a affiliate who uses my content for evil

[crockett]

Originally posted by Ramster
Torn DIDN'T shut the guy down. He asked the guy to remove the content by emailing him and emailing his host. That's it. His host shut him down so he needs to deal with the host by not giving him the 24 hours Torn gave him to remove the galleries.

Cut Torn a break, he's not an ass.

Thumb TGPS that skim are here to stay and a huge part of sponsors making money. Be real! Call it CJ or whatever you want but they send valid customers to the hosted galleries that do buy memberships.

well I know my personal 1st post might have been a bit to strong on the issue and I do believe Thorn has every right in the world to dictate how his content is being used. However the facts I was pointing out is it's general knowledge that TGP's use these kinds of methods to gain traffic and most of us do not conceder it cheating. So I personally think if he didn't want traffic from sites that skim, it should be clearly stated in a TOS. I think most of this drama comes from people that either don't agree with traffic trading or just don't understand it's benefits.

I personally took offense to someone being called a called or implied a cheater simply because I conduct the same sort of traffic trading techniques and I in no way conceder myself a cheater. I typically stay away from pop up's but in all honestly adult webmasters have become far too nice to surfers in not having pop ups on their sites and so on. Pop up's still seem to be a very accepted means of making money in mainstream sites so why not still in adult? Of course I'm not talking pop up hells but 1 pop up or a exit console never hurt anyone IMO.

As far as the toolbar install goes I think koot explained it was from the free host. I tend to believe him being I've seen it happen a few times coming from free hosts or free counters such as porngraph.

[tgpguy]

Originally posted by Jim
I agree with you almost 100%. If I was the sponsor in question, I would be happy to let anyone do anything they wanted with content I "gave away". To me...it's just good business. I have had the same feelings since the very beginning and don't think they will ever change.

But, if you look at Torn's first post, you will see that one of the problems is the content was being used" to help install whatever crap he is trying to install." I believe that would be "the damn "xxx toolbar"" that you mention or something just as bad. Would I go out policing my content to make sure it wasn't being used for that...No. But, if I stumbled on someone using my content to install something, I think I would be pissed off. I would have written to the advertiser and asked him to stop. I would not have gotten any host involved until I was sure that didn't work. And I would not have terminated the advertiser's account. But, that's just me. I also believe that if you are going to "give away" content and you have rules about using it, you should make sure they are posted clearly.

Until GreenguyandJim, I did nothing but run and market affiliate programs. I believe that is why my thoughts on this subject differ so much from the other regulars on GreenguyandJim. I have always been about the business of making money for the affiliate program. I don't think you will see sponsors coming out of the woodwork saying they would allow this type of thing. Just as you will not see sponsors saying they allow email spamming. But, most of them do. That's just the way it is.

Torn, you and I should really sit down and talk in Florida

Jim,

You are absolutely right 100%..........but this thread has taken on a life of it's own. I think it departed from the original intent about reply number 3. If I was a sponsor offering content for surfers I would be highly pissed. Nasty Dollars has people on staff to ensure that their content is not "stolen" or used in any way not in accordance with their TOS. Skimming is not a good thing at all, as a matter of fact I dislike it immensly, but it serves it's purpose in that if you strike a balance your site can grow in size and get bookmarks. I think most will agree that this is simply a collision of two different "worlds" within the online adult community. And at the end of the day GG would be able to step into the TGP game and have a lot easier time at it than I would have stepping into the link list game, it is all about traffic and sellingn

[tgpguy]

And on the other hand, I think Torn is well on his way to learning a valuable lesson in this biz wether he knows it or not............Just a damn shame it is going to eat up an entire sector of the market to teach him that lesson

I wish him the best as I don't think he would have wanted it to happen that way. As a matter of fact I would be willing to bet you that a ton of the TGP webmasters are looking at his site and having a good look at the content so they can recognize it at a glance and swiftly decline any gallery or sponsor link submitted to them promoting his stuff........indeed it is sad

[rowan]

Originally posted by Meadint
Rowan, the issue is not about posting thumbs of other peoples images. That is toltally legal ... as long as the thumbnail is linked to the actual image (gallery). The problem here is the skimming: That a certain percentage of the clicks will go to something else than the image (gallery). There has been no ruling about that by any court as far as I know.

