Need help /raided and computers seized

[Linkster]

Ummm furrygirl - I dont think Alex meant anything like what you interpreted it as First off I dont believe he even owns a tgp - and yes he does shoot content - and as far as the "scene" and involvement with some of the most far away from center stuff - Ive always known him to be extremely accepting and never prejudging whatsoever. I guess maybe I just read his posts in a different light than you did as I believe he was just responding to the small amount of facts that were actually put out here.

Im pretty sure that Ive been around the BDSM scene and involved in everything from munches to local area clubs - to the largest play clubs and private gatherings for probably about 20 or 30 years longer than anyone that posts on this board. I can also tell you that even within that framework there are always going to be a few that decide to go a little beyond what even the "scene" community would normally involve themselves in (furrygirl - not pointed at you as I see what you do as perfectly within standard realms and not "out there" at all)
I also think that there are some political forces that arent being discussed here that are at play - the only reason I bring that up is that a member of a top national anti-obscenity group happens to be located very near where this "event" occured that was originally posted - and the day it happened was also the day that their head player was testifying in congress about their anti-porn efforts

To summarize - furrygirl - I dont think that you would have the same feelings/thoughts about Alex if you ever sat down and talked to him one-on-one - doing this on a board is tough as its hard to get the "jist" across properly I really dont think that he was "looking down his nose at anything"

[GonZo]

Originally Posted by furrygirl

Oh please, Alex, as though I need some TGP owner trying to tell me about RISK.

What on earth do you know about RISK?

A TGP owner is perhaps the most removed element in the entire adult industry and has nearly no vested interest in industry issues. Half the sites online could have their owners sent to prison for transmitting images to conservative areas where sodomy is illegal, and you'd just switch sponsor programs. You just link to things, you have no actual investment in any part of the process of creating porn. You're not a model, who could be stalked or killed by a crazy fan; you're not a photographer, who could be attacked by a jealous boyfriend or have the cops come over and inspect his home because someone told someone that he also has children, even though they've never been exposed to anything adult; you're not a site owner, you don't have to worry about being prosecuted for the content you feature or worry about charge backs and script kiddies fucking with your site.

Until you have even the tiniest grasp of what it means to take *risks* as a part of the adult industry, please, stick to the things you do know something about.

As a model and performer, photographer, webmaster, business-owner, and adult novelty retailer, MY LIFE IS RISK. I live with that every single day, and I am fully aware of the implications of everything I do. I have devoted more than three years of my life to making porn that is often "risky".

Where do you get that I send people watersports tapes in the mail? I have pee videos and pictures on my site, and offered one to Emmanuelle. It's not some secret dirty thing, but thanks for expressing enough interest in me to read all of my posts and thoroughly inspect my free tour.

And yes, I can buy or rent piss videos here in Seattle, we are a city of perverts and queers. We even have an amateur porn film festival and a ton of adult-oriented clubs and events.

As someone else brought up on this thread, perhaps even in response to you, you are in no place to bitch at anyone about things like location releases if you haven't seen documentation that all the porn on your TGP was shot in places where the property owner signed a contract to allow adult material to be shot there. You're grasping at straws, you might as well have found the photos in my members area where I'm standing in the middle of an empty road and accuse me of jaywalking.

No, but I'd like to change that. If I ever make a DVD for EroticRed.com, I'll be out there the next day talking to local stores to carry it and hope they'll join me in fighting bullshit.

I understand that people like you can't understand big complicated concepts like "ethics" and "sexual freedom", since those things don't have affiliate programs with $40 PPSs. But, to people like me who do care about things other than money, sexual freedoms and ethics are incredibly important, perhaps *the most* important thing. I will continue fighting anti-menstruation hysteria, despite the fact that I know better than you do that I could well go to prison for it. And you know what? Fighting sexism and promoting health sexuality is *that* important to me. Finding a wonderful controversial way to stir debate between indie pornographers and "regular" women about our bodies and our sexuality is *that* important to me. Making porn that doesn't deny actual female experiences is *that* important to me.

