the future of tgps and link lists (maybe) - Page 2

swedguy · 2005-01-22, 03:03 PM

hmmm, the more I think about it the better it looks

If they pay a nominal fee to get access = proved themself that they have a CC and want to use it. Same as AVS.
Since the traffic is already pre-approved, it's of higher quality.
Submitters will realise that you have higher quality traffic = higher quality submits. <--- good reason why people would sign up and retain. Of course there's more things you can provide that make them sign up and retain, but that's one thing.

Tommy · 2005-01-22, 03:15 PM

I think A thumb tgp with a strong search engine presence would be perfect

Useless · 2005-01-22, 03:19 PM

I'd love to see you big traffic handlers go to a paid model. I'd finally get some traffic to my TGP.

I'd probably have to switch from a 10mbps pipe to a 100.

I say go for it!

Tommy · 2005-01-22, 03:22 PM

I would never take that big of a gamble with Tommys

I am working on anew tgp now and I am thinking about opening it free and then maybe 8 months later trying it

bestdutchrates · 2005-01-22, 03:23 PM

I like the idea but I also know that the biggest tgp owner out there wil never ever charge his visitors. And the rule is that the one who is the most succesfull, always has the true on his side.

just my cents

Chop Smith · 2005-01-22, 03:23 PM

I think TGFind.com had a 'surfing charge' a few years back. After viewed X number of the galleries listed, you would get a popup requiring you to register. I am thinking that it was 4.95 a month.

I just visited TGFind.com. They still have a to register but it redirected back to the index.

Tommy · 2005-01-22, 03:31 PM

ya know years ago I use to redirect some of my se traffic to a page asking the surfers to buy an AVS membership I dont remeber exactly but I think it did a good 40 sales a day

http://www.tommys-bookmarks.com/index1.html

Useless · 2005-01-22, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bestdutchrates

I like the idea but I also know that the biggest tgp owner out there wil never ever charge his visitors. And the rule is that the one who is the most succesfull, always has the true on his side.

just my cents

And that is the truth. The almighty Hun, who has made himself rich by providing the cleanest and most honest page, would have to add more servers to handle the influx from those unwilling to pay to see our indentical advertising. To quote Ross Perot (referring to NAFTA), 'there would be a huge sucking sound' made by the movement of surfers to other reliably free venues.

stuveltje · 2005-01-22, 06:01 PM

i never thought it would be a problem to pay some $ to submit to linksites or tgp, i know tommy you started a post about charging 3 years ago or so on the ans board i didnt found it a bad idea that time and i still think its a good idea, and my thoughts are if all are doing it, alot of "one day" webmasters will be away from the bizz, the webmasters are not forched to pay for submitting, they still can choose to submit to other linksites who dont ask money....so it isnt forching the submitters, i know people would complain if realy all linksites would do it, because lately its a trend that newbies start bizz with a linksite instead of free sites or other things, but then the choise is still to the submitter, they dont have to pay if they dont want to, i think not on the getting rich part, i think at that part that a seriouse submitter will pay to have they sites listen, i think many cheaters will disapear, just my point of view.....(oke back checking if the trojan is gone from my puter, i hate puters

!)

eman · 2005-01-22, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy

what if ALL the tgps and linklists charged the surfers a small price for access

like 5.00 a month

people like pk worldsex and the hun could be multi millionares overnight

75% of linklists/tgps would disappear because surfers would suss out the winners and losers.

In time some of the remaining 25% would drop the charge and gain market share by reverting to the "free" model.

This in turn would encourage others to follow the "free" model and things would eventually end up where they are now.

chilihost · 2005-01-22, 09:06 PM

My opinion, if thehun started charging $1 or 5 access fee per month, thehun would have almost zero traffic within a month as surfers would just go to another free place.

it would only work if all tgp owners did it at the exact same time...and if you can get agreement to that then I will personally start a free site that same day so I can get all that traffic!!!!!

cheers,
Luke

GeorgeTH · 2005-01-22, 09:53 PM

I actually think that as it stands now, with the quality of general submissions, paid spots partly taken up directly by sponsors (not gallery posters anymore), there is a tiny chance that it might work out with some specific rules:
· no sponsor content, none at all!
· no trade script, no other missleading links
= and above average experience for the surfer!

