Need help /raided and computers seized

[Clare]

I was busted for doing domme/sub sessions out of my apartment a few years ago. After that I completely got out of doing sessions as i never wanted to go thru plain clothes cops storming into my place and terrifying me again. It was my first offense and I got off with a low level misdemeanor. What it came down to was although there was no actual exchange of sex I was not zoned/liscensed for nudity for $.
I suspect Empress M's neighbors may have caught on to what she was doing due to simple traffic. God knows the last thing any of my clients would ever have wanted to do was bother a kid or draw attention to themselves in any way, but doing this in a residense catches up to a lot of people. The fact that no arrest was made seems to me that they really can't prove any kind of sex or even nudity for money or that they were trying to get her on obscenity with her sites but then wouldn't it have to have been federal cops. Maybe the whole thing is just to run he rout of town, and use her materials to find out if she is connceted to any kind of larger sex ring. Or maybe just a local hard on for incall hookers. Anyway , I don't know if she feels confident enough to post on this board anymore but I would liek to hear how things come out. Of course get a lawyer, FSC can reccommend great ones and after her experience I am sure she'll reconsider working independently ever again. From what i see on her sites she has taken the donation info down, probably a good move.

[furrygirl]

Originally Posted by domweb

There is all this discussion about whether or not she is a prostitute in a residential zone and nothing about the fact that she isn't allowed, under law, to practice BDSM.

Maybe you are just mad because she might be cutting in on your online sales by going direct to the customer instead of being pimped by you?

Actually, I tried both of those arguments earlier, but people don't really like reading my posts.

[Tubey]

Hmmm, does the term session mean sex or therapy or what? and is there a description of services? asking for a tribute or donation does not break any law IE thos involved with Katrina and more, but if there is a description of services then there is a problem.
As far as other things I would check the local laws...there are alot of laws still in the books that have been forgotten or just not enforced but I would imagine that if some prosecuter needed it, it would come out quick. We all have heard of stupid laws still in the books but not enforced.....right?
But get a lawyer figure it out and let us know how it turns out.........

[koalat]

Granted I'm pretty new at this whole adult webmaster thing, but in my overall experience I've never seen people in trouble with law enforcement officials who weren't doing anything wrong.

Cops usually have better things to do than give trouble to tax paying, law abiding citizens who are minding their business.

I guess donations for services like that wouldn't exactly be reported on a tax return though. Tax reasons are probably one of the biggest areas that would attract the attention of the authorities...

[walrus]

Originally Posted by koalat

Granted I'm pretty new at this whole adult webmaster thing, but in my overall experience I've never seen people in trouble with law enforcement officials who weren't doing anything wrong.

Cops usually have better things to do than give trouble to tax paying, law abiding citizens who are minding their business.

I guess donations for services like that wouldn't exactly be reported on a tax return though. Tax reasons are probably one of the biggest areas that would attract the attention of the authorities...

Wish I could say the same thing! Even though I have never gotten more than a speeding ticket or two, let alone be arrested for any type of illegal activity, I have had my apartment searched at least six times in the last 5 years and my car / bike searched more time than I can remember.

Why?! Probably because I do ride a bike, have long hair and look like your prototypical biker. Mind you I fly no colors or belong to any affiliations (except porn).

Quite simply, I'm just a big ugly fucker, with long hair and a beard, who rides a bike but that's enough to warrant police attention even when I'm sitting at home in my skivvies posting porn on my blogs.

[domweb]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

I understand how you've become offended by this thread, I truly do.

Actually, UW...I am not offended. Realy. More like very amused.

I meant no previous insults to hookers, by the way! I like hookers! I like escorts! I have never used them, but I think they are darn nifty things to have around.

I'll respond to the flood my comment unleashed later when I have had more sleep.

But, I am not offended.

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

I'm penalizing your argument 5 points for that statement because you're grasping at straws. Bringing 9/11 into this discussion is almost as silly as telling the U.N. that Iraq blew up the towers.

Aw...COME ON! Someone brought up pedophilia! I get to make a reference to 9/11! Next we'll bring up Nazi's!

