GIM and ARS get back in bed together

[romeoboi]

Just reading through the CHAMPS section of the ARSRI message board and found this thread:
http://stats.arsri.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=1052

and this was posted by a GIM rep:
"Well I really like the CHAMPS idea and would like to participate.

So in the next few weeks expect to see some classic GIM site names reborn as CHAMPS sites

First to be released will be Adult Movie Station. Our designers are already on it now.

We also plan to build some nice exclusive content sites.

I can't promise we will bring them all back but some of biggest ones for sure."

JohnV from ARS posted this:
"Dave and the rest of the crew at GIM, that sounds like great news. Bring back Teen Dreamer, All Petite and some of the other best sellers."

I have to say a I'm a little confused. Weren't most of the paysites in ARS' old portfolio from GIM and subsequently dropped from ARS because they didn't perform well

Maybe I don't understand the companies' relationship, but I thought they stopped the old GIM sites because they didn't convert and/or retain well. Why are they getting into the CHAMPS game now? Why didnt ARS and GIM just re-design the sites in the old portfolio with the new CHAMPS concept/pricing instead of taking them down and sending everyone's traffic to FMAO?

I'm not neccessarily mad, but confused. As a new CHAMPS webmaster who has a tour up, I'm excited about the new program and am hopeful it will get through its growing pains to become a viable program.

However, I'm concerned GIM will get back in the CHAMPS system and dominate it. Whats to stop ARS and the GIM relationship from desolving again?

Maybe someone from ARS can explain a little further about how the old relationship worked and how the new one will. I'm also curious to see everyone who is more experienced and/or does this full time has to say....


any opinions?

[RockDaddy]

Doesn't matter one way or the other to me, once they started using extortion as a business practice, that was it for me (the whole promote us or lose your points thing)

But I think that they have new backend policies now so GIM would basically just be providing the tour with the content/backend coming from wherever, however they have it set up now. This is just all speculation because I have no solid knowledge about this.

[Greenguy]

You should really read the news a little more - we posted this on Friday

It'll be good to have more CHAMPS sites to promote, but the GIM aspect doesn't mean much to me as they won't have the cheap/free trial like before, thus all the old marketing for them will have to change.

It would have been nice if they decided to do this 6 weeks ago as well - would have saved swapping out a shitload of link codes

[RockDaddy]

Can't believe I've never seen that news page, lot's of good info there. Back to the ARS thing, I was kind of hoping some other big company would have jumped in and took ARS's position with GIM and things could have kept rollin' along as they were.

[stuveltje]

I am still swapping links

[romeoboi]

sorry for not checking the news page!

I check my GG&J emails and the business board frequently, but I guess I missed it. I just posted it because the whole ARS thing was controversial and I wasn't sure if other people were aware of GIM getting back in the game with them.

Yes, ARS will control the backend more. But I guess to me, it just brings up more questions about why things weren't fixed instead of abandoned.

anyway, i was just curious to see what other people felt about it, but I guess it was old news! SORRY!

[gideon]

They needed alot of traffic to feed FMAO

[4Pics]

My guess is they lost alot of traffic and revenue (no exit consoles).

They thought everything would go fine but it hasn't, I've not sent anywhere near the same traffic as I was prior.

I also didnt make $1 from the rev-share deal they have with *************. I did make a few bucks with fmao but now they took some of that back.

Word to any other sponsor, dont kill what you have. Launch a new program and try to move affiliates to promoting it by better payouts/rewards etc.

[Amber]

I had posted regarding this on another board...but it deems repeating.

We relinquished our business relationship with the GIM sites because it became unprofitable. The sponsor model of having too high payouts for increasingly unprofitable traffic does not work, it's certainly not the wave of the future. We at ARS were losing money for having such high payouts at very low trial price points. That's why we decided to be proactive in getting rid of that program, dropping the BYOT cookie-cutter sites, not charging members too much per month, and positioning our business model to be a true win/win/win situation.

