DAYUM it's getting harder and harder to find decent linklists that actually review

[JK]

Maybe you can. If there were more people submitting decent sites, I probably would. I can count on one hand the number of decent submitters GPL has.

I'm all for anything that increases the amount of quality submits.

[LeRoy]

Just out of curiosity.

What do expect from a Link List?

Page rank? alexa ranking?

What kind of traffic? Specific sub niches or general?

How much traffic does there need to be to make it worth it for you to submit on a regular basis?

I dont mean to to offend but...

Before I go spewing "hey submit to me man"

[Bill]

Well, traffic is always the most important consideration. But the simple truth is that there are only between 4-6 linklists that send so much traffic that they are important, and by traffic alone they engender loyalty.

After those top traffic lls, the factors that engender the most loyalty for me are:

1. they treat their submitters fairly, and don't bury/hide the links in an attempt to strip every last signup off the traffic before deigning to let the surfer see our sites.

I'd rather submit to a site that treats me fairly and sends 10 hits a week than to a site that treats me like I'm a sucker and sends 50. And I'd sure as fuck rather put a fair person in the same table as greeny, tommy, and penisbot.

2. they review regularly, reliably, in a reasonable time, and accept pretty much every site once they know you, and aren't assholes about little picky shit.

alexa, PR - well, one is aware of such things sure, and they might affect being willing to test a site, but they don't in themselves mean enough to obsess over.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Bill

1. they treat their submitters fairly, and don't bury/hide the links in an attempt to strip every last signup off the traffic before deigning to let the surfer see our sites.

I'd rather submit to a site that treats me fairly and sends 10 hits a week than to a site that treats me like I'm a sucker and sends 50. And I'd sure as fuck rather put a fair person in the same table as greeny, tommy, and penisbot.

2. they review regularly, reliably, in a reasonable time, and accept pretty much every site once they know you, and aren't assholes about little picky shit.

alexa, PR - well, one is aware of such things sure, and they might affect being willing to test a site, but they don't in themselves mean enough to obsess over.

Want to hear something semi humorous? I lost almost all of the submitters at my largest link list when I stopped reviewing and re-scripted it to list their links automatically upon submission. I'm told that the 3-4 remaining semi-regular submitters don't mind the lack of competition. (I don't have any daily submitters.) There are days when the casual observer viewing the index might wonder who owns the site, Simon or Red Cherry.

As much as having more submitters might be beneficial from a fresh content standpoint, it's also a pain the ass, especially if one is as anal as I am, which is why I don't go whoring for more. I really like knowing that I don't have to check the site because the current few active submitters never do anything that annoys me. OK, there's one guy whose English isn't the best, so his titles sometimes make me cringe, but I can live with that.

It's actually quite difficult to design a link list that is mutually beneficial to both the owner and the submitter. On one hand, you want to get traffic to the listings so that you can please the submitter and create loyalty. One the other hand, if the surfers aren't pausing on your ads, owning the link list is a waste of time. I keep an eye on where my revenue is coming from, so I know that I earn more from banners than I do listing FHGs. I also know that I hardly ever see a sale created by the uppermost banner spot on my index, no matter which sponsor or banner I use. I'll probably end up removing it again, which will bring the listings up another 300 pixels. But then I'll feel foolish for not using that space!

A lot of link list owners need to heed Simon's advice about generating traffic. We're beyond a decade past the build it and they will come era of internet porn, yet many owners still sit around hoping for traffic to increase by pure will power. Good luck with that.

I'd be happy to see some level of evolution in the free site/link list wing of this industry, but I doubt it will occur. Though the status quo is forcing everyone out of business, the forces of change are weak.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Want to hear something semi humorous? I lost almost all of the submitters at my largest link list when I stopped reviewing and re-scripted it to list their links automatically upon submission. I'm told that the 3-4 remaining semi-regular submitters don't mind the lack of competition. (I don't have any daily submitters.) There are days when the casual observer viewing the index might wonder who owns the site, Simon or Red Cherry.

Huh. That's definitely a curious effect.

http://www.filthyearl.com/ , right? I just checked it out, got a nice look. And the submit system works well. What link list software is that?

I don't think I said anything about it, but I thought that was a real interesting experiment. Now that I look closer I think it's even more interesting.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Bill

Huh. That's definitely a curious effect.

http://www.filthyearl.com/ , right? I just checked it out, got a nice look. And the submit system works well. What link list software is that?

I don't think I said anything about it, but I thought that was a real interesting experiment. Now that I look closer I think it's even more interesting.

No. http://www.pervespace.com/ Earl was a defunct link list that I re-opened as an automatic list instead of having it sit there doing nothing. I'm still waiting to see if the traffic will build as a non-recip list. As you'll see on both sites, I'm currently experimenting with popunders. So far, the popunders have proven to be worthless at creating sales, and I'll probably use them strictly as a means of traffic trading between my own sites after I'm thoroughly convinced of their relative worthlessness.

The script is a custom mish-mosh.

[Bill]

Ahhh I see.

Just tried to sign in for a subbing account at pervespace, it wasn't intuitive as to how to do that. How does one sign up?

Clicking the webmaster link takes me to a login page with no extra info.

I searched back thru your recent posts, the first I came across was the thread about filthy earl, and it had a auto-submission system, so I concluded mistakenly lol.

I saw pervespace come up in the popunder, you know, I didn't immediately recognize it as a linklist, thought it was a kind of paysite, untill I saw that scrolling list of links.

---

A custom mishmosh eh? Howd you manage that?

You selling copies?

A search for linklistpro takes one to an aggregator page.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by JK

Maybe you can. If there were more people submitting decent sites, I probably would. I can count on one hand the number of decent submitters GPL has.

I'm all for anything that increases the amount of quality submits.

Well, that raises a related an equally important question, which is, do we need to create new models for what constitutes a quality submit these days?

Building freesites is a cost-benefit struggle. The more work you put in, the more variations you experiment with, the more experiments you try, the greater the risk of losing money on the freesite.

So there are market forces that pressure builders to create a certain "just average and not one second better" level of site.

And nowadays return on investment for freesites is so damn low that the market forces pushing for mediocrity seem even stronger.

BUT, we don't have a shared idea of how to make freesites better in a way that also allows them to make a profit.

And frankly builders have been intimidated by prick reviewers, so theres no emotional incentive to try to build anything new and prettier and juicier.

Another problem to solve - actually they are a perfect pair of problems, builders and listers need to evolve and experiment together.

[Nymph]

Bill, I own 3 LL myself, and review daily. If for some reason I will be away from the PC for a few days, I put a notice on the submit page, but usually catch up on all submits within a weeks time. Links are in my sig.

I also am doing the reviews for Licker4U's LL while he is in Afghanistan. I run those like I do my own sites.

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