I turn this would probably attract some decent submissions, too, since the surfer has shown he/she is willing to pay.

But I agree with GG: we have tried it with AVS (which was good as long as it lasted), and after that I had actually tried briefly a micro-pay-system on my site for people to get to complete sets, but that failed badly...

Still - I would give it another go, particularly considering all the new micro billing options evolving, like SMS billing. Once they become more practical and worldwide accepted there could be a real chance, even if 1,000s of sites will continue giving away free porn.

RawAlex · 2005-01-23, 12:18 AM

Tommy, in a perfect world, it would work. If all the people listing free porn starting charging for it, well, we would make more money (if for no other reason, that we would stop paying for so much bandwidth!).

However, nature abhors a vacuum. If the top 10 links site and the top 10 TGPs start charging, the surfers just all go somewhere else. New free links and free TGPs would pop up, and your surfer base would pretty much disappear overnight.

The traffic you did send out would probably be better, as you would have filtered off all the freeloaders.

Of course, you could just turn tommy's into a low price membership site and get it over with. Nothing stopping you from charging for access to listings, I guess. I am not entirely sure how many people would be willing to give you free galleries so that you can make money, but that is another issue.

It's like TGP2 - a nice idea, but not as successful because the original TGPs and TGP galleries didn't go away. Instead, there are movie gallery posts, and they are WAY hotter than TGP2.

Alex

Opti · 2005-01-23, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy

I am just saying anything is possable

Now lets take it a step further.
The trades you have with other tgps and linksites
could have revshare codes in the link urls

I think this might make it possible... and incorporate a central public counter service too... that sells adpsots on behalf of each site like adbrite.com

Been working on a system like this for my personal network of sites.

whitey · 2005-01-23, 02:16 AM

Right before the visa regulations impacted avs's, we had a softcore, fetish tgp site that we began charging for access to the non blind site that included hardcore galleries.

We made a ton of cash in three months before the visa/avs shit hit the fan. The avs we were using for access kicked us off. We tried to get another avs interested, but it was not easy.

Once one had a billing model, the possibilities of marketing this concept are endless Tommy.

We are right there with you. The problem, im my mind, is the billing model. We have proven that the concept works already.

security_man · 2005-01-23, 04:04 AM

the key to it is to either have everyone do it at the same time, but like everyone has said that just wont happen (unless copa goes through and thats why i kinda hope it does <ducks the flying objects comming his way from other webmsaters for the blasphemy> LOL).

the other way to do it is to give the surfers something more than what they can get anywhere else for free.. not much more but something... kinda like AVS did but for some reason we have all poo pooed avs now too.

i wonder why it seems great ideas are usually the same ideas that already exist as bad ideas because they werent mouthed by big names in the industry?

Sean416 · 2005-01-23, 05:21 AM

I think the only real way this would happen is if the US implies some kind of law like all surfers have to enter a CC number in order to view any graphic images. Then you could charge a surfer a $5 lifetime membership to your TGP, link list or whatever. But if that were the case, I think it would have to be all FHG's and FHS's because the domains hosting the free content would have to be controlled. Otherwise you couldn't tell who is the TGP and who is the gallery submitter.

Did anybody else notice tommy's thought pattern? He just started charging for submits and now all the sudden he is thinking about charging surfers too... he's getting greedy! Musta made some nice money from the submits fee. LOL j/k tommy.

Greenguy · 2005-01-23, 06:08 AM

You know what I love - and this doesn't apply to Tommy (LOL)

The geniuses that run CJ's & blink link TGP's that think that they should be able to charge surfers for clean gallery links after fucking them over for the last 5 years

Greenguy · 2005-01-23, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean416

I think the only real way this would happen is if the US implies some kind of law....

