Need help /raided and computers seized

[weirdharold]

Originally Posted by DJilla

The official position is:

Porn is ART and EXPRESSION!
There will be no concessions.
There will be no negotiated agreements.
There will be no taxes.
There will be no regulation.
There will be no quarter!
Period!

Well said, because if we give one hard won inch... they will take a mile!

[furrygirl]

Originally Posted by GonZo

1) An end to extreme hardcore content.

2) IV drug testing to discourage use of performers that are on IV drugs.

3) A 21-and-over age limit for performers that do hardcore.

4) Cutting ties with the escort business by not allowing escorts to perform in front of the camera.

5) Not using foreign talent unless they have legitimate papers to work in the US.

6) Working with the government to legislate a "porn tax" similar to alcohol and gambling taxes."

Self regulation is being discussed.

I'm all for industry-initiated self-regulation and discussion of ethics in the industry, but as Gonzo said, it's like herding cats. Whereas I'm ethically aghast at pedo-bait sites and violent degrading content, there as plenty of people ethically aghast at me for menstruating during a softcore stripping set.

3) As someone who got started at 18, I am always irked by these things. I understand where people whom I respect are coming from when they advocate over-21 policies, but I don't think that it would address either of the reasons I see for having such a rule. One, there is nothing that says a 21-year-old is more secure, mature, and better at making decisions about her life and her body than an 18-year-old. Even people in their 30s or 40s or 80s can later regret making porn and feel like they made a wrong decision or were lured into something evil with the promise of money. Two, if this is to combat pedo-bait sites like Little April, many sites/photogs/talent are trying to make performers/themselves look as much like a teenager as possible, and many sites will *always* push "she's so young" as a top selling point of their sites, whether the models are 18 or 21 or 35. I see no reason to deny legal consensual adult work to 18-year-olds.

(Personally, I have made a conscious point of never using the word "teen" or "young" to sell myself and my site, even though I have plenty of content shot when I was 18 and 19. I actually go out of my way to correct anyone who calls me a teen, and I *never* talk about "my first time" or any borderline illegal stories of underage sexual antics that are ubiquitous on adult sites. Seriously, what is with *that* being normalized?)

4) Can we just use the word prostitute and cut with the "escort" euphemisms? I don't look down at prostitutes in the least or think what they are doing is morally wrong, but I don't like beating around the bush. This would be the hardest thing in the world to try and set rules for and enforce. Aside from models who do a bit of extra work on the side, look at all the adult talent that does occasional brothel work as such-and-such-pornstar, are we going to then cut them off from the "legal" adult industry? Or is this only for prostitutes outside of legal brothels? Sticky, sticky.

5) Well, there goes iFriends and all the cam networks populated by eastern bloc ladies.

6) Feeding the hand that bites us... yeah, sign me up for that one.

Still, these are a great starting point for a kick-ass discussion, and something that would make a lively last-minute panel for Internext/AEE.

[furrygirl]

Originally Posted by DJilla

You should step aside a minute and realize that you are justifying yourself and not being objective. If you are going to be "out there" then be willing to take the hits from a majority of people who find your stuff disgusting and just don't care. Don't act like everyone else is crazy.

I'm absolutely not objective about the personal porn that I meake which features myself and my cunt. Spend 22 years being told that your body is shameful, disgusting, barf-worthy, dirty, stinky, too out-there, and obscene, and then try to give me a lesson on objectivity. Sorry, dude, but this is something you will just never understand.

[DJilla]

Originally Posted by furrygirl

Spend 22 years being told that your body is shameful, disgusting, barf-worthy, dirty, stinky, too out-there, and obscene, and then try to give me a lesson on objectivity. Sorry, dude, but this is something you will just never understand.

