Are These New Piece Of Shit Options Now Standard In NATS?

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by tickler

...Great way to gain an extra 10% income for the sponsor by screwing the WMs out of their referrals commision.

That's why I try to ask if anyone has signed up to the new program so that I can use their referral code

[Mr. Blue]

Very interesting thread indeed.

I don't really have a problem with Nats itself, more or less it's just another bit of software. What I do have a problem with is the hype that surrounded it when it got released and how many sponsors jumped on the nats bandwagon and used that as some sort of "cheat-proof" inducement to get affiliates to pump traffic to them.

Now that the hype period has ended, look through your stats, are you doing better with ratio wise with sponsors that use Nats? Or have you found the opposite to be true? Personally, I found the opposite to be true...right now the top 10 sponsors I use none of them are on Nats.

Doesn't mean I won't try sponsors using nats...it just means they better perform up to my other sponsors or they're getting dropped quick.

[rollergirl]

This is a very interesting thread. I have been thinking something was wrong for a long time. I have noticed a drop from my sponsors who switched to NATS. I'll have to get in an go over my stats from the long term to get some solid details.

Question.. I had great ratios with a sponsor when they were with ccbill. They switched to NATS but and my sales started slowing up immediately. I still see them in my CCbill list of sponsors and the linking code for this program still sends to their site. What is happening to traffic I send to them via the old CCbill link if the still process with ccbill. I don't know how the NATS software works enough to say it would or wouldn't interfere with my affiliate codes. I actually just went through my entire list of CCbill affiliates and found some that had moved to NATS and I didn't know.

I don't want to make this hard to undertand, so I'm asking what if you went back to promoting them via CCbill. I know a few programs that allow you to do both. (Which I appreciate).
Is that an option in the NATS program that the owner has to turn on or off? If not, couldn't a person go back and get the linking codes from CCbill and get paid from CCbill if the program owner still processes with CCbill? I know.. yada, yada cascading... but this specific processor only processes with ccbill that I can see thus far.

Also.. in NATS.. I also hate the 42 clicks it takes me to get to links.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by rollergirl

...so I'm asking what if you went back to promoting them via CCbill. I know a few programs that allow you to do both. (Which I appreciate).
Is that an option in the NATS program that the owner has to turn on or off?...

Hey Katie, LTNS.

Keeping the CCBill program live is simply a matter of maintaining a separate tour that leads to a CCBill join page. The NATS program would run independently of the CCBill program, but on the same domain.

I've had a couple of programs that switched to NATS from CCBill that were somehow able to track the CCBill ref code and convert it to a NATS ref code on the fly so that you still rec'd credit for traffic sent from old link codes. I'm not sure why all don't do that, but it sure makes me feel much better about those programs that did.

[BadWolf]

I've seen more than one thread before bashing both NATS and CCBill. When it comes to trust I accept that there are issues with both. Personally, I prefer NATS and I also find many sponsors that use CCbill to be inferior especially regarding promotional material but that's life.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by BadWolf

... and I also find many sponsors that use CCbill to be inferior especially regarding promotional material but that's life.

Believe me when I say that there is nothing in NATS as far as promotional material that you can't do with CCBill or any other admin.

And, there's a lot of programs that use NATS that have fuck all for promo material.

Promo material has everything to do with the program owner & nothing to do with the affiliate software.

[BadWolf]

Originally Posted by Greenie

Believe me when I say that there is nothing in NATS as far as promotional material that you can't do with CCBill or any other admin.

And, there's a lot of programs that use NATS that have fuck all for promo material.

Promo material has everything to do with the program owner & nothing to do with the affiliate software.

I understand that. I just have seen so many small amateur sites that use CCBill that do not bother to put together any promotional materials that I almost literally groan when I see them asking for my CCBill affilate code when I click on the 'webmasters' link. That's not CCBills' fault in any way but it definitely creates a Pavlovian response in me.

It's not the end of the world, it's just more work for me if I choose to promote that sponsor. I guess it's more of an issue for me as I'm ending up promoting more and more small niche sponsors.

My point, which I should have made more clear, was that I deal with both CCBill and NATS whether I or not a get a warm glow from the experience.

[DangerDave]

I heard that shit too... but with no one from NATS coming back to this thread... maybe we will never know....

.... and NATS will remains the shitbox that it is..

DD

[nekrom]

Go Dave, go Dave.

