Katrina aftermath - what the fuck???

[Bill]

I found a first person report that seems to confirm firing on helicopters. It's pretty critical of the police and the authorities, but it's an interesting read.

I have yet to find what I'm looking for, which is actual police reports, with evidence, of arrests made, or police shootings leading to known fatalities, or pictures of bulletholes in helicopters or police station walls.

This is where it's reprinted:

http://www.alternet.org/story/25220/

Some relevant clips:

"I know everyone has heard about people firing on helicopters. I'm certainly not saying it is right, but after being there, I understand. For five days, helicopters are flying overhead, but none of them are dropping water or food down for anyone. They fly by using load speakers saying that anyone found looting or stealing will be arrested, and those are the helicopters that are followed by gunshots, from what I see.

The only government group anyone has seen are the police with sawed-off shotguns threatening to arrest everyone who is walking around on the streets.

Everyone is fearful for his future, and fear leads people to do amazing, extraordinary things. It's a state of war. People don't even know who they're fighting, but they know they're at war. Twice, I bike away at full speed from people that come at me. Before I leave the city, my cash, backpack loaded with food and change of clothes and my camera are stolen. The final time, two people robbed me of my water. They didn't even ask for cash or my watch, just my water. It is desperation, and the last thing I could ever feel is anger."

"...They warn me about what neighborhoods to avoid, and that above everything else, it was critical to stay away from the police. They'll force you to leave by putting you on a bus destined for who knows where, and if you resist, they'll arrest you. It's the first time I sense that the police and government are seen as enemies by Katrina survivors. At first, I simply consider that shortsighted, but over the next two days, I start to understand why they think that way."

"The city is not at all empty as the news says it is. I find hundreds if not thousands of people in all the different neighborhoods, and they have no intention of leaving. First and foremost, they have nowhere to go. Many people don't want to leave. They don't trust they'll ever be let back in, and they certainly aren't going to allow their homes to be pillaged by people crafty enough not to get kicked out. Finally, they just don't believe the argument that the city will be unsafe and infested with disease.

They're armed and angry. They have already survived five straight days of no food and no water, and they don't believe those who haven't gotten them food or water are going to find a place for them to live."

[Erick G]

CNN likes to show dead bodies alot.

[Cleo]

The forcing people out of their homes I just don't understand.

I've been through hurricanes and remember well when Andrew destroyed Homestead Florida.

Last thing you want to do is leave your home. You want to protect what you have, take care of your animals, and try to start putting your life back together. Plus most of us don't have anyplace else to go.

These people's homes look dry and fine to live in yet they are forcing them out to go where?

This whole thing just makes no sense.

[Kinky]

Originally Posted by Bill

I have yet to find what I'm looking for, which is actual police reports, with evidence, of arrests made, or police shootings leading to known fatalities, or pictures of bulletholes in helicopters or police station walls.

I saw the NO deputy police chief in a live press conference stating that 2 people were killed by police and 4 others wounded

Police killed two people Sunday on the Danziger Bridge over the Industrial Canal, he said.

The incident began when a rescue worker heard gunshots and called police. When the responding unit saw six people on the bridge with guns, they called in a task force unit, which confronted the group, according to Riley.

"The subjects fired on the task force, which returned fire," he said, killing two on the scene and wounding two others. The other two fled and the task force pursued, wounding one and capturing the other.

All three of the wounded were hospitalized, Riley said.

HERE IS AN ARTICLE WITH THE FULL STORY

[Erick G]

Cleo they probably want to bulldoze the whole city. I wouldnt want to leave myself.
It makes no sense. I donated to the pet rescue fund.

[Bill]

Yes, Kinky, that story is one of the few which appear to be confirmable, and I mentioned it in an earlier post in this thread.

But, it's not a _confirmed_ story. It's not a confirmed fatality. A confirmed fatality would include the names of the dead and wounded, where they were from, and ideally what weapons they were using and where the weapons came from.

If other looters are being shot, the police presumably have to bring the bodies back to some central spot for identification and storage. Leaving shot dead bodies around the city, and not reporting the killings, would be very strange.

If "gangs of armed men" are being arrested, they have to be being kept somewhere. If a cop has been shot, surely that has to have been entered into some official log somewhere.

If this is happening, sooner or later hard lists of names, places, dates will be released. Pictures of dead men. Pictures of bullet holes.

[CaptainJSparrow]

Folks, we've seen police on local TV try to get people to leave and they won't. Haven't seen (on the local news) the police forcibly evacuate anyone.

Bill, I'm not sure that I believe that article that you posted. Nothing against you, but I think the author is lying.