You're in Canada - you of all people should know that the US does not make Internet Laws, no matter what our silly gov't thinks

security_man · 2005-01-23, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenguy

You know what I love - and this doesn't apply to Tommy (LOL)

The geniuses that run CJ's & blink link TGP's that think that they should be able to charge surfers for clean gallery links after fucking them over for the last 5 years

yeah, but wouldnt you if you could?

Linkster · 2005-01-23, 08:14 AM

Tommy - if you remember - I was one of the few that agreed with you back in the day when we were discussing paid submits a few years ago

I happen to agree with you on this as well - for a few reasons.
First - from a biz model as you mentioned, we have been screwing ourselves for years to make money for sponsors - and they in turn have taken it further with the addition of free hosted galleries and loads of free content for submits, leading to the "easy path" for a bunch of new WMs and killing off a few big content companies in their path.
Second - and I think that there is a low buzz already developing about this - the organizational side of this biz has always been lacking - people have developed into small groups, but never a large "association" that worked towards the benefit of the people that do the real work in the biz (traffic generators)
Third - A lot of self regulation done early on our side would lead to less future attempts at regulation from the outside, and some people still look at the internet as a wild wild west - it still "seems" that way, but with everything from lawsuits to international treaties in the works already to regulate the internet, this will change - and we better be ready.
Last - there are some technical issues that will have to be handled ranging from issues with SE's caching and image hotlinking (copywrite issues) to handling WMs in countries that tend not to care about self regulation but I truly believe that can all be worked out to everyones benefit.
I say we should definitely not let this one drop for a few years like we did with the paid submits

mrMagoo · 2005-01-23, 08:48 AM

A federal court dismissed obscenity charges against extreme associates, here is the article http://www.avn.com/index.php?Primary...tent_ID=214089

One of the reasons cited for dropping the charges was that extreme associates has their content behind a member's area that can only be accessed with a credit card.

So charging with a credit card gives you some protection.

Tommy · 2005-01-23, 10:09 AM

you guys keep talking about the hun

when extreame paychecks opens 5 new paysites the huns traffic doesnt go up

I am not gonna change over Tommys and even if everyone else did it I would be the last man holding the fort Kicking and screaming BUT I am very tempted In fact I am gonna
try it on a new tgp and go around premoting my new paid tgp like its a sponsor

now lets say this tgp makes truckloads of money
think about it, look at nasty dollars they were the first that got in to reality content
and now they are one of the biggest sponsors around

do you wanna be one of the johnny come Latelys

Remember worldsex got sold for like a million dollars what if worldsex could have charged the surfers a small price and made 2 million in the first 4 months
dont you think he would have done it ??????

Sooner or later the Ambulance chasers will find this industry and living in holland isnt gonna help you, If you do buisness in the USA they can get your money

I am not spreading doom and gloom rumors
This is a vision maybe a prediction, Maybe a fantasy

Chop Smith · 2005-01-23, 10:27 AM

Damn right, Tommy. Go for it Buddy!

SirMoby · 2005-01-23, 11:10 AM

As usual Tommy, your idea has a lot of merit. The first thing that popped into my mind was AVS. Remember the Visa regulations did NOT kill the AVS companies but only made them change their marketing and some folded at that time because they were already loosing money. AVS companies were loosing members because they had terrible sites in the network. Some AVS companies still exists and the sites, the content and the navigation makes for one of the worst porn surfing experiences that can be found on-line today. Just go surf Adult Check and see if you can get a boner.

A Mr. Mary Lou, a GG or a Tommy running something like that would push for quality sites and keep growing the member base.

If surfers come to your site they will buy. The Home Shopping Network should be proof enough that people will buy anything at any time for reasons that no one can possibly understand. They will buy your memberships.

If you had a strong network of porn sites that could only be had at Tommy’s money site then the surfers would not only buy they would also renew month after month.

I don’t see this as a replacement for free porn but I do see this as a new revenue stream. It will work if implemented correctly.