But go on, keep believing that "legitimate" porn is where girls are throat-fucked until the vomit and cry, and menstruating pussy on a nude model is an abomination. I don't expect you to change your point of view.

I can't remember who said it, but there's an old quote about how attitudes never actually change about anything, and that the only way we progress as a society is as the old guard dies out. Well, say hello to little Furry Girl, the next generation of smut-peddlers, catering to the next generation of smut customers.

Which just proved my original point even more: people in your removed-from-everything situation care fuck-all about the other people in the industry or about general sexual freedoms or first amendment issues, you're simply looking out for yourself. Well, I actually take pride in my work and believe in what I'm doing on a higher level than making money, I'm not just linking to people who are taking all the risks for me.

You're like a chubby kid saying that you're thrilled that a fatter kid has moved to your school this year, so people will pick on him instead- hell, even you can pick on him, too! Some day, some of you might realize the truth in the old adage of



When you get your way, and all the big bad evil people like myself are in prison, who's head do you think will be next on the block?

Damn Alex... I think she just paddled your ass! Can I get pics in Vegas? But I aint paying $300!!!

[GonZo]

Originally Posted by Linkster

Ummm furrygirl - I dont think Alex meant anything like what you interpreted it as First off I dont believe he even owns a tgp - and yes he does shoot content - and as far as the "scene" and involvement with some of the most far away from center stuff - Ive always known him to be extremely accepting and never prejudging whatsoever. I guess maybe I just read his posts in a different light than you did as I believe he was just responding to the small amount of facts that were actually put out here.

Im pretty sure that Ive been around the BDSM scene and involved in everything from munches to local area clubs - to the largest play clubs and private gatherings for probably about 20 or 30 years longer than anyone that posts on this board. I can also tell you that even within that framework there are always going to be a few that decide to go a little beyond what even the "scene" community would normally involve themselves in (furrygirl - not pointed at you as I see what you do as perfectly within standard realms and not "out there" at all)
I also think that there are some political forces that arent being discussed here that are at play - the only reason I bring that up is that a member of a top national anti-obscenity group happens to be located very near where this "event" occured that was originally posted - and the day it happened was also the day that their head player was testifying in congress about their anti-porn efforts

To summarize - furrygirl - I dont think that you would have the same feelings/thoughts about Alex if you ever sat down and talked to him one-on-one - doing this on a board is tough as its hard to get the "jist" across properly I really dont think that he was "looking down his nose at anything"

Damn it Linkster... your fucking up my photo shoot for Vegas!

[Linkster]

Gonzo - just wear that pink fur coat and those pretty underwear and Im sure we can set up something - we should be able to get a good photoshoot on that - hmm I wonder if that last set is still around

[domweb]

What furrygirl said.

Whoah. Most righteous.

Pissed off women don't normally do anything for me...but damn if I don't have a hard on.

[RawAlex]

Furrygirl, let me say this, and say it real clearly: If you haven't got a clue, don't get started. Your assumptions and presumptions about me start out wrong, get much more wrong, and pretty much end up in the toilet before you are over and done with.

Assuming I am a "tgp owner" starts you way off in the wrong end of town, and you never came back. That you totally, utterly, and without a doubt missed the entire point of my post just makes your angry, flailing post that much more humorous. It would be a great post if your "facts" were true, but, hey, why let mere facts get in the way of a good rant, right?

The questions come down to this: Legal or not legal. Obscene or not obscene. Documented or not documents. Acceptable to community standards or not.

webwoman is working in a business that is honestly "at the edge" of what is acceptable in most communities. Moreover, doing that work in a house that is half in a residential neighborhood ain't exactly great, and changing (but calling it a donation) for the services is a fair risk. Effectively, depending on how the local and state officials feel, it might be considered sexual in nature, and all that it implies.

