What's the point of opening your own pay site?

[Star Man]

I mean with many sponsors paying out $25.00-$35.00 bucks a sign up,hosting the members section,and probably better marketing skills then most can complete with,I just don't see the benefit of attempting to do it all on your own. I mean if your banging these hoe's or producing your own content,I can see why it could work but other then that I don't see the point.What am I missing here?

[Toby]

When you do the math don't forget the rebills. $25- $35 per initial signup is chump change. Non-exclusive content is relatively cheap. If you have an existing network of traffic to drive to it, a well designed and maintained pay site can do very well.

[Licker4U]

After surfing for porn back in '97 I decided I wanted to shoot my own content and have my own pay site. I found a model release form on line and copied it. I found a rate sheet for different kinds of shoots and copied that. Then I found a newbie webmaster board and thank God I did. I would have sunk a LOT of money into a losing venture. They told me I should build free sites for a while and learn how to get and manipulate traffic and learn about porn before I jump into a full blown pay site. I'm still making free sites but my dream is still there. If Papa can do it, I can too I think a lot of models for porn come from exotic dancing (titty bars). Many of them are exhibitionists anyway and they're already used to people seeing their bodies so it's a logical step. My 26 yr. old son knows a lot of girls that dance locally so that's my connection with some of the girls. I just need to get a little money to invest and start shooting

[LD]

I've thought about it too...there's no way I could do the content (well maybe with a shit load of Viagra...), but it would be cool to partner with a studio or something, maybe be involved a little in the actual production side.

It seems like there's an awful lot of paysites out there, though. I'm still learning doing my little freesites, linklist blogs...but it sure sounds interesting.

[cd34]

Here's what I've observed over time.

There are webmasters that understand traffic generation, and can cultivate surfers that are willing to purchase and send them to a content site.

There are webmasters that know how to run a paysite, manage models, photoshoots, content generation, etc.

There are very few that can do both well.

If you were in a particular niche, had your own segment of traffic that you knew converted pretty well, had access to unique or exclusive content that fit that niche, you could make a single paysite and probably make it work. But, you're going to be splitting your efforts somewhat -- perhaps you spend too much time working the content/paysite side and neglect your traffic generation, or vice versa. Its a rather delicate balance, one that I've seen very few people manage to do well.

If you were going to do a paysite, you would want something that was unique enough that you could open a site with 12k pictures and 50 videos and work on retention while maintaining your other income stream. The other thing you probably don't want to get trapped in is a solo model site initially. You get x sets done, money doesn't come in quick enough, model decides to shop around or worse, is hard to get to show up to additional shoots. Stick with a niche so you're not tied to a particular model.

Its not impossible to make money with it, the barrier to entry is somewhat low if you pay the $750 visa/mc fee and use ccbill and it wouldn't take too many signups to cover that and generate some income. Your problems start with understanding how to convert more clickers into sales, what makes a member recur from the inside, etc.

Its tough, but, with the right niche, I think it is doable.

[HowlingWulf]

I used to think about opening my own paysites, and I came to this conclusion:

It's a lot of work.

Buying/producing content, managing affiliates/traffic, conversions, rebills, networking etc.... that's just not what I want.

I like working my own hours, taking off whenever I want (and I vacation/goof off a lot), and I make a good income as an affiliate with little overhead/responsibilities. That's what I like. I sometimes put in a full day but usually a few hours is enough for me.

Granted some people make lots of money starting their own sites/programs but I'm guessing most of them don't do so well and we never hear about most of them.

[JustRobert]

Very nice post cd34.
You answered questions that have been running thru my mind recently.

[Star Man]

Originally Posted by Toby

When you do the math don't forget the rebills. $25- $35 per initial signup is chump change. Non-exclusive content is relatively cheap. If you have an existing network of traffic to drive to it, a well designed and maintained pay site can do very well.

Yeah I bet rebills would kick ass...just gotta keep em happy.Also I hear that member section traffic is top notch.Over time,that could be a nice personal traffic source to have handy if it's really that good.The pay site thing is starting to make much more sense.

Licker4U and LusciousDelight ,you guys got me thinking with your posts.I have that porn star fantasy too (I'm sooo original).I always thought that the only way to do it is to just bang on anabolic's door and harass the hell out of them but with the internet,I guess anyone can reach MILF Hunter status over night if they knew how to work a PC and get adult traffic.Technically I could do it all myself but I don't know if I have the motivation.One things for sure,living out my cliche porn star fantasy would make turning 30 in a year seem like far less of a fucking death sentence!|goodnight

[Star Man]

Originally Posted by cd34

Here's what I've observed over time.

