PimpRoll Account Closed!

[PR_Tom]

Hi Useless, nice to be remembered

Guys n gals, Hitman is a much busier man than I am which is why I tried to jump back in here and help with a post about the situation. I have a little more time to sit and type and such, so I'll try some more.

I'm trying to say that the bottom line is we, like any program, want good webmasters all of the time, and thats not going to change. Thats a clue that hey, if you are a dolphin who got caught in the tuna net, please bear with it for the time being and let us know. If you write it in a ticket, I shall try to revisit the accounts when it's the right time and see where we stand.

PimpRoll and all of the sites/programs under the same company are in this for the LONG HAUL as always. Thats why we heard people about cross sales for instance and allow you to turn them off. Now I think his account got netted with a bunch of actual active fraudsters and I know it could be pure dumb luck with a few sales and all cb's. It can happen.

I can't sit here and flick a switch and turn accounts off and on, I dont have the information or the power or whatever. But if you can bear with us, I can only say again that we want all of the good webmasters we can find and that's not going to change.

Maj Stress, I think it's because it was 100% and, if I'm not mistaken, a FAIRLY new account. Dont quote me on that. I am guessing for this instance only and doing so without data in front of me.

[Star Man]

PR_Tom and Hit Man,with all due respect here...

If you were a webmaster that just got done reading this thread would YOU want to work with you?

[Star Man]

I just mean you sound kind of harsh,thats all...

[PR_Tom]

Well I guess it depends, Star Man.

It depends on what I want from a program, and what I expect from a program and so forth. I'm trying to deal with it straight on in terms that I can use. Realising that it's a private issue gone public else I wouldnt have in the first place. First thing I had to do this morning when I logged in and got an ICQ message was to inquire about it. I've posted my findings here in this thread.

Now I can tell you that at times, I've had to tell people they were terminated because of "fraud" and if you own a paysite, you know that sometimes thats what a third party processor tells you, and thats about it! Kinda hard to smooth that sort of thing over when relaying it to the affiliate and thats a fact.

What I would find much worse is a completely non-responsive program that wouldnt even visit the board to say hello or goodbye or anything else.

I have absolutely no reason to believe that it was anything other than pure bad luck that got JD's account in trouble. And I am saying I will personally try to revisit any accounts by good webmasters who send in an email that they cant log in. It's all I can do as I live and breathe.

[Bobc01]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

Well I guess it depends, Star Man.

It depends on what I want from a program, and what I expect from a program and so forth. I'm trying to deal with it straight on in terms that I can use. Realising that it's a private issue gone public else I wouldnt have in the first place. First thing I had to do this morning when I logged in and got an ICQ message was to inquire about it. I've posted my findings here in this thread.

Now I can tell you that at times, I've had to tell people they were terminated because of "fraud" and if you own a paysite, you know that sometimes thats what a third party processor tells you, and thats about it! Kinda hard to smooth that sort of thing over when relaying it to the affiliate and thats a fact.

What I would find much worse is a completely non-responsive program that wouldnt even visit the board to say hello or goodbye or anything else.

I have absolutely no reason to believe that it was anything other than pure bad luck that got JD's account in trouble. And I am saying I will personally try to revisit any accounts by good webmasters who send in an email that they cant log in. It's all I can do as I live and breathe.

It's every "Good" webmasters nightmare to have charge backs and it's a shame the CC companies don't do more to stop it.

Unless ofcourse it's a legitimate reason, you know like pre-checked cross sales.

[Star Man]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

Well I guess it depends, Star Man.

It depends on what I want from a program, and what I expect from a program and so forth. I'm trying to deal with it straight on in terms that I can use. Realising that it's a private issue gone public else I wouldnt have in the first place. First thing I had to do this morning when I logged in and got an ICQ message was to inquire about it. I've posted my findings here in this thread.