I agree with Greenguy and Torn that it is probably technical illegal to post thumbnails on a thumb tgp that skims a certain percentage of traffic to trades. I don't really see why Torn should put in his T&C that use of his images on a skimming thumb tgp is not allowed, when it is probably technically illegal according to the copyright legislation.

I may be wrong, but I don't recall seeing anything in that ruling saying "thumbnails are fine so long as they link to the original content" ... it just says that using thumbnails does not violate copyright.

[rowan]

http://www.katcash.com/htm/content.htm

Every link I try off this page goes to a 404 redirect with a couple of pops.

What were we saying about stealing traffic?

[Torn Rose]

Thanks rowan for pointing this bug out. I made all my galleries and take full responsibility. They worked for me when I read your post but not for my wife, and thanks to good timing my best friend came over 2 mins later and being the script wiz that he is it took us 5 mins to find what the issue was.

<script language="JavaScript">

<!--
var g_Browser = navigator.appName;

if (g_Browser == "Netscape")
self.location.replace("1.wmv");
//-->
</script>

This is somehow included in my hosted movies, maybe due to the embedded videos, I’m not sure. Try them in IE and then let me know if they work.

Unfortunately we are on out way out the door and I will fix this bug as soon as I can.

[Bangwang]

For The Record:

Silvercash has no problem with links to our hosted galleries from a thumb of our content, having a percentage of clicks redirected for tgp traffic trades.

Why would we???


If you have a question... E me..

bangwang @ silver.......



Richard
3688149

[Jim]

Bangwang
Good to see you, welcome to GreenguyandJim.

[Greenguy]

Hey Bangwang

Man, this thread is bring people out of the woodwork!

[Cleo]

Originally posted by Torn
Thanks rowan for pointing this bug out. I made all my galleries and take full responsibility. They worked for me when I read your post but not for my wife, and thanks to good timing my best friend came over 2 mins later and being the script wiz that he is it took us 5 mins to find what the issue was.

<script language="JavaScript">

<!--
var g_Browser = navigator.appName;

if (g_Browser == "Netscape")
self.location.replace("1.wmv");
//-->
</script>

This is somehow included in my hosted movies, maybe due to the embedded videos, I’m not sure. Try them in IE and then let me know if they work.

Unfortunately we are on out way out the door and I will fix this bug as soon as I can.

I didn't add your stuff in because of this. I don't use IE and as soon as I got a 404 I stopped looking at them. Been meaning to mention it to you but kept on forgetting.

[Bangwang]

Hey Jim ... Hey Mark


I'm just a board luker



See you in Hollywood?

[Mike]

Originally posted by Bangwang
For The Record:

Silvercash has no problem with links to our hosted galleries from a thumb of our content, having a percentage of clicks redirected for tgp traffic trades.

Why would we???

If you have a question... E me..

bangwang @ silver.......

Richard
3688149

Bangwang,

Sounds good to me... I was pretty sure you were gonna say that thou.
I'll keep loading my traffic off in your face then

[Greenguy]

Originally posted by Bangwang
See you in Hollywood?

Yes, Jim & I will both be there

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by tgpguy
Jim,

You are absolutely right 100%..........but this thread has taken on a life of it's own. I think it departed from the original intent about reply number 3. If I was a sponsor offering content for surfers I would be highly pissed. Nasty Dollars has people on staff to ensure that their content is not "stolen" or used in any way not in accordance with their TOS. Skimming is not a good thing at all, as a matter of fact I dislike it immensly, but it serves it's purpose in that if you strike a balance your site can grow in size and get bookmarks. I think most will agree that this is simply a collision of two different "worlds" within the online adult community. And at the end of the day GG would be able to step into the TGP game and have a lot easier time at it than I would have stepping into the link list game, it is all about traffic and sellingn

Funny, last time I saw, Nastydollar's TGP's skimmed too

[KCat]

Wow! I love Torn & Kat, but this is nuts!