There are webmasters that understand traffic generation, and can cultivate surfers that are willing to purchase and send them to a content site.

There are webmasters that know how to run a paysite, manage models, photoshoots, content generation, etc.

There are very few that can do both well.

Yeah,good post cd34.Even if it's possible to juggle both,it would probably take a monumental amount of energy.

[annie_cash]

I once took photos to a friend of mine who is bi-sexual and now he says he want to start his own porn site. The thing is he's ugly for the average eye; have tons of scarces around the body and a severe speaking problem, so I dont know how many people would pay to join his site (though thinking twise he can be some kind of "exotic" guy) anyways, the day I have time and some $ to invert I will make him a site and see what happens.

[webpimp]

Great post cd34, I think that captures the amount of work required to be successful with a paysite. With so many great paysites already out there, it's a smart move to worry about generating traffic before building a paysite.

[webpimp]

Originally Posted by annie_cash

I once took photos to a friend of mine who is bi-sexual and now he says he want to start his own porn site. The thing is he's ugly for the average eye; have tons of scarces around the body and a severe speaking problem, so I dont know how many people would pay to join his site (though thinking twise he can be some kind of "exotic" guy) anyways, the day I have time and some $ to invert I will make him a site and see what happens.

In today's world of online porn, it often pays to have unique content. Although successful promotion might require some pretty degrading marketing tactics. But sounds like this guy has enough confidence to take it.

[Ms Naughty]

Degrading? Might be a nice way to drive away potential customers, actually. If the guy is bi he might want to do his own personality-driven site, one that respects the members and himself.

[SheepGuy]

I had 3 paysites in partnership with 2 friends back in the day when even non-exclusive content was expensive, my bills to keep them going were roughly 3K a month and I ran them for about 6 months.
Signups were plentiful back then but I got tired of the workload and I couldn't see any of them getting to the point where I'd get rich so I sold my share to my partners for 4 double Wild Turkeys at the local pub.
I haven't regretted it at all. Owning a paysite is a different kind of work than what most of us do now and once I was rid of them I started enjoying the biz again, and making more money.

[webpimp]

Originally Posted by grandmascrotum

Degrading? Might be a nice way to drive away potential customers, actually. If the guy is bi he might want to do his own personality-driven site, one that respects the members and himself.

That's probably a better idea, I don't really know that audience. Just doing a little armchair speculation, based on some of the sites I've seen out there.

[Licker4U]

Originally Posted by Star Man

One things for sure,living out my cliche porn star fantasy would make turning 30 in a year seem like far less of a fucking death sentence!|goodnight

I never had a fantasy of actually being in the shoots, I just wanted to take my own pictures of girls solo or with other guys. You know, have control of my content. PapaGMP has the best of both worlds, he takes the photos/movies and gets laid. i just like the idea of taking the pics....and a little on the side wouldn't hurt....

Now if Papa wants to schedule a shoot on the Gulf Coast of Alabama, I'm available.....

(might be a nice tax write off for a kewl vacation for him and some of his girls)

[papagmp]

OK - I guess it my turn to chime in.

Let's lay out the last week (at least as well as I can remember it)

Friday, 1 August, 02:45am - phone ringing off the hook - one of my models in in jail and her BF is calling wanting me to bail her out. Stayed up all night - finally got her out at 11:45am. I did get a FS built and did the dishes. Spent the afternoon making a new blog, submitting the FS I built and took 30 minutes to jerk off before I went to the club to see if Serenity was going to be there for the shoot Sunday. Returned from the club at 11:45 and took a nap.

Saturday, 2 August, woke up around 2:57am because the cat wanted in. checked my emails and had a customer that couldn't log in. re-sent him his password. Called my kids in Germany - chatted with a friend in Europe on ICQ. Still sending ICQ's at 6:19am. Pretty sure I jerked off somewhere in there. Fell asleep at the keyboard but managed to wake up in time to got shopping before OTB at 1pm (local). Jack came over at 3 and I trained her on making FS's. Went to the shop and set up the studio for Sunday's shoot. Got home at 9:45pm. Met with a new model at 10:00pm - signed contracts and took her to the club to meet a few of the girls. Got home at 2:20 am on Sunday morning.