Webmasters win because they are getting a great payout, with sites that RETAIN, and their income grows from immediate to long term profits; ARS webmasters also have complete control of their exit traffic, receive free insurance and get weekly payouts to name a few.

ARS wins because we are giving webmasters and ourselves a very strong foundation for future growth by offering high quality members areas that are profitable for everyone. And the customer wins because they are getting 100% exclusive content members areas through www.ars4real.com , and a huge variety of unique quality members areas through www.arschamps.com .

I'm very happy to see the GIM sites come back as CHAMPS sites; they will not only be improved upon in price points, but also the members areas will boast their content as well as the DVD quality CHAMPS content (fyi: scenes can only be used a max of 5 times across the whole AVP network). Members will have access to every other site in the Adult Video Planet portfolio too. GIM will have to follow the same guidelines as ALL CHAMPS sites.

It's no secret that some programs stoop to shaving webmasters because they're running unprofitable business models right now - a few of them will make the necessary changes, and some will fall out completely. Either way, we'll continue to grow and change with the times giving webmasters a huge variety of money making options.

That's my 2 pennies anyway.

[busty1]

Originally posted by romeoboi
Why didnt ARS and GIM just re-design the sites in the old portfolio with the new CHAMPS concept/pricing instead of taking them down and sending everyone's traffic to FMAO?

If I where A cynical person I Might Think ........ Oh Never mind I better not

[Greenguy]

I just have to play Devil's Advocate.....and let me 1st say that I am a big supporter of ARS.

When Marc came on the radio show, he said that one of the major reasons for the changes at ARS was that the GIM sites were loosing money. A lot of money.

Now, I can see ARS getting rid of them because they were loosing money - hell, if ARS's other programs/products made $10 a day but the GIM sites were loosing $5 a day, getting rid of the GIM sites would of course increase ARS's bottom line.

But you can't tell me that whatever problems the GIM sites had are now corrected just because they are in the CHAMPS system. If the problems could have been corrected this quickly (8 weeks) then I think ARS would have & could have saved themselves a shit load of grief, controversy & pissed off webmasters by making those corrections behind the scenes & just left everything the way it was.

Everyday, I'm still finding GIM & BYOT links on pages that I built & I have to change them to something else

Now we're all supposed to just go back to promoting these sites that ARS stated are loosing money?

Knowing this info, why would anyone promote the GIM sites? Especially using the recurring option?

Plus - these sites will NOT convert like they did 3 months ago - it's much, much easier to convince a surfer to spend $0-5 on a trial than it is to convince them to drop $25-40 right off the bat.

I'll probably give the GIM CHAMPS sites a shot, but I will be using the Per Sign-up option & not pushing them as hard as I did in previous years.

[Amber]

Originally posted by Greenguy
I just have to play Devil's Advocate.....and let me 1st say that I am a big supporter of ARS.

When Marc came on the radio show, he said that one of the major reasons for the changes at ARS was that the GIM sites were loosing money. A lot of money.

Now, I can see ARS getting rid of them because they were loosing money - hell, if ARS's other programs/products made $10 a day but the GIM sites were loosing $5 a day, getting rid of the GIM sites would of course increase ARS's bottom line.

But you can't tell me that whatever problems the GIM sites had are now corrected just because they are in the CHAMPS system. If the problems could have been corrected this quickly (8 weeks) then I think ARS would have & could have saved themselves a shit load of grief, controversy & pissed off webmasters by making those corrections behind the scenes & just left everything the way it was.

Everyday, I'm still finding GIM & BYOT links on pages that I built & I have to change them to something else

Now we're all supposed to just go back to promoting these sites that ARS stated are loosing money?

Knowing this info, why would anyone promote the GIM sites? Especially using the recurring option?

Plus - these sites will NOT convert like they did 3 months ago - it's much, much easier to convince a surfer to spend $0-5 on a trial than it is to convince them to drop $25-40 right off the bat.