From a gallery submitter perspective:


There isn't a single no-skim thumb TGP that I submit to.

That means that 6 or 7 or 8 times out of 10, Kat's thumb would go to the gallery I submitted. The remainder would go to the TGP's trades. So...

If I built a gallery out of Kat's free content & submitted to my list, would:

I have my affiliate account deleted?

My partner accounts be getting C&Ds?

[Useless]

On a more positive note - look at all of the brand spanking new board members this thread dragged in.

[Stouch]

Originally posted by KCat
Wow! I love Torn & Kat, but this is nuts!

From a gallery submitter perspective:


There isn't a single no-skim thumb TGP that I submit to.

That means that 6 or 7 or 8 times out of 10, Kat's thumb would go to the gallery I submitted. The remainder would go to the TGP's trades. So...

If I built a gallery out of Kat's free content & submitted to my list, would:

I have my affiliate account deleted?

My partner accounts be getting C&Ds?

Thats what I wanted to know...

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by KCat
Wow! I love Torn & Kat, but this is nuts!

From a gallery submitter perspective:


There isn't a single no-skim thumb TGP that I submit to.

That means that 6 or 7 or 8 times out of 10, Kat's thumb would go to the gallery I submitted. The remainder would go to the TGP's trades. So...

If I built a gallery out of Kat's free content & submitted to my list, would:

I have my affiliate account deleted?

My partner accounts be getting C&Ds?

Dealing with the volume of this kind of stuff that I do, I would just say "screw it" to any sponsor that might give me trouble.. My partner accounts are valuable to me, and having one program going around causing unneccessary bullshit with the tgp owners that I've built a relationship with over a long period of time would be... Absolutely infuriating. No way in hell would I promote a sponsor like that.. I can understand protecting your content and wanting to make the most out of each hit, but tgp traffic can be valuable (I should know), and for them to try to dictate what the tgp owners can do, directly or indirectly, is absolutely ridiculous.

[justmyopinion]

Everybody who is running an affiliate program (including Torn) should listen to the advice Jim gave by telling what he would have done in a similar situation:

Originally posted by Jim

I would have written to the advertiser and asked him to stop. I would not have gotten any host involved until I was sure that didn't work. And I would not have terminated the advertiser's account. But, that's just me. I also believe that if you are going to "give away" content and you have rules about using it, you should make sure they are posted clearly.

Listening to Jim's advice will save affiliate programs and affiliates from a lot of unnecessary drama.

[justmyopinion]

Torn,

You have made many mistakes each of which will probably cost you affiliates:

1.
You sent a C&D to your affiliate's host without giving your affiliate time to respond to your complaint.

2.a
You ran to a board to complain about an affiliate without giving your affiliate time to respond to your complaint.
2.b.
You posted your affiliate's whois info and domains on a board called possible cheaters and implied that he is a cheater whose account you already terminated and telling that you wrote a C&D to him and to his host.
Again without giving your affiliate time to respond to your complaint.

3.
You posted your affiliate's private email address and home address on a board.
(this isn't much of a tragedy in this case since Kloot had his home address listed in his domains whois info but about 50% of webmasters don't have their home address in their whois information - including Torn aka PO Box 8xxx - and I think Torn wouldn't be happy if I started posting his home address on message boards.)

4.You were insulting and abusive towards your affiliate by calling him "little piss ant".


These 4 acts by you made sure that I will NEVER touch your program.
I suspect that many other affiliates don't want to see this kind of behaviour from affiliate programs.

Tips for affiliate programs:
Do NOT use boards as the first stop for solving problems (this applies also to affiliates).
Respect your affiliates privacy.(this applies also to affiliates).
Act respectfully towards your affiliates and other people (this applies also to affiliates).
Do NOT make rash decisions in the heat of the moment (this applies also to affiliates).