As for your stuff, you are totally free to do whatever it is that turns you on - provided you don't blow past community standards. My suggestion to you is that perhaps in seattle your pee stuff goes over well. You are in a solidly liberal state with few republicans in places of power. Take your stuff down the road to Salt Lake City or somewhere of that nature, and you would fly past community standards with the urination, and we won't even discuss the menstruation stuff. Would you do scat as well? It is, after, all, just another bodily fluid. Perhaps vomitus, or ear wax, or toejam? Really, where is the line?

"menstruating pussy on a nude model is an abomination" - no, it is totally natural, and about as sexual to most people as taking a poop or getting their stomach pumped. It is navel gazing self glorification at it's finest. Again, totally natural, just like taking a shit, but no more interesting to me, and no more likely to pass the good old community standards test.

Because you are "out on the edge", if your local government officials decide to get ugly with you, they can go all the way down to siting you for not having permits for outdoor shoots and such (I had a friend receive such a citiation, when filming a student film, and I had to explain for quite a while to the police when filming a short movie on Ste Helene's Island here in Montreal). It isn't a laughing matter, but your reply shows that you don't understand or truly appreciate what the repercussions of your actions can be.

Oh yeah, no I don't think throat fucking a girl until she is sick is any more sexy than watching you take a leak. Neither one of them would put my Levis in peril.

Your assumption that I don't understand the risks involved in shooting, producing, and selling porn is again, based on a lack of knowledge about me. I don't put the stuff out there and toot my horn, I don't build sites for it, and I don't get involved. As a matter of fact, due to changes in your government's customs laws, I have had to stop all video production / editing for US clients, as they require when I return tapes or DVDs to the client to declare that the material is not obscene. As there is no standard for obscenity, I cannot take that risk. I don't want to spend 20 years in a federal butt slamming prison because the customs office that reviewed my stuff was in SLC or some other massively conservative part of the US.

"When you get your way, and all the big bad evil people like myself are in prison, who's head do you think will be next on the block?"

Do you think I want you to go to prison? Do you think I want the DoJ all over the case? Do you think I enjoy when someone gets raided, busted, or hassled? Not in the slightest. However, just like someone driving 100MPH through a school zone, you need to take some responsiblity for your own actions. Don't blame society for putting up the speed limit signs, but think for a minute why they are there. If we were all pretty much keeping up with traffic and being reasonable, it would be VERY, VERY hard for the DoJ and the Bush whitehouse to have their way with us. Instead, we produce extreme sites, we spam, we lure kids to sites with type domains from Disney, we isntall toolbars, send viruses, mousetrap people with consoles and generally abuse and annoy people, especially those who didn't want porn to start with. When they get angry about whatever, they go and look for people EXACTLY like you, or Max Hardcore, or other extreme cases, and parade you in front of the public as "those dirty pornographers". They won't show your nice kissy face pictures, but they sure will make sure to spread your pictures of you peeing and pulling out a used tampon to every media outlet that will listen. They will put them out there in conservative think tanks, action groups, and they will use them in court... and (MOST IMPORTANT PART) the rest of us will get fucked over because a few people couldn't be reasonable.

Janet Jackson by herself caused the biggest attack on broadcast media in the last 10 years by popping her boob out on TV. The backlash is still ongoing, with networks now self censoring and running 10 second tape delays and all sorts of stuff. Without Janet, the rest of the stuff would have been tolerated. With Janet, a single bad word slipped out of an athlete's mouth during an interview is enough send network executives into a panic.

What you do is up to you. Just don't be surprised when you get pulled over and they don't just give you a ticket.

Alex

[Tommy]

yeah how can you say that Alex is just a tgp owner removed from the adult industry

I think he is one of the most talented webmasters around
he shoots content
edits videos
builds sites (i know cause I link them)
is great at SEO stuff
and runs a tgp

I beleive he even has a degree in video editing

AND he is a honest and hard working webmaster which is something we are very short on in this industry


I think your facts are dead wrong and your a little out of line

but then again what would I know or what right do I have to say anything
I am just a tgp owner

[RawAlex]

Damn tommy, I'm going to hire you to write my press releases...