I'll probably give the GIM CHAMPS sites a shot, but I will be using the Per Sign-up option & not pushing them as hard as I did in previous years.

Greenguy,

The GIM sites are coming back as part of the CHAMPS program, but not within the unprofitable scenario of the old program or old business model (which was losing money due to low trial prices with too high payouts)...it wasn't that the sites sucked or anything (as you know since they've sold well for you before).

Also, the GIM sites will be updated with DVD quality content from CHAMPS like all the CHAMPS members areas are. Every CHAMPS members area, including the GIM CHAMPS sites members areas, auto include a top frame/bar that links back to the main AVP site listing as well as links to troubleshooting etc....this way members get full access to all participating sites in the Adult Video Planet/CHAMPS global network. Members will be able to navigate from site to site with ease and get a boat-load of unique content and DVD quality movies that they were not able to get with the old GIM sites.

Once you give some CHAMPS sites a run, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

[Greenguy]

Like I said before, they will not convert the same for most webmasters because it is much harder to sell the surfer on a non-trial site

I truly do hope they will retain members better than before, but it would have been nice to make these changes to the GIM sites 8 weeks ago instead of the FMAO thing - which I have stated in the past that I thought would work - LOL - Hindsight is always 20/20

So far with CHAMP's I'm converting 1:1045 which is less then spectacular

Oh - wll the old GIM link codes be redirected to the new GIM CHAMP's sites once they are online?

[becky]

Originally posted by Greenguy
I just have to play Devil's Advocate.....and let me 1st say that I am a big supporter of ARS.

When Marc came on the radio show, he said that one of the major reasons for the changes at ARS was that the GIM sites were loosing money. A lot of money.

Now, I can see ARS getting rid of them because they were loosing money - hell, if ARS's other programs/products made $10 a day but the GIM sites were loosing $5 a day, getting rid of the GIM sites would of course increase ARS's bottom line.

But you can't tell me that whatever problems the GIM sites had are now corrected just because they are in the CHAMPS system. If the problems could have been corrected this quickly (8 weeks) then I think ARS would have & could have saved themselves a shit load of grief, controversy & pissed off webmasters by making those corrections behind the scenes & just left everything the way it was.

The correction that had to take place was a change in the billing model. The sites as they were did not warrant a $39.99 monthly price. However, there was no way we could lower the price to reflect a proper cost and still pay as high as we were for the trials. Very low retention (low 20%) and hence very low member value combined with high chargebacks (they were over the 1% limit) tied our hands on trying to save the GIM sites. Believe me, the decision wasn't an easy one, and we continue to work through it even today.

Originally posted by Greenguy
Everyday, I'm still finding GIM & BYOT links on pages that I built & I have to change them to something else

Now we're all supposed to just go back to promoting these sites that ARS stated are loosing money?

Knowing this info, why would anyone promote the GIM sites? Especially using the recurring option?

The difference between the GIM sites then and the GIM CHAMP sites that are being worked on now are the model that they are promoted under. Before, they were cookie cutter sites paying $30 on $1 trials with content that can be seen in just about any other paysite member's area. Now, they will be downloadable dvd movie sites where the member also gets access to every other site in the network. That is a drastic change. The only thing that will remain are the names and design elements.

Originally posted by Greenguy
Plus - these sites will NOT convert like they did 3 months ago - it's much, much easier to convince a surfer to spend $0-5 on a trial than it is to convince them to drop $25-40 right off the bat.

I disagree. With the numbers I'm looking at, the CHAMP sites are converting better than the ARS 4 Real sites. CHAMP has no trial, ARS 4 Real sites do. I have an article in the ARS CHAMPS forum on the ARS board that gives some pointers on how to sell full month subscriptions if you want to check it out

Originally posted by Greenguy
I'll probably give the GIM CHAMPS sites a shot, but I will be using the Per Sign-up option & not pushing them as hard as I did in previous years. [/b]

I bet when you find the sites and marketing pitch that work to convert well for you, you'll push even more than before

[Jim]

Becky
You know that Greenguy and I only wish the best for you. There have just been a couple of things that left a bad taste in our mouths. The first for me was saying that if a webmaster did not continue to promote ars sites, they would lose their reward points. I was very happy to hear on our radio show when Marc said that you guys had changed your minds about that. The next of course, is the GIM sites. There is an easy way to fix that. Just make all previous links going to those sites start working again.