Now I can tell you that at times, I've had to tell people they were terminated because of "fraud" and if you own a paysite, you know that sometimes thats what a third party processor tells you, and thats about it! Kinda hard to smooth that sort of thing over when relaying it to the affiliate and thats a fact.

What I would find much worse is a completely non-responsive program that wouldnt even visit the board to say hello or goodbye or anything else.

I have absolutely no reason to believe that it was anything other than pure bad luck that got JD's account in trouble. And I am saying I will personally try to revisit any accounts by good webmasters who send in an email that they cant log in. It's all I can do as I live and breathe.

JD's account and what happened is obviously none of my business and I was hesitant to post in this thread.I only chimed in because I've had my share of chargebacks and if my sponsors came on the board and implied that I was a bad webmaster,I'd be pretty damn embarrassed.But hey,I don't know the details and you and Hit Man seem to be firm on your rather harsh stance.

[SheepGuy]

PimpRoll's treatment of JD, an honest webmaster, is very similar to another sponsor's treatment of myself, check out http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/...ad.php?t=42624 if you've got some spare time.
After 4 or 5 pages of bad publicity for the sponsor involved, I received an apology for being falsely accused of fraud, thanks in a large part to the help of people in the biz who know me and know my character, and spoke up.

I'm not sure where that sponsor is now, but I'm still here.

As big as PimpRoll is, I'm not sure where they'll be in a couple of years if they treat honest webmasters as crooks, but I know JD will still be putting up quality porn sites and making an honest living doing so.

[Webby]

Originally Posted by SheepGuy

PimpRoll's treatment of JD, an honest webmaster, is very similar to another sponsor's treatment of myself, check out http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/...ad.php?t=42624 if you've got some spare time.
After 4 or 5 pages of bad publicity for the sponsor involved, I received an apology for being falsely accused of fraud, thanks in a large part to the help of people in the biz who know me and know my character, and spoke up.

Not a lot ya can say after that SheepGuy! Speechless!!!

Sure does sound like some crap from an airline - they are never wrong, never issue apologies and their lawyers write crap to avoid admitting liability :-)

[Star Man]

Originally Posted by SheepGuy

PimpRoll's treatment of JD, an honest webmaster, is very similar to another sponsor's treatment of myself, check out http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/...ad.php?t=42624 if you've got some spare time.
After 4 or 5 pages of bad publicity for the sponsor involved, I received an apology for being falsely accused of fraud, thanks in a large part to the help of people in the biz who know me and know my character, and spoke up.

Just read that now Sheepguy.Thats some slander type stuff right there.She even admitted she could have messed up but just kept going anyhow.Shocking....

[MadCat]

Problem with sponsors is that they seem to hire ex-airline staff for their support, or just have no idea how to do it right.
As far as I can tell, the usual reaction from a sponsor towards and affiliate that gets an "excessive" amount of chargebacks is: "omg we see more chargebacks on this account than is the norm. BALEETED!@#"

At this point, the poor affiliate is already considered guilty.

The "proper" way to handle it, as a sponsor, is if your system is telling you that someone's getting more chargebacks than normal, or there is some sort of suspicious activity going on, you contact said affiliate. You send them an e-mail, saying that your system has flagged their account due to <insert activity here>, and could they please contact you within 3 days to discuss the situation, and so sorry but you won't be credited for sales while your account is flagged."

(However, you do keep a record of the sales the affiliate brought in when they are flagged).

If they don't respond within 3 days, you can release the BALEET! BALEET! monkeys.

If they do respond within 3 days, and give a good explanation as to what's happened (and a good explanation does include "how should I know? I just run a few sites"), you take it to the next level and put them on probation. This means that instead of being "potential fraud" flagged, they are now "probation" flagged. You release the earlier signups back into their stats, but with one change; if you pay twice weekly, you now pay this affiliate once a month. If you pay monthly, sales for the current month are not paid the next, but one month after.