[robwebster]

Thanks you to those of you that have supported me on this board.

After meeting with are attorney today, we have realized the seriousness of what is happening in the adult industry. Not being informed by someone who knows the law is a mistake for everyone. No one knows the extent of the new laws that exist. This is why so many different opinions exist in this thread. If there were one law that covered everything in the adult industry we would all have the exact same answer.
Today was an eye opening experience, which will help me in the future of my business. I would suggest to those of you who want to protect yourself and your businesses, to become 100% 2257 compliant, first Get a First amendment attorney, a civil rights attorney, an entertainment attorney, and possibly good criminal attorney. Together they can help you make your business as secure as possible and cover all the aspects. And also look at all risks that that goes along with an adult based company, Get real facts not second hand facts like opinions.
After what I learned today I think you all should take a hard look at your own sites and also who’s on your sites. Check all your paper work on 2257. Check you’re zoning even if you just sit behind your pc. Check your Content it is very important. Make sure if you run a tgp site, hosting company, link lists. Adult dating sites, review sites, modeling sites,
Or if you are just a sole proprietor of your websites PLEASE CHECK YOUR CONTENT. Ask your lawyer to review the content before you post it on your site.
Remember that it might not be you they want, but someone else that they are trying to gather information about.
Sometimes they have to find out what your involvement is with the other person to make their case stick. Thank god for good lawyers that can prove that your involvement was only through purchasing a product or content from someone who may have something else going on. The question of my inventory of items that were taken .I will be getting them back and now can move on with a fully compliant site. This is a very expensive business to maintain. I can tell you one thing it was not prostitution or my content, but while they were here they decided to take items that could be considered contraband It stands to reason that they would have to take it all because it was unusual.
Again thank you all for the info and help.
rob and webwoman

[furrygirl]

Originally Posted by koalat

Granted I'm pretty new at this whole adult webmaster thing, but in my overall experience I've never seen people in trouble with law enforcement officials who weren't doing anything wrong.

Stick around a few months. Or read up on the history of the smut business in America.

[RawAlex]

Furrygirl, let me say this: If you stick with "boy meets girl, boy fucks girl" porn, with 2257 documentation, then all the BS that the government throws is BS. There are a few counties where that would still be an issue, but I don't mail or send physical media to these places, so there is very little chance of an issue.

However, if you, say, wrap a camera in plastic and pee on it and sell the tape, you might want to get a lawyers advice before you send that to many, many states and counties in the US. In fact, your local community standards might not even support that. Can you buy watersports videos at your local sex shop?

Could the images of you flashing in a public park be an issue? Did you get a location release?

Can you buy menstruation videos at your local store?

If you read the history of the smut business is America, you will see that the people taking the brunt of the government's agression are the people living on the edge, taking chances, and often in fact being ahead of the obscenity curve. They can nail you for all sorts of strange and normally unimportant laws, like zoning, public health, location permits, tax rules, and so on. Please consider the recent case of Goalie Entertainment, where charge after charge was piled on until a plea agreement (that involved closing many stores) was reached.

I appreciate your efforts, if only because the government sure ain't going to look at me for obscenity. You are one of the fastest cars on the highway, don't be surprised if you get a speeding ticket.

Alex

[Useless]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

You are one of the fastest cars on the highway, don't be surprised if you get a speeding ticket.

Damn, I love a good metaphor.

So rob, do you know the charges yet, or the charges they originally intending on bringing down on you? You said a lot about 2257, but then said your content wasn't an issue. Inquiring minds want to know. The fact that police would raid a pornographer's home doesn't shock me at all. It's the failure to inform you of their intent that I find disturbing. I'm just wondering if they did indeed have the legal documents necesary to perform the search.

[SirMoby]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

I'm just wondering if they did indeed have the legal documents necesary to perform the search.

You'll have to check with a lawyer but I don't think it matters if they have the docs if they failed to present them to you.

