Surfer-Submitted Photos - Page 2

cheeky · 2003-09-03, 02:36 AM

Hi Stuveltje

The new 2257 requires you to have the custodian of records listed on every page of your site... not just the warning page....

The custodian of records is the person who owns the images... so for example... if I bought a set of pics from Paul Markham then the custodian of records would be him or his photographer who has all the legal documentation.... 2 forms of id - proof of age and signed model releases....

Now with a site like this - sure it can be done... however just having on a page that the models were over the age of 18 at the time that the photos were taken is not good enough anymore.... Where is the proof that the images belong the person who sends the email to the guy running the site????

Better still - where is that image viewed, where is the link list or site hosted???? Doesn't matter which country you are in, if a US citizen can view porn on his pc using the internet and is offended by what he sees then the dutch law, the australian law... the figian law doesn't come into it..... or for that matter the UK law doesn't come into it either....

Take note of what Greenguy said... which seems to have been missed a little by some....

Quote:

I don't think I'd do it again without the proper licenses & releases

stuveltje · 2003-09-03, 02:49 AM

Marie

i totally agree with what you said, but just like you mention GG quote, i mention something the same in my first post

Quote:

yeah there is the but, i would send them an email or contract wich says they will agree with the rules that the pics will be posted on a adult site + i like to see an identitie for age , and some other legal things!

Because yes , you know i mention to you a while ago, i am working on a thing where the surfers are involved and this mentioned here has all to do with the site i am working on!

2003-09-03, 02:51 AM

Sorry if I did not say what you wanted to hear, but I talk straight and there is very rarely any malice in my intentions. You wanted someone with experience well how about 25 years shooting & selling porn?

The Internet is not judged by different rules than anything else when it comes to this question. You post a nude picture of a girl without the proper preperations, you could be lining yourself up for a lot of problems.

Don't bother asking an Internet lawyer just ask a lawyer who knows publication laws and ask him what wil happen if;

(1) You post a picture of a 15 year old in the UK?

(2) Or a 17 year old who signed a model release?

(3) Or a person who did not give permission to have their pictures posted on the net?

Answers.

(1) Go to jail and be listed as a sex offender.
(2) Her parents have to sign the model release she is not old enough.
(3) Hope their family have not got enough money to sue you.

And the bottom line is Visa are changing the rules and making it twice as tough as it needs to be, why? Because of people who want to put up pictures without 2257, model releases and the proper preperation.

Or think if they are in Holland they can do as they please. Fine then find a Dutch dialer to take the business, while the rest suffer.

If you want to make money go around searching ell the content providers for amateur pictures there are 1,000 of sets that will do the job. Plus you will be legal and above board. Downside is it will cost you money.

stuveltje · 2003-09-03, 03:09 AM

he just got an idea and want to try that, and yes then you have to deal with legal stuff and all, and we all know that!!!Sometimes you can have an idea but dont know the all ins and out of it, and you find out its harder to make that idea happen then you thought........thats bizz learning and exploring and thats why he posted on this board, nothing bad just asking advice! Yeah and the dutch rules suck, and we all know that not one country can make the rules for the whole world!

kristian · 2003-09-03, 03:22 AM

Paul - I agree with what you're saying, just not with your aggressive and argumentative tone. I came here for help from people with your experience, not to hear presumptions about A) how much money I have, B) what I intend to do and C) how I intend to do it.

I have enough money not to work ever again. I work in this industry because I'm hoping to eventuallu actualize an ambition with a different professional agenda. I also shoot my own content - certainly not on your scale - and buy regularly from 5 different providers.

I came here for help. And, just in case no one tells you, there are good ways and bad for offering advice.

If anyone has a problem with me, send me your address and we'll discuss it in person. I'll be in the states for a vacation after I move house in a couple of weeks. I'd be more than happy to sit down with you and discuss your issues. Actually, I think I'd find it incredibly rewarding, both in clearing up any anamosity you might have towards me and picking your brains - since I clearly know very little

PM me or email ksellers@btopenworld.com

Thanks

cheeky · 2003-09-03, 03:24 AM

Quote:

yeah there is the but, i would send them an email or contract wich says they will agree with the rules that the pics will be posted on a adult site + i like to see an identitie for age , and some other legal things!

I like this idea... but how many would do it.... how many of them will sign something they don't understand..... how many will lie saying they belong to the pic??? how do you know that they do or don't, unless they are in the pic itself....

A lot of people won't want to give you their information, they don't know who you are, they are dealing with a faceless person on the internet, someone who is suddenly asking for the personal information.... the same as a faceless person is sending in a pic which may belong to them... or then again, it may not....

Using amateur content - like Paul says will make it legal.... the models see a person, they hand over the ID that is required along with signed model releases which are kept by the custodian of records.... and yes its going to cost something for the images which will give the webmaster a license to use that content... but at least then you won't go to jail or be sued for posting pics that don't belong to the faceless emailer...

