An Open Thread To AVN & Internext...

[Greenguy]

Alex - I don't think we got a clear answer to that, which I know I asked (why pay $170 to have people spam us in person - $250 to hear seminars from people that are probably there to spam us as well since they are not really being paid)

I think we did get the "it is what you make of it" reply, but the badge (seminars or not) has much less value than it did in 2000.

I will say this & I looked it up after the show last night - the rates for The Venetian are $20/night more than last year, which considering it's the 3 conventions at the same time, is not that bad of a mark up (and badge costs are the same)

[Greenguy]

Does anyone have the basic badge costs from 2004? 2003? 2002? 2001? 2000? 1999?

2000 was the 1st year at The Venetian - 1999 was the Monte Carlo if I remember correctly.

I lost all my old emails mid 2004 so I don;t have that info

[emmanuelle]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

Does anyone have the basic badge costs from 2004? 2003? 2002? 2001? 2000? 1999?

2000 was the 1st year at The Venetian - 1999 was the Monte Carlo if I remember correctly.

I lost all my old emails mid 2004 so I don;t have that info

2000 -2003 the early bird special was $125, and $150 afterwards.
In 2000 & 2001 there was actually a referral program on the badges, where we received $10 from AVN for every badge purchased through our code.

[RawAlex]

GG, the rates for the hotel were like that only until they sold out, and that was a long, long time ago. Most people are paying significantly more than last year, especially those who would normally stay at secondary hotels. What finally decided it for me not to go was when I found places like Imperial Palace and Harrahs at more than $200 a night - 60 and 90 days before the event. If you did that same event 2 weeks later, we would be looking at something like $39 a night.

Jim, bad math. In making the badges more and more expensive, they in turn make it less and less attractive for sponsors and people planning booths to be on the show floor to start with. If there are less people to market to, the value of marketting goes down. Plus, you need less sales people, less hangers on, and less support staff. Why send 10 people to a show when 2 will do?

You have to have people to market to, or there is no point. At $250 for a badge, they are cutting their own legs off in the long run.

Alex

[Jim]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Jim, bad math. In making the badges more and more expensive, they in turn make it less and less attractive for sponsors and people planning booths to be on the show floor to start with. If there are less people to market to, the value of marketting goes down. Plus, you need less sales people, less hangers on, and less support staff. Why send 10 people to a show when 2 will do?

You have to have people to market to, or there is no point. At $250 for a badge, they are cutting their own legs off in the long run.

Alex

You are preaching to the choir, my friend. That seems to be the math they are using. Better math would be reasonable hotel rates + reasonable badge prices = more attendees.

But, Greenie and I were talking earlier. The money doesn't affect me at all. I have the MGM wanting to get their money back from me and for the past several years they have offered a free flight and free room. In this business, I like the business. I don't care for the content part. So, unless, we turn back time to the good old days of sitting in a room smoking cigars talking business without strippers, I won't be attending any of these events.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Jim

....So, unless, we turn back time to the good old days of sitting in a room smoking cigars talking business without strippers, I won't be attending any of these events.

5000 people in a suite calmy smoking cigars & chatting while sipping on Brandy?

We did what you're saying in Miami...remember?

Originally Posted by Jim

And get rid of the damn strippers walking around with the scanners on the floor...I forgot that part

Didn't Aly tell us to just use a Sharpie on the bar code?

[Greenguy]

You act like it's AVN's fault that you didn't plan ahead & book early

I of course didn't factor that in & just went off the emails I got from Rose for last year & this year (which I usually just glance at & then delete to the trash folder since I book this stuff myself so I can get comped)

[SirMoby]

The question has been asked in this thread but I don't see any responce to it at all.

"Why not change the date of the Vegas and Miami shows"?

The only reason I'm going to Vegas this year is to introduce my wife to some people. If the show runs into booking problems next year I'm not going. Last year the show floor was way small and people had to wait for hours to get badges. It was simply wrong.

In 2006 I have budget for 4 shows and I'll take my wife to Vegas. If the dates don't change I'll go to 4 shows in 2007 and none of them will be AVN. If Dr. B, Tommy or GG have a get together I'll be there but Vegas is just getting silly.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by SirMoby

The question has been asked in this thread but I don't see any responce to it at all.