[webwoman]

Alex,

I see that you have a link site with the content on it that could be questionable.. Please words of advice…. check it. …You may have overlooked them when you put up your site. As far as the comments that you made about me, my sites, and my life has not changed my opinion about you or those like you. Your posts indicate not how you feel about me but how you view the world. I’m not your first crusade and won’t be your last.
It might be a good idea to read all your post not just in this thread but in all the ones you ever written. Here and anywhere else that you post. .understand.. That it’s not my intention to put you down or to make comments about you. But to only help you because my life has disturbed you at a level that’s not normal. Before I became a webmaster my job was to care for patients who had serious issues. You have made it your job to take on others problems which does not allow you time for your own.. That’s a hard life.
Good luck Alex I mean no harm.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by webwoman

Alex,

Your posts indicate not how you feel about me but how you view the world. I’m not your first crusade and won’t be your last.
It might be a good idea to read all your post not just in this thread but in all the ones you ever written. Here and anywhere else that you post.

You need to go back through this thread and soak in how many others said things like "I agree with you Alex" or "All your points are good Alex". The man has been giving you sound advice from the beginning of this thread you have chosen to fight instead of acknowledge it for what it is. YOU are the one who was raided and YOU are the one who seems to be all but oblivious as to why your home was raided. Others have chosen to misinterpret his words and that's what you are reading. He didn't call you a whore. He doesn't think that you are an evil person for enjoying your kink. He pretty much just said that you fucked up and it's not a huge surprise that you got snagged. The man is not a prude.

As to the content that you feel is questionable ON his link list, could you be more specific? You are talking about the single most legally anal webmaster I've met. (Sorry Alex )

[RawAlex]

Me anal? Heh-heh... I just enjoy reading legal texts and enjoy extracting the potential meanings in them. I operate my business in compliance with the laws of Canada (where I live and where my material is published from for terms of USC 18 section 2257, even if the servers are located in the US). I use entirely licensed content.

I do not list to sites that have material that I know is illegal. I use the "video store" standard to help me in this regard, as well as the reasoned and published judgements of the Canadian courts regarding adult materials. Did you know, example, that not 20 years ago most men's magazines came to Canada with black dots covering actual penetration? Did you know that our "premium" movie channels show hardcore porn up to but not including male cumshots - but will show penetration, oral, and such, and will linger on those shots?

webwoman, you got raided. You didn't know why you got raided (and you appear to be loath to tell us why, now that apparently you know), but in looking at the public face of your business, I was able to determine certain things that would certainly raise eyebrows in most communities. You didn't know why you got raided, and I put forward sound potential reasons for the police action. I also showed where the comments you made and your assertions slipped and slid around and were not complete in disclosure. Those things make it hard for anyone to follow along.

Bringing it to the board, trust me, you will get feedback. We are on page 6. That should tell you that people have an opinion on the subject of both the police action and what (and how) you make a living.

You life doesn't disturb me in the least. Would it surprise you to find out that I know where many of the dungeons are in Montreal? That I know where and what night the local fetish clubs hold their "kink nights?" - or that I am on a first name basis with one of the best makers of PVC and other fetish clothing in Montreal? While I don't participate, it doesn't mean I look down my nose at them, far from it. I appreciate their ability to openly enjoy their passions in life, no matter how far they are from the mainstream. That is never an issue.

The issues that do exist (and they are all aware of it) is when you move from amateur to professional, you take a risk of running afoul of sex laws because for legal purposes, sex and BDSM are often linked. They know and understand that to pursue their chosen lifestyle on a paying basis is to run hard and close to those acceptable limits. They, as a result, work carefully and not in the public eye. The dungeons in Montreal are for the most part are in commercial lofts and similar non-residential areas to avoid the types of problems that can occur when you mix the lifestyle and the "straight world".

Based on that google map, it would appear that you are very much on the border, and that you have chosen to live you life and lifestyle in a very public way. In doing so, you do leave yourself open for the shots that come as a result of being such a wide open target.