This gets you 2 things:
1) An affiliate, who might not like the fact he's getting paid late, but is still getting paid
2) Better control because you can still bump the affiliate back into a flagged state
3) If seriously excessive chargebacks do continue, you can deduct this from the affiliate's payout. If it gets really out of hand, toss affiliate back to the flagged state.

Of course this would require that you use an affiliate management system with half a clue that offers the functionality to do this. NATS is not it (personal bias, just ignore it if you want )

[Hit Man]

Wow this is like a shooting gallery in here... I guess most of you don't know me so that's ok to take cheap shots at me right? One thing I can say about JD is he definitely has class. Even though it was his account that was closed, and this is his issue, at no point (even during our conversations on icq) did he feel the need to insult me or try to correct my grammar or say anything in anger at all. He merely posted his situation to find some answers, and that is totally understandable.

I work hard at helping webmasters find answers to problems--that is my job. Unfortunately some of the answers I have for them aren't a good thing. In this case specifically I let him know the situation, apologized that I could not be of more help to him. He then let me know the circumstances ie number of sales etc. So I looked into this further and found out there was nothing I could do in this situation.

We have made some changes lately and, like all new things, may need some tweaking to be done. JD I will try to find out if something can be worked out for you, you obviously have a lot of credit here and like Greenie said that is definitely worth something.

[tickler]

Originally Posted by Hit Man

...... like all new things, may need some tweaking to be done.

Maybe a little more black boxing before going live.

I've had the opposite occur with sales(not CBs) at another sponsor a long time ago.

Because I trickle only sales to a lot of sites sometimes I will fluke and hit some extra sales. I've had scripts flag my account because it didn't like me making 3 sales on 10 hits.

Even after explaining to a rep that the script really needed to be modified to look at ratios over a much larger number of hits rather than just one period didn't seem to compute with them.

Guess they didn't want free stats/programming advice from somebody that's been at it since before they were born. Guess they didn't want my sales either.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Hit Man

Wow this is like a shooting gallery in here... I guess most of you don't know me so that's ok to take cheap shots at me right? One thing I can say about JD is he definitely has class. Even though it was his account that was closed, and this is his issue, at no point (even during our conversations on icq) did he feel the need to insult me or try to correct my grammar or say anything in anger at all. He merely posted his situation to find some answers, and that is totally understandable.

This is a very protective community -- typically not an every-man-for-himself atmosphere. My only issue with you was the second sentence of your first post, which I thought could have been delivered in a softer, friendlier manner. Otherwise, I'm not judging you or PR's reaction or charge back policy. If I worked for PR, or any other business for that matter, I'd work to protect its interests as well. If I knew you better, I'd probably be a better judge of your tone and I would have known whether or not you intended to sound "prickish" or if you're just a very busy matter-of-fact kind of guy.

By the way, I think your grammar is excellent -- especially for a message board.

PS. If you guys could come up with better, more eye-catching, odd-shaped banners for Porn.com and AE's All Adult Pass, I'd appreciate it. (600x300/400 is good for me. ) It's actually an industry-wide problem. Multi-site banner ads simply suck balls. They never seem to shout out what a great deal you're getting or that the site advertised is any different from a standard site.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

This is a very protective community -- typically not an every-man-for-himself atmosphere....

Of course, there are exceptions, like the post just above this one.

[Bobc01]

Originally Posted by Greenie

Of course, there are exceptions, like the post just above this one.

Sorry Greenie, i don't sell out as easy as you.

[Hit Man]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

PS. If you guys could come up with better, more eye-catching, odd-shaped banners for Porn.com and AE's All Adult Pass, I'd appreciate it. (600x300/400 is good for me. ) It's actually an industry-wide problem. Multi-site banner ads simply suck balls. They never seem to shout out what a great deal you're getting or that the site advertised is any different from a standard site.

not a problem, can shoot those over to one of our designers. They get backed up at times so can't say when they will be available exactly though. Hit me up on icq for specifics and I'll see what I can get done for you.