But just the opposite, I think I do understand, I understand that you are dealing with your own point of view and expression of it. I'm fully supportive of that and you. What I'm trying to point out is that you may be extremely wrapped up in ONLY your point of view and that you lose sight of the fact that there is probably a large body of people that find your position/expression extreme and therefore threatening, unpleasant, whatever. Because of this you're going to take some hits. The objective part I'm referring to comes from you knowing and accepting this and letting the hits roll off of you like a raincoat and not taking it so personally. Its not a cirticism of you as a person but of your art. This is a legitimate endeavor when you invite people to partake in your expression publicly. When they do, negativity is going to come. You need to lighten up when it does and not be so touchy. Like I said, your stuff may not be to my taste but I love that you've got the guts to be out there with it for whatever your personal reasons. I just don't think you need to be so defensive or hostile just because others are goading you.

Rock On Babe!

[furrygirl]

I went away for a couple days to focus on work.

Originally Posted by DJilla

But just the opposite, I think I do understand, I understand that you are dealing with your own point of view and expression of it. I'm fully supportive of that and you. What I'm trying to point out is that you may be extremely wrapped up in ONLY your point of view and that you lose sight of the fact that there is probably a large body of people that find your position/expression extreme and therefore threatening, unpleasant, whatever. Because of this you're going to take some hits. The objective part I'm referring to comes from you knowing and accepting this and letting the hits roll off of you like a raincoat and not taking it so personally. Its not a cirticism of you as a person but of your art. This is a legitimate endeavor when you invite people to partake in your expression publicly. When they do, negativity is going to come. You need to lighten up when it does and not be so touchy. Like I said, your stuff may not be to my taste but I love that you've got the guts to be out there with it for whatever your personal reasons. I just don't think you need to be so defensive or hostile just because others are goading you.

Rock On Babe!

There's a difference between being able to be critiqued by colleagues and being told that you're barf-worthy, disgusting, offensive, and that your pussy goo is no different from shit. Those are not mature, productive, objective discussion points, so it's no wonder that I don't have a non-objective response to them.

Secondly, Alex has not been making rational claims or backing up his presumptions with fact. He is fear mongering to the extent of inferring that a little pussy blood could be the end of the porn industry as we know it, and I really shouldn't even have to dignify that sort of panicky-ass finger-pointing behavior with a reply.

I don't understand how we made it to this backwards reality of saying that fright-based sky-is-falling arguments are some kind of "fact" compared my own historically documented "opinion" that the only way that the adult industry has made it this far is because a few people have been willing to go to bat for *all* of us and challenge bad laws and obscenity standards.

[webwoman]

UP DATE attorney interview on Ynot.
http://www.ynot.com/index.php

[RawAlex]

Furrygirl, you don't get it, do you?

MY PERSONALLY OPINION AND MY BUSINESS OPINION ARE DIFFERENT. You can't seem to grasp that very simple concept. I got my freaking red wings long before you were born, that isn't an issue. PERSONALLY I DON'T GIVE A FLYING FUCK WHAT YOU DO.

However, from a business stand point, the rules from V&MC are clear - something are in (including gagging blowjobs, for reason I don't get) and some things are out (blood, scat, bestiality...).

You are trying to say that I think your blood is disgusting. From a business stand point, it is NOT PART OF THE BUSINESS AT THIS POINT. I also don't think that there is enough new or additional income to be had on this type of content to make it worth fighting with V&MC over the content, compared to what could be lost if they decide to restrict current porn any further.

I DON'T DENY YOU YOUR RIGHT TO BE FREE... I don't deny you your right to do what you think is right, and I don't deny you your chance to find out if your material would be judged obscene or not if the DoJ knocks on your door. I just don't want to fuck up the rest of the profitable porn business by pissing off V&MC by trying to get sites accepted one way or another that are not acceptable by their current rules.

Obscenity is a community standard, and my feeling is that blood sites would likely not go over well in all communities (neither would gagging, neither would some of the other sites that are pushing the envelope in whatever direction they are pushing).

You can fight the obscenity side of it all you like, more power to you, and plenty of people here would link to you and watch you go. From a personal standpoint, you can go fight how you like. From a business standpoint, I don't think our industry needs to be dragged into another battle that can easily be turned into bad press and another rally cry to "stop them dirty porn mongers".

You see? Personally I don't care. There are many things that I agree with or even participate in my personal life that are not acceptable in my online BUSINESS. If you can understand the difference, you can retract your insulting, rude, and downright incorrect personal comments about me, which like most everything else you have posted about me have been totally wrong.