Alex

[webwoman]

I think the small town realized that they gave me a permit to have a business that they did not understand. When they discovered the extent of my business they knew that they could not allow it to continue. The Problem is when they came in expecting to find me in a sex act or without a permit or running an illegal website or not zoned correctly it was their documents that proved my innocents.
When they saw all my stuff they had to take it. What else could they do leave it here?
My lawyer does not think it’s a big deal. I want my stuff back because a lot of it had nothing to do with my business or lifestyle. So to conclude 2257 and all the above will be questioned. Not obscenity he said there has not been a case in CT for over 20 years.
I’m just not that hardcore. I also learned that they do have big cases going on that they want to make stick but not in ct. he did not say who but said they were very important because they are fighting it. Maybe a nuisance but that’s it

[RawAlex]

webwoman, sounds like you are getting good legal advice. I just hope that everything turns out well. I would caution you, however, that if your business permit application didn't mention the adult nature of your business, they might come back and bite yu in the ass. The Enfield zoning and planning committee seems to meet often (every 2 weeks or so, from what I gather), and I wouldn't be surprised if they don't have a church / school / daycare / playground distance to adult business rule on the books, many communities have such a zoning restriction.

Sounds like everything is turning out okay, get your stuff back and shuffle down the highway to somewhere that is more understanding of your lifestyle.

Alex

[webwoman]

Alex you are correct its 1,500 hunderd feet ..It does say adult website, adult content
and studio so i think they just want me to move on.
you do give good advise when read in proper context.
Thanks webwoman

[docholly]

WOW! Internext is really going to be quite interesting this year.

[emmanuelle]

I think that ultimately it comes down to risk vs reward. Risk is something that we encounter every day, but individual tolerance for risk varies. I think it's clear that Alex has a very low tolerance for risk, which is what works for him. FG on the other hand does not focus on the potential negative consequences, preferring to focus on the anticipation of positive consequences.

We're each entitled to make those decisions for ourselves, neither is right or wrong.

[Useless]

Webwoman - I want you to know, no matter how harsh we sometimes seem, we all really want you to come out on top of this. None of us would wish that type of embarrassment and legal scare on another from our community.

And our in-fighting may seem a little crazy, but this is how we educate each other - through vigorous debate. As bad as any raid or legal action is for this community, it's good that we can walk away with a lesson learned, hopefully unscathed.

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by emmanuelle

I think that ultimately it comes down to risk vs reward. Risk is something that we encounter every day, but individual tolerance for risk varies. I think it's clear that Alex has a very low tolerance for risk, which is what works for him. FG on the other hand does not focus on the potential negative consequences, preferring to focus on the anticipation of positive consequences.

We're each entitled to make those decisions for ourselves, neither is right or wrong.

Having worked for someone (in a non-related business) that got shafted by local government, I know how they work. They want to get rid of you, so they stop you for something simple (burned out taillight on your car) and they use that as an excuse to start a little witch hunt.

Most people are unaware or fail to understand the concept of "piling it on". Many laws are written in such a way that if you do 1 thing wrong, they can put about 50 -100 charges on you. My example with FG was the simple outdoor photoshoot. That would be enough to merit a warrent to check all of her content, and in that review, they could possibly find other things that didn't like. What starts with a simple "commercial movie production without a location permit" can end up being so much more. Giving (especially) local officials a small way in the door can lead to insane amounts of trouble. There is always something else that can be found.

webwoman: The best thing anyone can do here is learn from your experience. It seems like something very small (which most people would ignore) starts a chain of events that leads you to likely have to move your business and yourself. I have a feeling that the big building kitty corner to you is a church. Most people don't even consider the zoning aspects of their business. Good luck and let us know the end results.