So learning something new everyday is what this business is all about, unfortunately some don't like to be told the downside of the adult business....

This thread is very interesting indeed....

Greenguy · 2003-09-03, 04:18 AM

How did this thread turn into what it is now? LOL

I can only give advice based on US laws, which state that you MUST have a model release or license to use the content that is on your site.....PERIOD.

I'm sure there are alot of popular websites that accept surfer submitted pics - this does not mean it's legal.

If you're US based, don't put anything up that you don't have paperwork for - plain & simple.

If you're not US based, contact a lawyer in your cournty for the legal terms & whatnot. Also, don't be surprised if you don't get link trades because your laws differer from mine. Just because it's legal where you live doesn't mean I'm gonna link to it

Be legal = stay safe

stuveltje · 2003-09-03, 04:31 AM

Quote:

I like this idea... but how many would do it.... how many of them will sign something they don't understand..... how many will lie saying they belong to the pic??? how do you know that they do or don't, unless they are in the pic itself....

oke , what i told are some possibllitys, what if a make an appointment with those people and see thm face to face and explain them the rules and lett them sign the papers, i have spoke with my dutch laywer about this, because i wanna know the dutch side and the us side, for us i cant make an appointment with the people but for the dutch i can! so many possiblitys, but i am going to wonder if this is about getting free pics for your site and taking money away from the content providers or just rules........ anyway i hope all works out and these kind of threads are good to see what everybody thinks........ Have a great day all!!!

kristian · 2003-09-03, 04:49 AM

Apologies

Listen, I know I've come across sounding a little harsh in this forum. I'm sorry if that's pissed anyone off. Probably it's the way I write, my tone (and some what I've said). If you could actually hear/see me though, you'd know that I genuinely only want to learn from you people and make a few friends on the way. When it comes to this business, I know only a handful of what I should, but I suppose my enthusiasm makes me as opinionated as I am hungry to learn.

I also hate finding out that I'm wrong

Sorry )

Paul is still a wanker tho! (KIDDING)

2003-09-03, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Paul is still a wanker tho!

I know, that's why I've lasted so long. Empathy with the consumer.

Jim · 2003-09-03, 05:08 AM

I did that with my first site, JamesandVictoria. We made it such a hastle that not a lot of people submitted pictures. We accepted the pics and then sent model releases to the submitters and would not post them until we had them in hand. Some of the pictures were crazy and took a lot of cropping. One woman sent us a picture of her standing next to a bed with a 2 or 3 year old boy standing next to her. What the hell are people thinking?

kristian · 2003-09-03, 05:18 AM

Paul

Lucky for me I'm not one of your customers |pissleft| he he

Jim

That kind of situation has pretty much turned me off the idea. I suppose it's the problem that always occurs when you deal with the masses who don't hold professional ethics.

Another question for Jim or anyone else who might want to chime in:

What do you reckon about faking it with paid amateur content? Fake tgps - if you have enough and the traffic - work okay. What do you think?

DangerDave · 2003-09-03, 06:32 AM

As far as I know 2257 is an untested law.. as in .. no case has ever gone to court... someone want to correct me...??

So despite laws and arguments, saying that something is "illegal" is sort of "wrong" till it is tested..

If you do it, you should be aware of the consequences, as with the rest of your biz.

DD

Extreme John · 2003-09-03, 06:58 AM

Holly shit I went to bed at 3am and this thread had moths at best, now it's a full fledged 2 pager....

2003-09-03, 03:09 AM	#29
stuveltje Live and learn. And take very careful notes! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Sunny Holland Posts: 6,157	he just got an idea and want to try that, and yes then you have to deal with legal stuff and all, and we all know that!!!Sometimes you can have an idea but dont know the all ins and out of it, and you find out its harder to make that idea happen then you thought........thats bizz learning and exploring and thats why he posted on this board, nothing bad just asking advice! Yeah and the dutch rules suck, and we all know that not one country can make the rules for the whole world! __________________ Canadian Sexlinks - submit Erotica search -submit Last edited by stuveltje; 2003-09-03 at 03:12 AM..