I take serious personal offence at your comments.

Alex

[fetish1]

Originally Posted by webwoman

UP DATE attorney interview on Ynot.
http://www.ynot.com/index.php

I guess I am confused, I saw very little (if any...although that certainly doesn't mean I couldn't have missed it) about selling homemade videos on the website as this paragraph from that interview states, but I did see selling packages of time for bdsm services, which the article does not mention.

" Michelle thought that things were starting to settle down in her life. She was getting her finances in order and had found that selling home-made bondage videos through her website provided her with the economic independence she needed to accomplish her goals. She had her professional ducks in a row and was preparing for a successful and satisfying future.
"

[furrygirl]

Alex, either back up your "business standpoint" claims or shut up, I'm sick of hearing you state your own personal conservatism as an irrefutable fact of the entire adult business. You have no idea what you're talking about, and can't find a single example or legal case to try and prove your point.

Show me *one* case where an adult site was prosecuted for blood content (not presented as a part of a greater BDSM/violent context). I don't doubt that it *could* potentially happen, but you act like it happens so constantly that it's become common knowledge on par with not not promoting raping animals. (Always nice to see menstruation listed alongside bestiality, though.)

News to Alex: I didn't invent menstruation. There have been period-focussed sites online for *at least* 4 years, and many more with quiet red content, and I think we all would have noticed if one of them had caused the downfall of the entire adult industry.

It's fine for you to play it safe with your own business, but stop claiming that your personal fears and insecurities should dictate what *I* am allowed to do with my time.

[Chop Smith]

Excuse me...

Has anyone been able to find any coverage of this in the Enfield, CT news medias? I have googled a couple a times since this thread started and have not found any.

Now, back to the secondary discussion - "Why Alex sucks because Visa/MC will not process sites with 'red' content."

[Linkster]

Im gonna butt in here for a sec - and only because I tend to be a little more liberal on issues - I think that a good reference point for everyone that is not familiar with the history of what furrygirl is doing here - http://www4.ncsu.edu/~n51ls801/period.html
is an excellent link to read and get some background.

I will not interject my personal feelings as they do not play in this whatsoever - I think that the whole discussion (no matter how much personal feelings have been jutted in) comes down to a battle between what some think that WMs have the right to publish and promote - vs - the effects of promoting those same ideas/fetishes/etc.

Unfortunately, the two are not opposing viewpoints although they are the talking points that have been taken in this thread.

I believe that both parties really do agree on the moral issue and the freedom of speech/publishing rights issues.

The finer point of the biz issue is really where the contention lies - and should be discussed - I think that both sides have the same outlook personally on freedoms and their sanctity.
This then boils down to one side discussing the effect of "promoting a fetish and the repurcussions on the whole industry" and the other side basing the discussion as if there is no effect and these two basis of thought aren't opposing thoughts - they are completely different basis.

[Chop Smith]

Linkster, quite a diplomatic reach you made here. After reading that article I am off to find some good redneck jokes.

[Linkster]

Originally Posted by Chop Smith

I am off to find some good red neck jokes.

Be very careful - very!!

[MadMax]

Originally Posted by Chop Smith

Linkster, quite a diplomatic reach you made here. After reading that article I am off to find some good redneck jokes.

If I can get in there up to my neck I don't want any |shocking|



Seriously though, well put Linkster

[RawAlex]

Furrygirl, I have been in this business since long before you could legally even think about it. "Business standpoint" is simple: 10 years ago anyone could get processing for anything at any time with little or no requirements no checking. People abused it, and over time, the restrictions on processing got tighter and tighter.

Right now, processing is damn tight (to the point where IMHO it artificially limits the total potential revenue in the industry right now).

The CC companies have set rules with the processors for what they can and cannot process.

Asking for that coverage to be exanded is going against the trend that has been going on for ten years, and is (IMHO) not very likely to have much success. More importantly, considering how little V&MC really thinks about our industry (we are a drop in the bucket for them), asking them for more open space is, IMHO, just a likely to get the opposite result, where some of the more "out there" but currently acceptable things that you site as examples get shut out too.