Sunday, 3 August, ICQ shows me working on a new blog with a friend from 2:56am till 6:10am. My ex-wife's sister called just after lunch time and said she had something for me - dropped by 30 minutes later to give me her 2-week notice for the tipi shop. (Good news is I no longer have to worry about her quiting if/when I post the videos of her sister on the site). Went to the shop (studio) at 3pm and waited for Serenity - she didn't show........ Tried to call her and got no answer. Called the new model and she said she could come over - started shooting her around midnight. Finished the shoot and had the lights torn down and packed up by 3am.

Monday, 4 August, Woke up at 8:30 and loaded all the computers in the car and took them to the tipi shop. Promoted Kiri to Sales Manager and started training her on the new position. Spent all day Monday at the tipi shop working on computers and training. Left the shop around 5pm - went to the bank and post office and stopped by the club to see why the fuck Serenity hadn't shown up. Stayed at the club till the night shift girls came in and then came home. Slept for a few hours.

Tuesday, 5 August, middle of the fuckin night - wake to the phone ringing - Jack's roommate is in jail and needs me to post bail. Got out of bed and worked on a new FS and a picture set. Backed up the pictures of the new model. Slept a bit then got up at 9am - worked on the sites for an hour then went back to the tipi shop to help the new girl. Got home around 6pm. Re-rendered a bunch of videos that I had screwed up so I could get the new set posted to Real Colorado Girls - finished a freesite, ftp'd a new video to Glass Mannequin and loaded it in the database. Went to bed in the early am.

Wednesday, 6 August, Serenity text;s me and says she'll do a "bring me your sister: shoot tonight. I'm not rested but we need the content. I clean the house and do laundry between reviews and submits. No jerking off today cuz I need to dump a huge load in Serenity's eye as payback for standing me up on - fuck - when was she supposed to shoot???? Went to the office and signed payroll checks - went top pick Serenity up and she wasn't home - I did get to meet her boy friend - that was nice............... Went home and jerked off..... Got to bed around - fuck - I listened to Bob and Tom so it must have been 10am before I fell asleep.

Thursday, 7 August, Fuckin phone started ringing at noon. It was the tipi shop - customers and suppliers needed calls. Farted around for a bit - then crashed for a few more hours. Got up in time to be at the club to chew Serenity's ass - she wants to shoot Sunday - not sure if i will (BS - the little cunt is HOT and I really want to fuck her). Built a FS template for an affiliate cuz I was feeling in a creative mood - it was my first FS made to fit a 1024x768 screen. Edited a bunch of vid caps for banners and made a bunch of new banners for Real Colorado Girls. FTP's another video up to Real Colorado Girls. Balanced the checkbooks and crashed ------- couldn't sleep - got up and listened to Bob and Tom - went to sleep around 8am (sometime during the day I pulled my back while pulling weeds behind the tipi in a rain storm) Submitted a FS sometime during the day???

Friiday, 8 August. Got up to the phone at 10am. Jack was here editing video - she never wakes me up if I'm sleeping. Fucking back was killing me. Finished the FS template for my affiliate and took off to Denver to pick up a load of canvas. Had to be back by 7 so Jack could go to work. Tried to take a nap but remembered I had to clean the hottub. Drained and cleaned the hottub and it's filling as I type this - off to the club for a few minutes to have a beer. Hottub is filling and I need a good hot soak ----- after I jerk off!

See you all in the morning on OTB......

[Star Man]

Originally Posted by Licker4U

I never had a fantasy of actually being in the shoots, I just wanted to take my own pictures of girls solo or with other guys. You know, have control of my content. PapaGMP has the best of both worlds, he takes the photos/movies and gets laid. i just like the idea of taking the pics....and a little on the side wouldn't hurt....

Actually,directing a shoot and getting some on the side would be ideal (better sex too I bet) but I'd jump in a shoot in a second if I had the opportunity.'Fantasy' may have been the wrong choice of words (sounds sort of cheesy) but the desire is definitely there.What can I say? My little head OWNS me.

Thats pimp PapaGMP! Don't get me wrong,I'm sure your having fun but are there ever moments during a shoot where it's 'just another day at work' instead of getting laid? Do you ever work with a girl that your just not attracted to at all? Just curious.

[papagmp]

Originally Posted by Star Man

Actually,directing a shoot and getting some on the side would be ideal (better sex too I bet) but I'd jump in a shoot in a second if I had the opportunity.'Fantasy' may have been the wrong choice of words (sounds sort of cheesy) but the desire is definitely there.What can I say? My little head OWNS me.