Offering opinions and help on this board is a part of my business life, and has rewarded me with contacts within the community that help me to build my business. Think of it as "community service". I know, it is an unusual thing, actually doing something without getting a donation, but it happens. Plus these legal issues do give me a chance to expand my horizons and learn about subjects I might not otherwise look at. The bonus of learning something new is always worth the effort. I could teach you how that works, but I would likely have to charge more than $300 an hour.

Alex

[Chop Smith]

But if she stays all night, you will give her a discount?

[Linkster]

I have a question based on what I have read here - there has been a lot of stuff thrown around but two facts dont seem to match up here - the original poster stated that a raid occured by local and state authorities - yet since the original post there has been a lot of 2257 "banter" thrown out here. As far as I was aware, only federal authorities can inspect or take action on federal law - although they may be assisted by local authorities in their presence, but there has been no mention of a DOJ inspector or a FBI representative??? Or was this just embellishment added for the fear factor????

[GonZo]

Originally Posted by Linkster

I have a question based on what I have read here - there has been a lot of stuff thrown around but two facts dont seem to match up here - the original poster stated that a raid occured by local and state authorities - yet since the original post there has been a lot of 2257 "banter" thrown out here. As far as I was aware, only federal authorities can inspect or take action on federal law - although they may be assisted by local authorities in their presence, but there has been no mention of a DOJ inspector or a FBI representative??? Or was this just embellishment added for the fear factor????

I think the bullshit whistle sounded yet again.

[selena]

Originally Posted by Tommy

I would be interested in hearing your side of it

your supposed to participate in board discussions or are you to busy to be bothered now that you got your new cushy job

You got that right. I am too cozy in my lap of luxury.

Seriously, I see points to both sides of things, really.

It just seemed to me that there was a very anti-BDSM theme to some of the posts. It could be that I read more into it than what was there.

[Hammer]

The 2257 talk is all moot because the DOJ cannot conduct inspections or arrest anyone for 2257 related issues right now. If 2257 was brought up at any point as being the reason or one of the reasons for the raid, then you need to contact the FSC immediately.

[RawAlex]

I think there is a possiblity of not asking about 2257 records by name, but the typical police "bet you are using underage models". The only reference by webwoman is "i have all my legal paper work as far as taxes 2257 and zoning ect." (I searched the thread for 2257)

No matter WHO knocks at the door, possession of child pornography is always an issue. Why technically only the DoJ can ask for 2257 records, regular and local police could in theory charge you with possessing child porn, and your proof that it is not child porn is your 2257 records. They don't have to ask to see the records, they just can put in you a place where you have to show them to prove the point.

NOTE! This doesn't appear to have anything to do with this thread / raid - just an observation.

Alex

[Linkster]

Alex - I was actually asking the question because it was brought up by robwebster who I guess is involved with this - and didnt know what the significance of the two paragraphs about it was??? I also noted that the theme of linklists and theyre containing "content" keeps getting brought up - again I believe in a "fear factor- stir the pot" type of way - since we all know that linking to other sites is not covered by the current 2257 (the one thats been around for 10 years) and I just was asking the question as I dont understand why its being interjected into a discussion about prostitution and purient sex laws???

I believe that most states - and Im sure their state does also - define BDSM as a prohibited sexual act - so it would be up to how it was being disseminated as to whether a charge could stick or not - but then a webmaster board would not be the best place for legal advice anyway

[Chop Smith]

Originally Posted by Hammer

The 2257 talk is all moot because the DOJ cannot conduct inspections or arrest anyone for 2257 related issues right now. If 2257 was brought up at any point as being the reason or one of the reasons for the raid, then you need to contact the FSC immediately.

You think? This board is full of post from several months ago where posters were saying that you would only be covered by the injunction if you were a member of the FSC.

Is the fucking membership drive closed now?

[GonZo]

This thread is classic.
Thanks Green Guy and Jim for not closing it down!

[furrygirl]

Oh please, Alex, as though I need some TGP owner trying to tell me about RISK.

What on earth do you know about RISK?