V&MC can do that in a blink without as much as an explanation.

What do you think the true revenue would be for these sites? Do you think there is 5000 signups a month @ $35 to be made here? Or is it more likely that the niche would attract a few hundred long term loyal members?

If the members are loyal like that, why not just accept money orders or something? Make 1 year memberships, and see how many members you can get.

I don't deny you the right to run the sites, but I understand and accept that V&MC has no interest in processing for them anymore. They have made a business decision. You may not like the decision, but there it is.

Now, on another subject, Furrygirl, I am very very personally insulted by some of the comments you have made about me here. You have spread lies, falsehoods, and made totally misleading statements about me. I look forward to a full and complete apology for them.

Alex

[furrygirl]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Now, on another subject, Furrygirl, I am very very personally insulted by some of the comments you have made about me here. You have spread lies, falsehoods, and made totally misleading statements about me. I look forward to a full and complete apology for them.

Good luck waiting for that. You've been nothing but a condescending misogynist prick to both myself and Trixie throughout both of these theads, but thanks for giving me a laugh.

I couldn't care less if you're older than me, and if harping on your age is the best you can do to prove your point and address all my questions, you're not worth talking to. I prefer to debate with intelligent people who have actual evidence to back up their arguments, but you can't even do that. *All* your arguments rest on hysteria and "everyone knows". If I wanted more of that line of debate, I'd go pick fights with creationists or people who protest abortion clinics.

[furrygirl]

Originally Posted by Linkster

Im gonna butt in here for a sec - and only because I tend to be a little more liberal on issues - I think that a good reference point for everyone that is not familiar with the history of what furrygirl is doing here - http://www4.ncsu.edu/~n51ls801/period.html
is an excellent link to read and get some background.

I saw that one a while ago, and while it's a decent read for people new to the subject, but I found it to be too much like a poorly-strung-together freshman psych term paper, even though he's aparently an associate professor of philosophy. I think it's important to point out that it is written by a male who is not in the adult industry.

Trixie actually wrote a piece from the perspective in a menstruating pornographer in the latest $pread Magazine. I know she and I both want people to support the new publication, but I'll ask and see if she wants to share the scanned story here.

[Tommy]

Originally Posted by furrygirl

Good luck waiting for that. You've been nothing but a condescending misogynist prick to both myself and Trixie throughout both of these theads, but thanks for giving me a laugh.

I couldn't care less if you're older than me, and if harping on your age is the best you can do to prove your point and address all my questions, you're not worth talking to. I prefer to debate with intelligent people who have actual evidence to back up their arguments, but you can't even do that. *All* your arguments rest on hysteria and "everyone knows". If I wanted more of that line of debate, I'd go pick fights with creationists or people who protest abortion clinics.

*You've been nothing but a condescending misogynist prick

*I prefer to debate with intelligent people

*you're not worth talking to

ohh yeah....... he's the condescending prick

[RawAlex]

Furrygirl, your insults don't go very far.

One question: Is the address on your domains names valid?

Alex

[furrygirl]

Aww, it wittle Alex all sad that someone on the playground called him a stupid-head?

Good luck suing me. If I actually though you were a) worth the effort or b) had any money, I'd have an easier time suing you for defaming my company by repeatedly insinutating that what I do is illegal.

[plateman]

Originally Posted by furrygirl

Aww, it wittle Alex all sad that someone on the playground called him a stupid-head?

Good luck suing me. If I actually though you were a) worth the effort or b) had any money, I'd have an easier time suing you for defaming my company by repeatedly insinutating that what I do is illegal.

Maybe he wants to send you a box of kotex and tampons and a fuck you letter...

[cosmiccat]

Waiter....check please!

[DangerDave]

Originally Posted by furrygirl

suing you for defaming my company by repeatedly insinutating that what I do is illegal.

Defamation by insinuation - Hahahaha thats a good one...

My sig has more legal standing..

DD

[plateman]

you know it is getting close to christmas, maybe I send present on for you, you perfer mini or maxi?

[Tommy]

I really doubt he was intending on suing you