Alex

[webwoman]

on my way out the door to the lawyer now...will keep you posted.

[weirdharold]

We sincerly would like to be kept posted....

By the way, this thread has left me fairly impressed with those who have taken part... We haven't all agreed on this subject, but it was mostly discussed in a rational manner without anyone getting way out of bounds..... and UW I thinki your comment on the educational value of such discussions are right on the mark. I think I will have to spend more time wandering through the threads here.

[RawAlex]

Harold, there is a large mix of people here with different experiences and backgrounds. Literally nuclear engineers to garbage men, and everything in between. The variety and breadth of the experiences really do bring some amazing things to light in these discussions.

It is also good that there are many people here who have been in the business for a very long time. Jim has been in this business since, well, before there was a business. You can't buy experience

I look forward to seeing how this one turns out.

Alex

[furrygirl]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Furrygirl, let me say this, and say it real clearly: If you haven't got a clue, don't get started. Your assumptions and presumptions about me start out wrong, get much more wrong, and pretty much end up in the toilet before you are over and done with.

You ripped Webwoman a new asshole based on your own assumptions about her situation from what info she posted here, but then you get your panties in a twist when I make a post based on what I know of you from info on this board. What's the difference? You are not someone who I have ever interacted with in any way in my adult career thus far, and I'd never heard of "RawAlex" before I came here. Maybe you're some superstar to your friends who know you well, but as far as anyone can tell from this forum, you run a TGP.

Originally Posted by RawAlex

The questions come down to this: Legal or not legal. Obscene or not obscene. Documented or not documents. Acceptable to community standards or not.

My menstruation porn is legal and fully documented, as is the rest of what I produce and buy. The second two are extremely arbitrary standards which vary from town to town, which are standards that *any* porn could be shot down under, so they are a moot point.

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Would you do scat as well? It is, after, all, just another bodily fluid. Perhaps vomitus, or ear wax, or toejam? Really, where is the line?

You've missed my point on the matter entirely, but then again, most mass-market pornographers who can't think outside the box do, too.

The point of having a menstruation site is not to try and compete with the trend of making something as shocking and crazy and irresponsible and sketchy as possible while still being just this side of legal, it's to focus on menstruation itself as a natural healthy part of adult female sexuality. Your examples of stomach-pumping, toe infections, and vomit as a part of healthy adult sexuality do nothing more than show how little you know about women or respect us.

And anyway, vomit has already been "normalized" in the biz to the extent that for ever "period" photo I've seen, I've seen 20 photos of a girl being throat-fucked until she vomits.

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Because you are "out on the edge", if your local government officials decide to get ugly with you, they can go all the way down to siting you for not having permits for outdoor shoots and such (I had a friend receive such a citiation, when filming a student film, and I had to explain for quite a while to the police when filming a short movie on Ste Helene's Island here in Montreal).

Oh, anecdotal evidence from another country that has nothing to do with porn, that's a great argument.

Give me some solid facts from the US as to how often the government pursues adult sites for whether or not they had shooting permits for their locations, or quit harping on it.

Originally Posted by RawAlex

However, just like someone driving 100MPH through a school zone, you need to take some responsiblity for your own actions. Don't blame society for putting up the speed limit signs, but think for a minute why they are there.

Thinking for a minute about why the stop sign in on Menstrual Avenue is actually exactly what I'm trying to get people to do.

And quit with the dad-talk of telling me that I need to be responsible for my own actions, you being condescending doesn't change the fact that I am one of the most responsible ethics-driven adult webmasters you will ever meet, and who is willing to fight for everyone's right for freedom of sexual expression, even if it means I would go to prison for it.

Originally Posted by RawAlex

... and (MOST IMPORTANT PART) the rest of us will get fucked over because a few people couldn't be reasonable.