2005-01-22, 03:15 PM	#27
Tommy NYC Boy That Moved To The Island Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,940	I think A thumb tgp with a strong search engine presence would be perfect __________________ Accepting New partners

2005-01-22, 03:19 PM	#28
Useless Certified Nice Person Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Dirty Undies, NY Posts: 11,268	I'd love to see you big traffic handlers go to a paid model. I'd finally get some traffic to my TGP. I'd probably have to switch from a 10mbps pipe to a 100. I say go for it! __________________ Click here to purchase a bridge I'm selling.

2005-01-22, 03:22 PM	#29
Tommy NYC Boy That Moved To The Island Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,940	I would never take that big of a gamble with Tommys I am working on anew tgp now and I am thinking about opening it free and then maybe 8 months later trying it __________________ Accepting New partners

2005-01-22, 03:23 PM	#30
bestdutchrates Rock stars ... is there anything they don't know? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 10	I like the idea but I also know that the biggest tgp owner out there wil never ever charge his visitors. And the rule is that the one who is the most succesfull, always has the true on his side. just my cents __________________ Int. billing services - www.flatbox.nl icq # 215328433

2005-01-22, 03:23 PM	#31
Chop Smith Eighteen 'til I Die Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,168	I think TGFind.com had a 'surfing charge' a few years back. After viewed X number of the galleries listed, you would get a popup requiring you to register. I am thinking that it was 4.95 a month. I just visited TGFind.com. They still have a to register but it redirected back to the index. __________________

2005-01-22, 03:03 PM	#26
swedguy Vagabond Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,374	hmmm, the more I think about it the better it looks If they pay a nominal fee to get access = proved themself that they have a CC and want to use it. Same as AVS. Since the traffic is already pre-approved, it's of higher quality. Submitters will realise that you have higher quality traffic = higher quality submits. <--- good reason why people would sign up and retain. Of course there's more things you can provide that make them sign up and retain, but that's one thing.

2005-01-22, 03:31 PM	#32
Tommy NYC Boy That Moved To The Island Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,940	ya know years ago I use to redirect some of my se traffic to a page asking the surfers to buy an AVS membership I dont remeber exactly but I think it did a good 40 sales a day http://www.tommys-bookmarks.com/index1.html __________________ Accepting New partners

2005-01-22, 06:01 PM	#34
stuveltje Live and learn. And take very careful notes! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Sunny Holland Posts: 6,157	i never thought it would be a problem to pay some $ to submit to linksites or tgp, i know tommy you started a post about charging 3 years ago or so on the ans board i didnt found it a bad idea that time and i still think its a good idea, and my thoughts are if all are doing it, alot of "one day" webmasters will be away from the bizz, the webmasters are not forched to pay for submitting, they still can choose to submit to other linksites who dont ask money....so it isnt forching the submitters, i know people would complain if realy all linksites would do it, because lately its a trend that newbies start bizz with a linksite instead of free sites or other things, but then the choise is still to the submitter, they dont have to pay if they dont want to, i think not on the getting rich part, i think at that part that a seriouse submitter will pay to have they sites listen, i think many cheaters will disapear, just my point of view.....(oke back checking if the trojan is gone from my puter, i hate puters!) __________________ Canadian Sexlinks - submit Erotica search -submit

2005-01-22, 09:06 PM	#36
chilihost Look at 'em. Watchin' my TV. Sittin on my couch. You better not be in my ass groove! Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 465	My opinion, if thehun started charging $1 or 5 access fee per month, thehun would have almost zero traffic within a month as surfers would just go to another free place. it would only work if all tgp owners did it at the exact same time...and if you can get agreement to that then I will personally start a free site that same day so I can get all that traffic!!!!! cheers, Luke __________________ HunkMoney+BritishBucks+LatinoBucks=50+ gay sites!