-N

[DangerDave]

Fuckin' NATS!

.. and lose the fucking visual confirmation login shit.. who the fuck is trying to login apart from the owner of the account

DD

[Useless]

I was peeking at GG's stats today and noticed one of those 0:10000 type ratios for a program I haven't made a sale on since they went NATS this past year, and it dawned on me that there is one solid reason to actually like NATS - you can see when you're getting fucked off the planet. You can probably get much of the same info via CCBill, but who has the time to wait for CCBill's stats to load? Sponsors who use NATS do us a favor by being on a server fast enough for us to see how shitty our ratios are.

You know, if I owned a program and decided to go NATS due to a want/need for cascading billing and alleged higher sales ratios - and my ratios plummeted - I think I'd be bitching and asking questions. But you never seem to see the program owners complain. Interesting.

[nibbler]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

You know, if I owned a program and decided to go NATS due to a want/need for cascading billing and alleged higher sales ratios - and my ratios plummeted - I think I'd be bitching and asking questions. But you never seem to see the program owners complain. Interesting.

That's so true. Everytime I bitch about horrible ratios, I get the "Everything is fine on my side" answer from the program owner and in my head i'm saying "I'm sure it is, you rat bastard".

[ronnie]

Originally Posted by nibbler

That's so true. Everytime I bitch about horrible ratios, I get the "Everything is fine on my side" answer from the program owner and in my head i'm saying "I'm sure it is, you rat bastard".

They always say that, no matter the program software. It's always the webmaster that is doing something wrong or their traffic. Amazing how that can happen when nothing changes on the webmasters side.

ronnie

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by DangerDave

Fuckin' NATS!

.. and lose the fucking visual confirmation login shit.. who the fuck is trying to login apart from the owner of the account

DD

I have a feeling that is an option & thus, it's the program owner's fault that they have the regular login boxes on the front page & after you enter the correct info, you are sent to a new page with more login boxes & the image confirmation text.

[nibbler]

Originally Posted by ronnie

They always say that, no matter the program software. It's always the webmaster that is doing something wrong or their traffic. Amazing how that can happen when nothing changes on the webmasters side.

ronnie

I'm convinced that the program owner has a big red button (like in those Staples commericals) that says DO NOT CREDIT AFFILIATE SALES that he pushes every once in a while when sales are slow and
occasionally the affiliate manager with the fat ass presses it by accident while leaning on the desk talking to the hot secretary (just kidding of course, or am i?)

[Greenguy]

UW - that's actually good to know

[Qon]

the amount of nats bashing in here is amazing... as an affiliate of many nats programs and as an affiliate program owner, my understanding of both sides is extensive. without running down a list of complaints about ccbill, i'd say i'd definitely prefer any affiliate tracking software to ccbill tracking alone (though i send traffic to both types of programs). why? i noticed john mentioned that ccbill is a processor and not in the business of developing software that benefits BOTH affiliates and site owners. they are in the business of quickly and effectively processing transactions for its clients... which means, who is the higher priority to them? the site owner or you as an affiliate? what makes you think ccbill caters any more to the affiliate with their software than NATs/MPA3/Whatever?

why exactly would any of you believe that a program owner would LIKE for NATs to NOT credit you on signups? hell, i'm more upset on my end as a program owner if my software isn't crediting properly because i know if u are sending traffic but you are not seeing sales, then you probably won't be an affiliate of mine for very long! who stays in business by continually shafting affiliates?

often, changes in sales due to a switch to NATs are caused by configuration problems on the program side. the thing about NATs is that once u have it installed, a lot of technical setup of sites and processing steps are the responsibility of the program owner. if you incorrectly configure something, its really left up to you to figure that out on your own.... you will not be notified by TMM or your processor that something is not setup properly. TMM support is absolutely phenomenal but in order to get help with it, you have to recognize a problem & ask for help fixing it. NATs cannot be blamed for a program owner's lack of understanding when using their software. they also can't handle 100% setup of a program's sites as they have too many clients and your license of the software comes with a walkthru and an understanding that one has to have extensive technical knowledge to utilize the software.