"Why not change the date of the Vegas and Miami shows"?...

We got a lot of answers to that on the show - Vegas is good for AVN because of the other show, Miami in August is dirt cheap & the don't want to move to another month because they'd interfere with the other conventions (San Diego, Phoenix, etc)

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

We got a lot of answers to that on the show - Vegas is good for AVN because of the other show, Miami in August is dirt cheap & the don't want to move to another month because they'd interfere with the other conventions (San Diego, Phoenix, etc)

DIRT CHEAP?
Wow, I'm coming to work for you.
Us "Po' bidness men" don't see those rates as "dirt cheap."

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by EmporerEJ

DIRT CHEAP?
Wow, I'm coming to work for you.
Us "Po' bidness men" don't see those rates as "dirt cheap."

Can you think of a cheaper location than Miami in August at the beginning of the Hurricane season?

And it was brought up that it's not an easy task to find a place for 5000 pornographers to hang out for 4 days, so the Westin can say to AVN that they'll let us take over, as long as it's in August & they can charge their own rates since they're probably not that busy & the rates justify allowing us "porn" people.

I suggested that AVN just have a convention at some hall or convention center & let us all find our own hotels, but they said that people like being able to bump into each other in the hotel & we're all together so we don't have to worry about offending people, which contradicts what happens in Vegas, since people are staying at 30 different hotels

I could give 2 shits if I even see a nipple in Vegas, but AVN does want people to see nipples & tits & twinks in tight shorts, so we're back to the "Internext is not for us" scenario.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

Can you think of a cheaper location than Miami in August at the beginning of the Hurricane season?

And it was brought up that it's not an easy task to find a place for 5000 pornographers to hang out for 4 days, so the Westin can say to AVN that they'll let us take over, as long as it's in August & they can charge their own rates since they're probably not that busy & the rates justify allowing us "porn" people.

I suggested that AVN just have a convention at some hall or convention center & let us all find our own hotels, but they said that people like being able to bump into each other in the hotel & we're all together so we don't have to worry about offending people, which contradicts what happens in Vegas, since people are staying at 30 different hotels

I could give 2 shits if I even see a nipple in Vegas, but AVN does want people to see nipples & tits & twinks in tight shorts, so we're back to the "Internext is not for us" scenario.

No contradiction - Venetian sells out and people like to find cheaper rates at other hotels.

[SirMoby]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

Miami in August is dirt cheap & the don't want to move to another month because they'd interfere with the other conventions (San Diego, Phoenix, etc)

Interesting. I remember the last time I went to Florida I gold Starwood and was quoted lower rates for the week before and the week after show. The rates weren't a lot lower but like $15 to $20.

Why is it higher during the days of the convention then it is on other days?

Can't we find another hotel some where else in the country in AUgust that would be cheaper?

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by SirMoby

...Can't we find another hotel some where else in the country in AUgust that would be cheaper?

We suggested that ANYPLACE in the continental US in August would be fine (high 70's, low 80's here in Buffalo at that time of the year - just a lovely time of the year) & Farley did say that he would have them look into the possibility of having the August show in a different city & he was taking notes.

Jim said Denver

[SirMoby]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

We suggested that ANYPLACE in the continental US in August would be fine (high 70's, low 80's here in Buffalo at that time of the year - just a lovely time of the year) & Farley did say that he would have them look into the possibility of having the August show in a different city & he was taking notes.

Jim said Denver

While I'm for anything this side of the Mississippi if they're not tied to any city in particulr then they might want to consider something centrally located. Denver, Chicago, Indy, St. Louis, Kansas City ....

Of course Buffalo has some good webmasters there

[Jim]

And get rid of the damn strippers walking around with the scanners on the floor...I forgot that part

[Greenguy]

EmporerEJ (and everyone else) My apologies for the recording of last night's show - for some reason, about 20 minutes into it, it stop recording one channel from the mixer, which is partly why the last hour sounds like Jim & I are yelling & it's hard to hear Farley & Far-L

[Greenguy]

...and last night's is the only one really worth listening to

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

...and last night's is the only one really worth listening to

Sure sure....the one show I REALLY want to listen to, and you muck it up...

Greenguy...........you're FIRED!

