and freaks. I am the producer and the model. BIG PROBLEM. I CAN NOT PUT MY ADDRESS ON THE INTERNET. I also can not give my id to affiliates who promote me. So they just took away my right completely to express myself naked and operate my own website. I have no fucking right what so ever to be naked if I want to. And I have no right to publish my own images. Only someone else with an address has that right. So the gov is saying I must sell all y pics to a producer who has an address to circulate them. I WANT MY FREEDOM AND I WANT PRIVACY AND I WANT PROTECTION UNDER THE LAW.

I will be stalked, my identity stolen and I am sure as hell 8 fucking teen or OLDER.

[Jim]

This is the reason the founding fathers gave us the right to bare arms. If a government gets out of control, people have to take it back.

[Jim]

We need a high priced lobbyist that will work for our business. Together, we are big enough to have one. Look at the tobacco industry. Everyone knows it kills and yet, they are legal. We need to hire their guys

[Mishi]

Originally Posted by Jim

We need a high priced lobbyist that will work for our business. Together, we are big enough to have one. Look at the tobacco industry. Everyone knows it kills and yet, they are legal. We need to hire their guys

It is every American's God-given right to inhale a toxic substance into his or her body. Get a grip, dude.

Now, the whole sex thing - that's just WRONG. If God had meant for us to have sex...wait, never mind.

[Cleo]

Business as usual here at the Cleo's office.

I do have about 3000 less listings at my LL then I did a few weeks ago.

I just got additional insurance coverage for my home. They wanted to know where I worked so I said at home. If I ran a business out of my home my insurance coverage would have been a lot more. Hearing that I told them my office was anywhere I had internet access and my laptop. They said that was fine as long as I never have clients actually come to my home and since I told them that I have absolutely no contact with anyone and that all my business is done through the internet they agreed.

Angel is going to New York for location shoots today. She was thinking of paying someone to sit in her house for a week but then after hearing my insurance story she decided that she would be taking her office with her so there was no reason to have someone sit at her house.

In short my office is anywhere that I have a laptop and a internet connection.

[koolkat]

Originally Posted by Cleo

Business as usual here at the Cleo's office.

I do have about 3000 less listings at my LL then I did a few weeks ago.

I just got additional insurance coverage for my home. They wanted to know where I worked so I said at home. If I ran a business out of my home my insurance coverage would have been a lot more. Hearing that I told them my office was anywhere I had internet access and my laptop. They said that was fine as long as I never have clients actually come to my home and since I told them that I have absolutely no contact with anyone and that all my business is done through the internet they agreed.

Angel is going to New York for location shoots today. She was thinking of paying someone to sit in her house for a week but then after hearing my insurance story she decided that she would be taking her office with her so there was no reason to have someone sit at her house.

In short my office is anywhere that I have a laptop and a internet connection.

Yeah... my address is 192.168.1.100

[Linkster]

Tommy - having been involved with government inspection processes before as you know, I look at it more from how things would really work if a business were to be brought up for inspection.

First off - the inspectors are going to schedule a visit for the inspection - if it were a normal inspection, to meet with the holder of records. That assumes that the person being inspected is just a routine look at records.
If the inspectors have a specific reason, which in my opinion is why this whole law came about, to look at someones records where they think that they already have a crime being committed, but just need to be able to prove it, then that would be a very different situation. In my little mind I have to look at why an agency would even draft a law like this, and looking back at my "other life" the times when they invoked a "show up at the door" surprise visit, is when they already had plenty of reason - and were usually right - they just needed to catch the organization in the act.
For us, where we already keep our sites clean, and report illegal stuff, if they really just wanted to inspect to fill their "quotas" which I highly doubt with all the illegal shit going on out there, then they are going to be business like with it. We used to get notified 3 months in advance for inspections, given a list of what they were going to inspect, and the regulatory guides to say "here's how we are going to conduct the inspection. And BTW here's the time we would like to do this and if thats inconvenient, please call us and schedule a different time."

The fear-mongers and "sky-is-falling" people in our industry have done a good job at making this into a gestapo/Orwellian type of situation mostly for their own benefit or because they thrive on the attention.

Tommy - if you remember our phone conversation - there are a lot of what I call "shit-stirrers" in this biz that just want to see everybody cower and hide or even worse - look up to them as "important people" so they keep posting BS that has nothing based in real-life situations. After sitting through numerous government regulator inspections personally, I can tell you that these guys are just civil workers getting paid a pretty low salary, and most (while very knowledgable) are just following a little guide book written by their agency that says step-by-step - here's what to look at and here's the questions to ask

For the minority of situations where DOJ really wants this law available (the guys they know are transporting CP and distributing it) for surprise inspections - I would have to say based on my opinions - they ought to have a tool of some kind to be able to do that - I just dont know what the constitutionally protected way is to accomplish that?

[plateman]

Thanks Linkster I read all your posts this mouring and feel a little better and maybe the gov. needs these tools to go after the real scum of this biz and close them down.. Now if they do surprise visits of low ball webmasters that promote nothing questionable and convict them for not having the docs or ready docs for a 40 year old model then we can really worry and think they want us all to stop building porn or go to jail(we dont want you in public)

[Chop Smith]

Originally Posted by Linkster

Tommy - having been involved with government inspection processes before as you know, I look at it more from how things would really work if a business were to be brought up for inspection.

First off - the inspectors are going to schedule a visit for the inspection - if it were a normal inspection, to meet with the holder of records. That assumes that the person being inspected is just a routine look at records.
If the inspectors have a specific reason, which in my opinion is why this whole law came about, to look at someones records where they think that they already have a crime being committed, but just need to be able to prove it, then that would be a very different situation. In my little mind I have to look at why an agency would even draft a law like this, and looking back at my "other life" the times when they invoked a "show up at the door" surprise visit, is when they already had plenty of reason - and were usually right - they just needed to catch the organization in the act.
For us, where we already keep our sites clean, and report illegal stuff, if they really just wanted to inspect to fill their "quotas" which I highly doubt with all the illegal shit going on out there, then they are going to be business like with it. We used to get notified 3 months in advance for inspections, given a list of what they were going to inspect, and the regulatory guides to say "here's how we are going to conduct the inspection. And BTW here's the time we would like to do this and if thats inconvenient, please call us and schedule a different time."

The fear-mongers and "sky-is-falling" people in our industry have done a good job at making this into a gestapo/Orwellian type of situation mostly for their own benefit or because they thrive on the attention.

Tommy - if you remember our phone conversation - there are a lot of what I call "shit-stirrers" in this biz that just want to see everybody cower and hide or even worse - look up to them as "important people" so they keep posting BS that has nothing based in real-life situations. After sitting through numerous government regulator inspections personally, I can tell you that these guys are just civil workers getting paid a pretty low salary, and most (while very knowledgable) are just following a little guide book written by their agency that says step-by-step - here's what to look at and here's the questions to ask

For the minority of situations where DOJ really wants this law available (the guys they know are transporting CP and distributing it) for surprise inspections - I would have to say based on my opinions - they ought to have a tool of some kind to be able to do that - I just dont know what the constitutionally protected way is to accomplish that?

You nailed it. Good post

[neticule]

i read something on xbiz the other night, i cant remember the article. but it talked about this, and they apparently understand that you must be out of the home from time to time even during business hours. ill try to drudge up the article or thread it was in...

[Toby]

sorry, wrong number