We have both seen too many programs stop promoting sites only to start again with different link codes. It is not the first time to the Rodeo for either of us. And as easy to find someone cheating a program, it is as easy to see why a program would use different links for existing sites.

[becky]

I'll admit the decision regarding rewards points wasn't the one of our best, and we quickly changed our minds. The intention wasn't to hijack points at all, just to clear out old points on accounts that aren't being used anymore.

About the GIM sites, what do you mean change linking codes? I'm a bit confused on what the point you are trying to get across is. Help me out and I'll be able to respond better.

As always, lots of love to both you guys

[Jim]

I will give you an example of the linking codes.
Just after my ex-asshole partner shut down Ultracash, he opened it up with new linking codes. The reason for that was to get traffic for free. I understand that it is not the same with you. But, there has got to be a ton of pages out there with the old linking codes still on them. A huge sign of good faith would be to stop redirecting those codes and start sending them to the new and improved GIM sites.

[becky]

There isn't much traffic left from those old links I can tell you that. We did what we could to make the most of it for webmasters, but it obviously just isn't the same as it was sending to the GIM sites.

I dont have any issues with sending the traffic that is still out there to a respective GIM site in the CHAMP program as they become available (that would be the new and improved GIM sites you are referring to )

What it comes down to is ARS has in essence started over. We were huge before the change over. Thousands of affiliates to work with, lots of attention by entities we don't want looking at us (ISPs regarding spam, Acacia, etc.) lots of business partners to look after, more and more employees to keep up with, etc. This change has helped us get back to concentrating on those things that are most important - providing good products and services to monetize traffic for anyone who chooses to send it to us. We are going to be around for the long run, and I will earn business back by everyone one way or another.

Two things about ARS have never changed and they never will. Those are on time weekly payments and dedicated service and support for our business partners !!!

[Greenguy]

Becky - ya know I love ya!

My major point on all of this was that 8 weeks ago, there was no hope at all for the GIM sites - now there's all kinds of hopes & dreams for them. I don't know (nor do I pretend to know) what went on behind the scenes when you guys were loosing money hand over fist with the GIM sites, but it seems like this option of revamping the insides & changing the payment options (for surfers & webmasters) should have come up 8 weeks ago during the "What are we going to do?" phase of the future of ARS.

It just seems like this could have been done (or at least started) at the end of Feb, starting with the GIM sites that were retaining the worst, changing them to the no trial/lower payout option & then going down the list until you had a list of GIM sites that had to be promoted one way & a list that could still be promoted the other way (I doubt that all the GIM sites were retaining so badly & had so many chargebacks)


As far as Jim & the link codes - I think we're just wondering if the old GIM links codes will redirect to the new GIM CHAMPS sites once they come online.

[becky]

Unfortunately, time was our enemy during this transition. We just didn't have the 3-4 months to make the transition that you are suggesting. When you are losing as much as we were on each signup that came in multiplied by the thousands of signups a day we were doing (we were getting close to the 5000 daily mark) we had to change almost immediately to stop the leak.

I think the change we went through, although very difficult for all involved, will turn out to be a blessing in disguise for a lot of people, us included.

[plateman]

I agree with jim and greenguy and I just started in this biz maybe 3 or 4 months before the gim sites went south, built some free sites, so then i built a link list with dam near all of the gim sites and banners so now the traffic gets redirected to the nearest match and the rest goes to fmao and my little traffic i do have gets put through the ringer so instead of pulling links and changing a shit load of banners i just left them there out of being pissed off.. so if they do bring some back i hope the old codes work