(Get yer damn suitcase, and go down the elevator to the waiting cab)

[RawAlex]

The problem this year is that with the show running at the same time exact dates as CES, there are no cheap hotels in Vegas. The city is as packed as it ever gets, the lineups for meals, bars, taxis, limos, and just about everything else you could want will be insane, and you get to pay a premium price for all of it.

Move the Vegas show even 1 month later, and suddenly hotel prices would drop to reasonable, the city would be more relaxed, a little warmer, and nobody would be suffering for it.

Anyone else notice that shows like Pheonix, the Cybernet shows, and such have seen an upswing in the last couple of years?

Hmmm...

Alex

[Ramster]

Greenguy
What Alex is saying is Harrahs and other hotels are usually way way cheaper. But because of the CES Harrahs is $500/night as are the other hotels. For people who stay at the Venetian and booked early there isn't much of a price difference, you are right there.

Just got these prices off of Hotels.com right now for Harrah's:
2 Jan - C$57.27
3 Jan - C$57.27
4 Jan - C$511.89
5 Jan - C$584.35
6 Jan - C$584.35
7 Jan - C$584.35
8 Jan - C$161.28
9 Jan - C$128.56

Sorry for the C, that is Canadian dollars. LOL The price jumps from $50 to $500, that's Fucking insane.

Oh, my first show in 2001 was $125 and it was that price for another year or 2.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Far-L

No contradiction - Venetian sells out and people like to find cheaper rates at other hotels.

It sort of is - like Farley said last night when I asked him about just renting a hall/convention area & letting us find our own hotels, AVN's POV is that it's better if we are all in one place & have the hotel to ourselves & don't annoy anyone or bump into families & whatnot. If they truly felt that way, they'd look into getting a hotel in Vegas (probably off the strip) that was just us where what he said about Miami would hold true.

Point is that if it's ok for one, why not the other?

Alex & Ramster - I agree 100% that the rooms at any hotel near the conventions are priced really high, but like Farley said, more people wanted both AVN shows at the same time & the squeaky wheel gets the grease. We're all just stupid for not telling AVN that the way they were doing it was just fine by us & assuming that they'd realize that the hotel rates would go thru the roof (How long have the blocks Rose had been sold out?)

emmanuelle - thanks for the info $125 thru 2003, $170 for 2004 to 2006 is exactly what I was wondering (I have no point to asking, just wondering - LOL)

OH! It's a moot point, but a little birdy told me that there's no major convention in Vegas from Jan 8-11 & only 1 starts on the 11th way down at Mandalay Bay

[Chop Smith]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

OH! It's a moot point, but a little birdy told me that there's no major convention in Vegas from Jan 8-11 & only 1 starts on the 11th way down at Mandalay Bay

Get that little birdy to find out what a block of rooms (500 or so) cost during that time frame. Looking at Harrah's, one would be saving $1K just on room cost alone

[docholly]

I had a nice long post but changed my mind.. decided just to "tweet and chirp" on my own.

[RawAlex]

GG, I think Rose was sold out by early September... basically as soon as the Miami show was over, every found out how totally fucked January would be and started booking.

I called them and got the "only a few big suites left" deal... those were expensive at the time (but now not far out of line for a regular room at Harrahs).

Now, let me tell you a little bit about shows, and why there is the hotel room thing:

Basically, almost every hotel that has a convention center attached to it runs the convention center to put guests in the rooms. There is often a direct tie between number of square feet taken for the show and the minimum number of rooms that the show has to guarantee to get the space. Anything less than that number, and the show ends up paying for rooms that it cannot use out of pocket.

Go over that number, and there is a small travel agent style commission made.

If they didn't do that, the cost of the show floor space would likely be double or maybe even not made available.

By compressing the time frame of the shows together, AVN also benefits from having to deliver less rooms for less days (Instead of maybe 1000 room nights per day for 7 days, they maybe only have to deliver 1200 a night for 4 or 5 nights, example) because the space for both shows at the Sands is always tied up for the full 10 days or so (they cannot run another anything with a porn show at that end of the building).

AVN cuts their entire show time down by 3 days, saves themselves a butload of money, gets rid of the new years day load in costs, and the bottom line looks much better as a result. They can lose 10-20% attendance and still come out far, far ahead.

It is short sighted to the max... but it does improve the bottom line.

Alex