You will be forever infamous as the clueless program owner who didn't get skimming and tgps but to me you will be just another example of a person who runs to the boards, makes rash decisions, doesn't care about their affiliate's privacy and acts abusively.

Good luck with the path you have chosen.


-justmyopinion

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by justmyopinion
Torn,

You have made many mistakes each of which will probably cost you affiliates:

1.
You sent a C&D to your affiliate's host without giving your affiliate time to respond to your complaint.

2.a
You ran to a board to complain about an affiliate without giving your affiliate time to respond to your complaint.
2.b.
You posted your affiliate's whois info and domains on a board called possible cheaters and implied that he is a cheater whose account you already terminated and telling that you wrote a C&D to him and to his host.
Again without giving your affiliate time to respond to your complaint.

3.
You posted your affiliate's private email address and home address on a board.
(this isn't much of a tragedy in this case since Kloot had his home address listed in his domains whois info but about 50% of webmasters don't have their home address in their whois information - including Torn aka PO Box 8xxx - and I think Torn wouldn't be happy if I started posting his home address on message boards.)

4.You were insulting and abusive towards your affiliate by calling him "little piss ant".


These 4 acts by you made sure that I will NEVER touch your program.
I suspect that many other affiliates don't want to see this kind of behaviour from affiliate programs.

Tips for affiliate programs:
Do NOT use boards as the first stop for solving problems (this applies also to affiliates).
Respect your affiliates privacy.(this applies also to affiliates).
Act respectfully towards your affiliates and other people (this applies also to affiliates).
Do NOT make rash decisions in the heat of the moment (this applies also to affiliates).


You will be forever infamous as the clueless program owner who didn't get skimming and tgps but to me you will be just another example of a person who runs to the boards, makes rash decisions, doesn't care about their affiliate's privacy and acts abusively.

Good luck with the path you have chosen.


-justmyopinion

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Bill]

Leaving aside the question of the skim, which I never found very interesting personally...

Everybody thinks it's just peachy that this kloot character was autodownloading something that set off virus warnings, then?

All of Kloots trades think it's just fine that Kloots thumbtgp was apparently downloading some kind of exploit?

I know, I know, the only proof that's left is Torn's claim, but is it your position that Kloot was innocent of any wrongdoing?

Who's trading with Kloot? What was the url of this innocent thumbtgp?

[crockett]

Originally posted by Bill
Leaving aside the question of the skim, which I never found very interesting personally...

Everybody thinks it's just peachy that this kloot character was autodownloading something that set off virus warnings, then?

All of Kloots trades think it's just fine that Kloots thumbtgp was apparently downloading some kind of exploit?

I know, I know, the only proof that's left is Torn's claim, but is it your position that Kloot was innocent of any wrongdoing?

Who's trading with Kloot? What was the url of this innocent thumbtgp?

It seems you didn't read the whole topic.. the exploit was coming from the free host not koot.. but he did have the pop up which is not a big deal IMO. I don't know if you ever used porngraph counter but they did the same thing and started auto installing toolbars via their counter and killed a great service.

[Bill]

I read the whole post. So you're telling me that Kloot never once visited his own site and noticed that his oh-so-mysterious freehost was downloading exploits on him?

Or maybe the "freehost" started it just minutes before Torn checked the link?

Blaming it on the freehost is the oldest fucking trick in the book.

I know all about porngraph. So, are you claiming he still had a porngragh counter on there and that was the source of the exploit? (I know you're not, you are using it as an example. And anybody who was dumb enough to still have a pg counter downloading toolbars off his siite months after it was discovered and discussed on every fucking board in existence deserves no sympathy.)

Who was the freehost owner? Let's ask him about his exploit autodownloading freehost. What's the evidence that the malware was from the freehost?

Who are Kloots trades? Is it any surprise none of them have spoken up?

[tgpguy]

Originally posted by LadyMischief
Funny, last time I saw, Nastydollar's TGP's skimmed too

I bet they do, I am talking about "really" stealing the content and not just "skimming"