2005-01-22, 09:53 PM	#37
GeorgeTH Don't let a programmer design your front-end pages! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: currently on the road in CA Posts: 781	I actually think that as it stands now, with the quality of general submissions, paid spots partly taken up directly by sponsors (not gallery posters anymore), there is a tiny chance that it might work out with some specific rules: · no sponsor content, none at all! · no trade script, no other missleading links = and above average experience for the surfer! I turn this would probably attract some decent submissions, too, since the surfer has shown he/she is willing to pay. But I agree with GG: we have tried it with AVS (which was good as long as it lasted), and after that I had actually tried briefly a micro-pay-system on my site for people to get to complete sets, but that failed badly... Still - I would give it another go, particularly considering all the new micro billing options evolving, like SMS billing. Once they become more practical and worldwide accepted there could be a real chance, even if 1,000s of sites will continue giving away free porn.

2005-01-23, 12:18 AM	#38
RawAlex Took the hint. Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 5,597	Tommy, in a perfect world, it would work. If all the people listing free porn starting charging for it, well, we would make more money (if for no other reason, that we would stop paying for so much bandwidth!). However, nature abhors a vacuum. If the top 10 links site and the top 10 TGPs start charging, the surfers just all go somewhere else. New free links and free TGPs would pop up, and your surfer base would pretty much disappear overnight. The traffic you did send out would probably be better, as you would have filtered off all the freeloaders. Of course, you could just turn tommy's into a low price membership site and get it over with. Nothing stopping you from charging for access to listings, I guess. I am not entirely sure how many people would be willing to give you free galleries so that you can make money, but that is another issue. It's like TGP2 - a nice idea, but not as successful because the original TGPs and TGP galleries didn't go away. Instead, there are movie gallery posts, and they are WAY hotter than TGP2. Alex

2005-01-23, 02:16 AM	#40
whitey Hey, can you take the wheel for a second, I have to scratch my self in two places at once Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 186	Right before the visa regulations impacted avs's, we had a softcore, fetish tgp site that we began charging for access to the non blind site that included hardcore galleries. We made a ton of cash in three months before the visa/avs shit hit the fan. The avs we were using for access kicked us off. We tried to get another avs interested, but it was not easy. Once one had a billing model, the possibilities of marketing this concept are endless Tommy. We are right there with you. The problem, im my mind, is the billing model. We have proven that the concept works already.

2005-01-23, 04:04 AM	#41
security_man Are you sure this is the Sci-Fi Convention? It's full of nerds! Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 260	the key to it is to either have everyone do it at the same time, but like everyone has said that just wont happen (unless copa goes through and thats why i kinda hope it does <ducks the flying objects comming his way from other webmsaters for the blasphemy> LOL). the other way to do it is to give the surfers something more than what they can get anywhere else for free.. not much more but something... kinda like AVS did but for some reason we have all poo pooed avs now too. i wonder why it seems great ideas are usually the same ideas that already exist as bad ideas because they werent mouthed by big names in the industry? __________________ <a href="http://www.linkalotapuss.com/home.php" target="_blank"><font face="Trebuchet MS">Linkalotapuss.com</a> - Submit your sites</font>

2005-01-23, 05:21 AM	#42
Sean416 Ahhh ... sweet pity. Where would my love life be without it? Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto Posts: 207	I think the only real way this would happen is if the US implies some kind of law like all surfers have to enter a CC number in order to view any graphic images. Then you could charge a surfer a $5 lifetime membership to your TGP, link list or whatever. But if that were the case, I think it would have to be all FHG's and FHS's because the domains hosting the free content would have to be controlled. Otherwise you couldn't tell who is the TGP and who is the gallery submitter. Did anybody else notice tommy's thought pattern? He just started charging for submits and now all the sudden he is thinking about charging surfers too... he's getting greedy! Musta made some nice money from the submits fee. LOL j/k tommy. __________________ Submit to More Porn For Me Interested in Link Exchanges?