2003-09-03, 04:18 AM	#32
Greenguy The Original Greenguy (Est'd 1996) & AVN HOF Member - I Crop Pics For Thumbs In My Sleep Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Blasdell, NY (shithole suburb south of Buffalo) Posts: 41,929	How did this thread turn into what it is now? LOL I can only give advice based on US laws, which state that you MUST have a model release or license to use the content that is on your site.....PERIOD. I'm sure there are alot of popular websites that accept surfer submitted pics - this does not mean it's legal. If you're US based, don't put anything up that you don't have paperwork for - plain & simple. If you're not US based, contact a lawyer in your cournty for the legal terms & whatnot. Also, don't be surprised if you don't get link trades because your laws differer from mine. Just because it's legal where you live doesn't mean I'm gonna link to it Be legal = stay safe __________________ Promote POV Porn Cash By Building & Submitting Galleries to the Porn Luv Network

2003-09-03, 06:32 AM	#38
DangerDave Bonged Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: BrisVegas, AUSTRALIA Posts: 4,882	As far as I know 2257 is an untested law.. as in .. no case has ever gone to court... someone want to correct me...?? So despite laws and arguments, saying that something is "illegal" is sort of "wrong" till it is tested.. If you do it, you should be aware of the consequences, as with the rest of your biz. DD __________________ Old Dollars >>>> Now with over 90 Hosted Free Sites <<<< DangerDave.com.au - Adult Links to Free Porn

2003-09-03, 06:58 AM	#39
Extreme John Afro John says: "Touch The Extreme Afro & You'll Be In Extreme Pain!" Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: FL Posts: 1,671	Holly shit I went to bed at 3am and this thread had moths at best, now it's a full fledged 2 pager.... __________________ September 6, 2007

2003-09-03, 02:51 AM	#28
Paul Markham2 Guest Posts: n/a	Sorry if I did not say what you wanted to hear, but I talk straight and there is very rarely any malice in my intentions. You wanted someone with experience well how about 25 years shooting & selling porn? The Internet is not judged by different rules than anything else when it comes to this question. You post a nude picture of a girl without the proper preperations, you could be lining yourself up for a lot of problems. Don't bother asking an Internet lawyer just ask a lawyer who knows publication laws and ask him what wil happen if; (1) You post a picture of a 15 year old in the UK? (2) Or a 17 year old who signed a model release? (3) Or a person who did not give permission to have their pictures posted on the net? Answers. (1) Go to jail and be listed as a sex offender. (2) Her parents have to sign the model release she is not old enough. (3) Hope their family have not got enough money to sue you. And the bottom line is Visa are changing the rules and making it twice as tough as it needs to be, why? Because of people who want to put up pictures without 2257, model releases and the proper preperation. Or think if they are in Holland they can do as they please. Fine then find a Dutch dialer to take the business, while the rest suffer. If you want to make money go around searching ell the content providers for amateur pictures there are 1,000 of sets that will do the job. Plus you will be legal and above board. Downside is it will cost you money.

2003-09-03, 03:22 AM	#30
kristian Porn Movie Peddler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Malta (France In Nov) Posts: 1,631	Paul - I agree with what you're saying, just not with your aggressive and argumentative tone. I came here for help from people with your experience, not to hear presumptions about A) how much money I have, B) what I intend to do and C) how I intend to do it. I have enough money not to work ever again. I work in this industry because I'm hoping to eventuallu actualize an ambition with a different professional agenda. I also shoot my own content - certainly not on your scale - and buy regularly from 5 different providers. I came here for help. And, just in case no one tells you, there are good ways and bad for offering advice. If anyone has a problem with me, send me your address and we'll discuss it in person. I'll be in the states for a vacation after I move house in a couple of weeks. I'd be more than happy to sit down with you and discuss your issues. Actually, I think I'd find it incredibly rewarding, both in clearing up any anamosity you might have towards me and picking your brains - since I clearly know very little PM me or email ksellers@btopenworld.com Thanks

2003-09-03, 04:49 AM	#34
kristian Porn Movie Peddler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Malta (France In Nov) Posts: 1,631	Apologies Listen, I know I've come across sounding a little harsh in this forum. I'm sorry if that's pissed anyone off. Probably it's the way I write, my tone (and some what I've said). If you could actually hear/see me though, you'd know that I genuinely only want to learn from you people and make a few friends on the way. When it comes to this business, I know only a handful of what I should, but I suppose my enthusiasm makes me as opinionated as I am hungry to learn. I also hate finding out that I'm wrong Sorry ) Paul is still a wanker tho! (KIDDING)

2003-09-03, 05:08 AM	#36
Jim Banned Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Mohawk, New York Posts: 19,477	I did that with my first site, JamesandVictoria. We made it such a hastle that not a lot of people submitted pictures. We accepted the pics and then sent model releases to the submitters and would not post them until we had them in hand. Some of the pictures were crazy and took a lot of cropping. One woman sent us a picture of her standing next to a bed with a 2 or 3 year old boy standing next to her. What the hell are people thinking?

2003-09-03, 05:18 AM	#37
kristian Porn Movie Peddler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Malta (France In Nov) Posts: 1,631	Paul Lucky for me I'm not one of your customers \|pissleft\| he he Jim That kind of situation has pretty much turned me off the idea. I suppose it's the problem that always occurs when you deal with the masses who don't hold professional ethics. Another question for Jim or anyone else who might want to chime in: What do you reckon about faking it with paid amateur content? Fake tgps - if you have enough and the traffic - work okay. What do you think?