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[plateman]

strange thread, I know PR tom is good people, and I talked to PR dave a couple of times and he seems like a straight shooter

JD is a good submitter and trustable in my book

I never had any troubles with Pimproll, and adult elite I made a lot of money with them in the day

shit just happens in this biz

I learned early on when stuff like this happens to just let it go
or work something out, atleast the PR people are willing to find out what happened

Not like those cocksuckers I had problems with early on when I started in this biz, the older members on this board know who I am talking about

[Bobc01]

Originally Posted by Hit Man

Wow this is like a shooting gallery in here... I guess most of you don't know me so that's ok to take cheap shots at me right?

You mean in the same way you do with surfers and cross sales?

[Toby]

Hit Man, with all due respect, any policy that leaves no option but to terminate an honest and innocent webmaster is seriously flawed.

If the 3 sales are from a common source, and not linked to the affiliate other than by his ref code, how can he be held accountable? Did you read the thread that SheepGuy linked to above? In that case there were 5 fraudulent charges, and SheepGuy was completely innocent of any wrong doing.

PimpRoll needs to take a long hard look at how it handles these situations. As you have just found out, terminating an affiliate arbitrarily can have some major repercussions.

[Greenguy]

I think I worked more on this yesterday then I did my own work

I'm not sure what I can say & can't say, so I'm going to speak in very vague terms - just trust me.

After speaking via ICQ to Hit Man, Tom & David (The Pimp Roll Big Wig) I can say that I can see both sides very clearly. It's one of those situations where unavoidable mistakes were made. I say unavoidable because I know Pimp Roll doesn't have a better way of doing it. It's almost like fighting gravity. Every suggestion I threw at them was replied to with "Yes, we thought of that, but then this happens."

Does everyone remember the Zango thing where Jim & Sparky came up with the redirect? You put the code on your site, users with Zango toolbar were redirected to a page informing them of the spyware & how to get rid of it. This was all done in public. Zango then added a pop-up anytime there was a redirect, informing the surfer that we were basically full of shit.

Point is that when you let the cheater know how you caught them, they adjust & the process starts over again.

Pimp Roll is not going to tell any of us how they catch cheaters - and why would they?

David did tell me a lot of their methods in confidence, as well as a lot of the current methods being used by cheaters & I actually typed "WOW!" into our ICQ chat at least 2 times.

At the end of the conversation, we left it as this:
1 - JD's account was going to be personally looked at by David & more than likely he'll be reinstated.
2 - Pimp Roll is going to be altering one small part of their method so that a situation like this is less likely to happen again in the future.

I'd ask that no one hold any of this against Pimp Roll. There are very few sponsors that I truly have no problems with & they are one of them. They have one of the best programs out there, they have a ton of sites, they have great promo materials, they have great support (Hit Man was here within 12 minutes, regardless of if you liked his reply or not - lol), I trust them 100%

100%

[PR_Tom]

Thanks for the nice words, Greenie. And for taking the time out to check further about it.

[ArtWilliams]

This is why I love this board. Especially the happy endings!

[Greenguy]

I take my integrity very seriously, so I ask that you not even joke that there was anything behind the effort I put into this other than 2 parties that I consider friends having a disagreement.

[Bobc01]

Originally Posted by Greenie

I take my integrity very seriously, so I ask that you not even joke that there was anything behind the effort I put into this other than 2 parties that I consider friends having a disagreement.

You're absolutely right, who am i to judge cheap tactics by "your friends"

[Greenguy]

The keywords in that post are "who am i" because as far as I can tell, other than a rude bigot, you're nobody.

You've got no sig file & no site link in your profile. I can't remember you ever posting/talking about what site you own/run. The only thing I know about you is that you are 99.44% negative about EVERYTHING.

Yes, I do consider Pimp Roll to be my friends. Yes, they do have link codes with cross sales, but they are one of the few that also offer link codes without them.

But I assume you knew that, since you seem to know EVERYTHING.

It must be a lonely existence to be such a little hate filled man.