A TGP owner is perhaps the most removed element in the entire adult industry and has nearly no vested interest in industry issues. Half the sites online could have their owners sent to prison for transmitting images to conservative areas where sodomy is illegal, and you'd just switch sponsor programs. You just link to things, you have no actual investment in any part of the process of creating porn. You're not a model, who could be stalked or killed by a crazy fan; you're not a photographer, who could be attacked by a jealous boyfriend or have the cops come over and inspect his home because someone told someone that he also has children, even though they've never been exposed to anything adult; you're not a site owner, you don't have to worry about being prosecuted for the content you feature or worry about charge backs and script kiddies fucking with your site.

Until you have even the tiniest grasp of what it means to take *risks* as a part of the adult industry, please, stick to the things you do know something about.

As a model and performer, photographer, webmaster, business-owner, and adult novelty retailer, MY LIFE IS RISK. I live with that every single day, and I am fully aware of the implications of everything I do. I have devoted more than three years of my life to making porn that is often "risky".

Originally Posted by RawAlex

However, if you, say, wrap a camera in plastic and pee on it and sell the tape, you might want to get a lawyers advice before you send that to many, many states and counties in the US. In fact, your local community standards might not even support that. Can you buy watersports videos at your local sex shop?

Where do you get that I send people watersports tapes in the mail? I have pee videos and pictures on my site, and offered one to Emmanuelle. It's not some secret dirty thing, but thanks for expressing enough interest in me to read all of my posts and thoroughly inspect my free tour.

And yes, I can buy or rent piss videos here in Seattle, we are a city of perverts and queers. We even have an amateur porn film festival and a ton of adult-oriented clubs and events.

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Could the images of you flashing in a public park be an issue? Did you get a location release?

As someone else brought up on this thread, perhaps even in response to you, you are in no place to bitch at anyone about things like location releases if you haven't seen documentation that all the porn on your TGP was shot in places where the property owner signed a contract to allow adult material to be shot there. You're grasping at straws, you might as well have found the photos in my members area where I'm standing in the middle of an empty road and accuse me of jaywalking.

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Can you buy menstruation videos at your local store?

No, but I'd like to change that. If I ever make a DVD for EroticRed.com, I'll be out there the next day talking to local stores to carry it and hope they'll join me in fighting bullshit.

I understand that people like you can't understand big complicated concepts like "ethics" and "sexual freedom", since those things don't have affiliate programs with $40 PPSs. But, to people like me who do care about things other than money, sexual freedoms and ethics are incredibly important, perhaps *the most* important thing. I will continue fighting anti-menstruation hysteria, despite the fact that I know better than you do that I could well go to prison for it. And you know what? Fighting sexism and promoting health sexuality is *that* important to me. Finding a wonderful controversial way to stir debate between indie pornographers and "regular" women about our bodies and our sexuality is *that* important to me. Making porn that doesn't deny actual female experiences is *that* important to me.

But go on, keep believing that "legitimate" porn is where girls are throat-fucked until the vomit and cry, and menstruating pussy on a nude model is an abomination. I don't expect you to change your point of view.

I can't remember who said it, but there's an old quote about how attitudes never actually change about anything, and that the only way we progress as a society is as the old guard dies out. Well, say hello to little Furry Girl, the next generation of smut-peddlers, catering to the next generation of smut customers.

Originally Posted by RawAlex

I appreciate your efforts, if only because the government sure ain't going to look at me for obscenity.

Which just proved my original point even more: people in your removed-from-everything situation care fuck-all about the other people in the industry or about general sexual freedoms or first amendment issues, you're simply looking out for yourself. Well, I actually take pride in my work and believe in what I'm doing on a higher level than making money, I'm not just linking to people who are taking all the risks for me.

You're like a chubby kid saying that you're thrilled that a fatter kid has moved to your school this year, so people will pick on him instead- hell, even you can pick on him, too! Some day, some of you might realize the truth in the old adage of

First they came for the Communists but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists but I was not one of them, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews but I was not Jewish so I did not speak out. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.

When you get your way, and all the big bad evil people like myself are in prison, who's head do you think will be next on the block?

[webwoman]

Thank you for your continued efforts in your views on the adult industry. It could certainly use more people like you.
i'm in 100% agreement.
webwoman