Oh please, if it weren't for people like me, sticking their necks out, the adult industry would have been driven underground decades/centuries ago and you would have never had the chance to start your own adult projects. I make porn with consenting adults over the age of 18 which displays non-violent, happy, healthy, body-positive sexuality featuring wonderful models who are proud to be making porn with me and expressing themselves in a friendly environment.

If you want to pick on anyone, pick on sites that cater to pedophiles or tacitly encourage rape. You know, the sites made by the big sponsors.

[SirMoby]

Any body have any popcorn?

[RawAlex]

I had a whole big post typed up, and I deleted it.

I have nothing to prove here.

Furrygirl, honestly, you don't have a clue. You don't get it. Not even in the slightest. You don't see the line between sexual and non-sexual. You don't seem to understand that most people are comfortable with their sexuality, but they still close the door when they go to the bathroom. Only a very small number of people want to see what happens behind that door, and I doubt it is for purely sexual reasons. As mentioned in another thread here, more than likely coming from mommy complexes, or other non-sexual issues. Much in the same way that Rape has little to do with sex (it is an act of domination and / or rage), people into scat or menstruation aren't involved in it for any sort of sexual thrill.

Your own words: "It's not real honest female sexuality they're after, it's these little things that are removed from it, which are held up *as* female sexuality. Many of the period guys are sweethearts and subbies, but a number of them are vicious misogynists who actually truly *hate* women for say, not sharing their used pads with them, or popping their fetish bubble and saying that most chicks don't get sopping wet walking down the "feminine needs" section in the grocery store."

Do you really think there is much difference between these people who have a warped view of bodily functions and people who commit rape? In all cases, they would appear to have certain disfunction when it comes to male-female relationships.

Alex

[Chop Smith]

Someone needs to borrow a whip from webwoman and take a kid out behind the wood shed and wear her ass out.

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by SirMoby

Any body have any popcorn?

There may be some, but the "flavored toppings" aren't exactly what you are expecting.

Alex

[Tommy]

Originally Posted by furrygirl

but then you get your panties in a twist when I make a post based on what I know of you from info on this board.

I bet if those panties had blood on them that would be different situation

[webwoman]

Updates on what’s going on .The first amendment attorney met with my bankruptcy attorney today to find out what happens in a situation where the courts already approved my business.
This is how it began prior to the raid.

I was in the mist of doing a bankruptcy and was told that I had to make xxx amount of money to qualify for a chapter 13.
I had an interest in doing a membership site as well as selling custom made furniture and videos.
I have always been a Dominant female but was not completely convinced that I would be able to earn enough money before they foreclosed on my home.
They gave me a month to come up with a plan that would prove that I could make enough money to pay back my debt
This allowed me enough time to gather all the paper work that was needed to run my business.
It took months to get it approved. I had to show a month to month history of everything I did to earn money. When my income got to a level that matched the amount needed to make my plan payments they entered my business into the books as an adult base business for website, video, content and a custom furniture store. The two rooms I ran my business out of became a studio where we shoot our content and did videos for the site.
They approved it. And each month watched it grow.

Here is what is taking place now
Together the two attorneys are taking my case to court to fight the reason why they came in and seized all of my stuff.
He said that because it was documented in the courts as an adult based business and I made all my plan payments from my income from it. .
The stuff they took was listed on the court papers from the bankruptcy case so it was business property.
He is going to claim that my livelihood was taken away after my business was already approved on record.
The raid puts us in default and now we are unable to make our payments.
They will have to dismiss the bankruptcy and wipe the debt clean.
If they don’t let me run my business so I can pay for it.
My bankruptcy lawyer busted his ass getting it approved and he won’t let it go.
The first amendment attorney thinks our rights have been violated so he wants to fight it
So I think it’s a good thing …it may help others in ct in the end.
Friday I go to a strategy meeting to see how we begin this fight .It should be interesting
Anyway he wants me to keep the site up so I will for now.
Still thinks the town doesn’t want me here and that’s what it about. But I will do what I have to to continue ..and make sure this time no mistakes are made.