Also, I know for a fact that the National Guard is down there. That article says "The only government group anyone has seen are the police with sawed-off shotguns threatening to arrest everyone who is walking around on the streets." This is just not true.

My friend that is down there called last night and said that the locals are throwing rocks and bottles of urine at them as they just walk by. His thought is that these people are the scum of the earth and most of his comrades in the military wish that they'd be allowed to open up on these lowlifes and put'em out of everybody's misery.

He also says that they've seen reports on CNN and the folks down there think those reports are mostly bullshit. This is straight from my buddy in the Guard unit in New Orleans.

Incidentally, I may talk with him tomorrow at some point. If anyone has any relevant questions, I'd be glad to ask him and post it here.

[Bill]

Jeff, I'm pretty sure that article was written about a visit he made last weekend, so it's not current. He repeatedly mentions "5 days" since the hurricane, 5 days of no food no water.

It's been 12 days now I think.

I haven't been able to find first person reports more recent that describe the things I'm looking for.

One gets the impression things are much calmer now, but I can't tell if they truly are, or if this is just a media illusion.

That many people are still there, many more than thought, including many, many apparently very "straight" people, seems to be true, based on reports from the majot media tonight.

I feel bad for Baton Rouge. I hope that there will be long term benefits from this disaster for your city.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by CaptainJSparrow

My friend that is down there called last night and said that the locals are throwing rocks and bottles of urine at them as they just walk by. His thought is that these people are the scum of the earth and most of his comrades in the military wish that they'd be allowed to open up on these lowlifes and put'em out of everybody's misery.

An American soldier on an American street itching to pull the trigger on an American "lowlife" flinging a bottle of urine.

There is something archetypal about that.

An icon of possible futures.

[CaptainJSparrow]

You know, these brave folks that are throwing urine at our soldiers...kinda reminds me of a kid hiding behind his mother's skirt as he sticks his tongue out at another kid.

Problem is, all of the authorities have alot to do down in New Orleans, and these people are hindering the progress.

They were told to get out. They were told that they would not be given any more food and water if they stayed. They were given a means to get out. If they choose to stay then let'em stay.

In a more perfect world, the authorities should totally ignore them and get to the business of making those areas inhabitable again. The authorities should only interact with them when they try to cause harm to others, hinder the progress of rebuilding, and when they are stealing things other than food and water.

[Chop Smith]

When watching sensationalize TV, I find a bag of Zapp's and a bottle of Abita helps. Drink enough Abita and you can see whatever you want.

Captain, these brave folks that are throwing urine are the locals that the Creoles call Americans?

[CaptainJSparrow]

Chop Smith,

Yep, they're Americans and Louisianians...they just don't represent the best of us. Matter of fact, they're more like the worst of us.

[dareutwo]

Ok, got an email from my father this morning.
He is on his way down from Southern MN later today.
He is a retired EMT (ambulance personel)
Not sure how the hell they found him being retired, and he doesn't know when he'll be back. (3 week minumum) There is actually a whole plane of EMT's, Doctors, Nurses etc from the Rochester area (Mayo Clinic) on the way.
I told him to do whatever he could, but that he's about a week late.
He agreed, and said just "Take care of the cabin".
Though he did say that disease control was a top issue in their mission training.
I'll keep you updated if and/or when he can email out.

[sbm4latinaz]

Originally Posted by th3g4me

They are all red states down there... You think Bush would have really wanted to take care of them in something like this. This will be bad for the republican party...

I don’t understand why the people are shooting at the choppers that come in to supply them, take them out, and try to repair the levees. Just because they stole them selves some new guns doesn’t mean they have to use them.

Well if I'm on my roof and see the same chopper past by me 10 times trying to fix a damb , I'd shoot at him too.
PEOPLE BEFORE PROPERTY GUYS!!!!!!
Ok I'm calm now .

[CaptainJSparrow]

A friend sent these to me as a joke...thought I'd share'em with ya'll.



Things I have learned from watching the news on TV during the last eight days:

The hurricane only hit black family's property.

New Orleans was devastated and no other city was affected by the hurricane.

Mississippi is reported to have a tree blown down.

New Orleans has no white people.

The hurricane blew a limb off a tree in the yard of an Alabama resident.

When you are hungry after a hurricane, steal a big screen TV.

The hurricane did 23 billion dollars in improvements to New Orleans:
now the city is welfare, looters, and gang free... and they are in your city.

White folks don't make good news stories.

Don't give thanks to the thousands that came to help rescue you, instead bitch because the government hasn't given you a debit card yet.

Only black family members got separated in the hurricane rescue efforts.

Ignore warnings to evacuate and the white folks will come get you and give you money for being stupid