take the time to go step by step thru a signup on the site you are selling if its important to you to insure your sponsor has things setup properly. if they haven't taken the time to do so (which they should), then perhaps there's something happening that they haven't even noticed. when you signup as an affiliate, you are making a partnership agreement so contribute to it by helping them insure everything is set correctly so that both of you make money. the only reason you would LOSE on a program that offers cascading (using any software) is if the cascade is not setup properly... otherwise, i don't understand the complaints about it. of course i'd want 2 or 3 chances to get a sale from 1 customer if i could get that.... why would i PREFER to send my traffic to a program where there is ZERO chance to get a sale from a backup processor? perhaps ccbill will scrub a guy today but paycom won't? this "I ONLY TRUST CCBILL" shit is crazy..... what happens if ccbill isn't around one day? you want your top sponsors dependent on a credit card processor? have all of you forgotten about the IBills & GLOBills of the world? maybe you're all too new.... i dunno.


i have a few more things to go over but i'll let ya marinate on that for now....bbl

[lassiter]

Originally Posted by DamnQ

why exactly would any of you believe that a program owner would LIKE for NATs to NOT credit you on signups?

Huh? How about the sponsor getting to keep 100% of the sale revenue instead of 50%? Multiply by a couple hundred sales a month and it's an irresistable revenue enhancer.

The more pertinent question is "why should we believe for a moment that this doesn't happen?"

[Qon]

Originally Posted by lassiter

Huh? How about the sponsor getting to keep 100% of the sale revenue instead of 50%? Multiply by a couple hundred sales a month and it's an irresistable revenue enhancer.

The more pertinent question is "why should we believe for a moment that this doesn't happen?"

did u completely skip everything i posted thereafter? IF YOU DON'T MAKE SALES, YOU STOP SENDING TRAFFIC. YOU STOP SENDING TRAFFIC, I STOP MAKING SALES. seems like common sense to me.... if you're talking PPS, then its a different ballgame... but this is revshare and every sale counts so why would i WANT your sales to go missing or not get credited?

[Preacher]

Originally Posted by DamnQ

did u completely skip everything i posted thereafter? IF YOU DON'T MAKE SALES, YOU STOP SENDING TRAFFIC. YOU STOP SENDING TRAFFIC, I STOP MAKING SALES. seems like common sense to me.... if you're talking PPS, then its a different ballgame... but this is revshare and every sale counts so why would i WANT your sales to go missing or not get credited?

This reminds me of a time about a year ago where some well known webmaster on some forum listed a handful of sponsors that he swore was shaving based on traffic numbers and ratios.

[Qon]

Originally Posted by Preacher

This reminds me of a time about a year ago where some well known webmaster on some forum listed a handful of sponsors that he swore was shaving based on traffic numbers and ratios.

my deductions were not strictly based on traffic numbers and ratios and i believe i went thru all this.... don't u hate when people try to take your words and use them against you on a completely irrelevant subject?

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by DamnQ

the amount of nats bashing in here is amazing...

you look at it as bashing - and while it did start out that way, John came by & turned it into an unanswered Q & A session, which disappoints most of us

[shunga]

Good post, Q.

I've been hoping John would contribute more, too. I appreciate the signal to noise ratio can become a little overwhelming, though.

[Simon]

Maybe there needs to be a "NATS Watch" website.

What I mean is someplace that lists all of the required and optional configuration settings in the NATS software that are important to affiliate webmasters. The site could list how each sponsor has their copy of NATS configured. Those listings could be posted based on how sponsors say that they have their NATS set up, and also based on real world tests by affiliates to reveal if some sponsors may have misconfigurations they're not aware of (or if some are just screwing affiliates on purpose).

[DangerDave]

the amount of nats bashing in here is amazing

Why is it that apologists always pull out the "<insert program name here> bashing" line everytime someone questions an action, process etc..

No one is bashing anyone... We have asked some legitimate questions, and as usual those that have the answers have treated us with contempt yet again.

DamnQ - what is your input in this? that you like NATS? Well "whoopee" for you - you could have said that in one line........



Yes.. NATS is coping some heat here and so they should... Legitimate questions have been asked and though they don't believe it(just yet) the opinions posted here do matter, and their product is being damaged.

but that said.... NATS/TMM isn't going to answer shit! because they know they don't have too While program owners continue to shell out the big bucks for their backend software.. which IN NO DOUBT assists the program owner in making more $$... they aint gonna say shit.... Which is why they ran away from this thread so fast..

DD

_______________________________
No Nats - Find programs that DON'T use NATS
Old Dollars - Selling older women via CCBill for longer than NATS has been around