2005-01-23, 06:08 AM	#43
Greenguy The Original Greenguy (Est'd 1996) & AVN HOF Member - I Crop Pics For Thumbs In My Sleep Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Blasdell, NY (shithole suburb south of Buffalo) Posts: 41,929	You know what I love - and this doesn't apply to Tommy (LOL) The geniuses that run CJ's & blink link TGP's that think that they should be able to charge surfers for clean gallery links after fucking them over for the last 5 years __________________ Promote POV Porn Cash By Building & Submitting Galleries to the Porn Luv Network

2005-01-23, 08:14 AM	#46
Linkster NO! Im not a female - but being a dragon, I do eat them. Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sex Delta Posts: 5,084	Tommy - if you remember - I was one of the few that agreed with you back in the day when we were discussing paid submits a few years ago I happen to agree with you on this as well - for a few reasons. First - from a biz model as you mentioned, we have been screwing ourselves for years to make money for sponsors - and they in turn have taken it further with the addition of free hosted galleries and loads of free content for submits, leading to the "easy path" for a bunch of new WMs and killing off a few big content companies in their path. Second - and I think that there is a low buzz already developing about this - the organizational side of this biz has always been lacking - people have developed into small groups, but never a large "association" that worked towards the benefit of the people that do the real work in the biz (traffic generators) Third - A lot of self regulation done early on our side would lead to less future attempts at regulation from the outside, and some people still look at the internet as a wild wild west - it still "seems" that way, but with everything from lawsuits to international treaties in the works already to regulate the internet, this will change - and we better be ready. Last - there are some technical issues that will have to be handled ranging from issues with SE's caching and image hotlinking (copywrite issues) to handling WMs in countries that tend not to care about self regulation but I truly believe that can all be worked out to everyones benefit. I say we should definitely not let this one drop for a few years like we did with the paid submits __________________ Pussy Chompers Porn Links NSCash

2005-01-23, 08:48 AM	#47
mrMagoo Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand! Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 96	A federal court dismissed obscenity charges against extreme associates, here is the article http://www.avn.com/index.php?Primary...tent_ID=214089 One of the reasons cited for dropping the charges was that extreme associates has their content behind a member's area that can only be accessed with a credit card. So charging with a credit card gives you some protection.

2005-01-23, 10:09 AM	#48
Tommy NYC Boy That Moved To The Island Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,940	you guys keep talking about the hun when extreame paychecks opens 5 new paysites the huns traffic doesnt go up I am not gonna change over Tommys and even if everyone else did it I would be the last man holding the fort Kicking and screaming BUT I am very tempted In fact I am gonna try it on a new tgp and go around premoting my new paid tgp like its a sponsor now lets say this tgp makes truckloads of money think about it, look at nasty dollars they were the first that got in to reality content and now they are one of the biggest sponsors around do you wanna be one of the johnny come Latelys Remember worldsex got sold for like a million dollars what if worldsex could have charged the surfers a small price and made 2 million in the first 4 months dont you think he would have done it ?????? Sooner or later the Ambulance chasers will find this industry and living in holland isnt gonna help you, If you do buisness in the USA they can get your money I am not spreading doom and gloom rumors This is a vision maybe a prediction, Maybe a fantasy __________________ Accepting New partners

2005-01-23, 10:27 AM	#49
Chop Smith Eighteen 'til I Die Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,168	Damn right, Tommy. Go for it Buddy! __________________

2005-01-23, 11:10 AM	#50
SirMoby Jim? I heard he's a dirty pornographer. Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 2,706	As usual Tommy, your idea has a lot of merit. The first thing that popped into my mind was AVS. Remember the Visa regulations did NOT kill the AVS companies but only made them change their marketing and some folded at that time because they were already loosing money. AVS companies were loosing members because they had terrible sites in the network. Some AVS companies still exists and the sites, the content and the navigation makes for one of the worst porn surfing experiences that can be found on-line today. Just go surf Adult Check and see if you can get a boner. A Mr. Mary Lou, a GG or a Tommy running something like that would push for quality sites and keep growing the member base. If surfers come to your site they will buy. The Home Shopping Network should be proof enough that people will buy anything at any time for reasons that no one can possibly understand. They will buy your memberships. If you had a strong network of porn sites that could only be had at Tommy’s money site then the surfers would not only buy they would also renew month after month. I don’t see this as a replacement for free porn but I do see this as a new revenue stream. It will work if implemented correctly.