Thats pimp PapaGMP! Don't get me wrong,I'm sure your having fun but are there ever moments during a shoot where it's 'just another day at work' instead of getting laid? Do you ever work with a girl that your just not attracted to at all? Just curious.

LOL - actually - there are only a few of the girls that I would fuck off-camera. And 3 or four that are just not my type and I would never fuck on my own time. And yes - I could get it hard for a cold piece of liver if it was for the "cause'.

And there have only been three of my models that I ever fucked off camera. Most have a life of their own - and it's because I respect that, that the girls are willing to work for/with PapaGMP.

[Licker4U]

Originally Posted by papagmp

OK - I guess it my turn to chime in.

Let's lay out the last week (at least as well as I can remember it)

Friday, 1 August, 02:45am - phone ringing off the hook - one of my models in in jail and her BF is calling wanting me to bail her out. Stayed up all night - finally got her out at 11:45am. I did get a FS built and did the dishes. Spent the afternoon making a new blog, submitting the FS I built and took 30 minutes to jerk off before I went to the club to see if Serenity was going to be there for the shoot Sunday. Returned from the club at 11:45 and took a nap.

Saturday, 2 August, woke up around 2:57am because the cat wanted in. checked my emails and had a customer that couldn't log in. re-sent him his password. Called my kids in Germany - chatted with a friend in Europe on ICQ. Still sending ICQ's at 6:19am. Pretty sure I jerked off somewhere in there. Fell asleep at the keyboard but managed to wake up in time to got shopping before OTB at 1pm (local). Jack came over at 3 and I trained her on making FS's. Went to the shop and set up the studio for Sunday's shoot. Got home at 9:45pm. Met with a new model at 10:00pm - signed contracts and took her to the club to meet a few of the girls. Got home at 2:20 am on Sunday morning.

Sunday, 3 August, ICQ shows me working on a new blog with a friend from 2:56am till 6:10am. My ex-wife's sister called just after lunch time and said she had something for me - dropped by 30 minutes later to give me her 2-week notice for the tipi shop. (Good news is I no longer have to worry about her quiting if/when I post the videos of her sister on the site). Went to the shop (studio) at 3pm and waited for Serenity - she didn't show........ Tried to call her and got no answer. Called the new model and she said she could come over - started shooting her around midnight. Finished the shoot and had the lights torn down and packed up by 3am.

Monday, 4 August, Woke up at 8:30 and loaded all the computers in the car and took them to the tipi shop. Promoted Kiri to Sales Manager and started training her on the new position. Spent all day Monday at the tipi shop working on computers and training. Left the shop around 5pm - went to the bank and post office and stopped by the club to see why the fuck Serenity hadn't shown up. Stayed at the club till the night shift girls came in and then came home. Slept for a few hours.

Tuesday, 5 August, middle of the fuckin night - wake to the phone ringing - Jack's roommate is in jail and needs me to post bail. Got out of bed and worked on a new FS and a picture set. Backed up the pictures of the new model. Slept a bit then got up at 9am - worked on the sites for an hour then went back to the tipi shop to help the new girl. Got home around 6pm. Re-rendered a bunch of videos that I had screwed up so I could get the new set posted to Real Colorado Girls - finished a freesite, ftp'd a new video to Glass Mannequin and loaded it in the database. Went to bed in the early am.

Wednesday, 6 August, Serenity text;s me and says she'll do a "bring me your sister: shoot tonight. I'm not rested but we need the content. I clean the house and do laundry between reviews and submits. No jerking off today cuz I need to dump a huge load in Serenity's eye as payback for standing me up on - fuck - when was she supposed to shoot???? Went to the office and signed payroll checks - went top pick Serenity up and she wasn't home - I did get to meet her boy friend - that was nice............... Went home and jerked off..... Got to bed around - fuck - I listened to Bob and Tom so it must have been 10am before I fell asleep.

Thursday, 7 August, Fuckin phone started ringing at noon. It was the tipi shop - customers and suppliers needed calls. Farted around for a bit - then crashed for a few more hours. Got up in time to be at the club to chew Serenity's ass - she wants to shoot Sunday - not sure if i will (BS - the little cunt is HOT and I really want to fuck her). Built a FS template for an affiliate cuz I was feeling in a creative mood - it was my first FS made to fit a 1024x768 screen. Edited a bunch of vid caps for banners and made a bunch of new banners for Real Colorado Girls. FTP's another video up to Real Colorado Girls. Balanced the checkbooks and crashed ------- couldn't sleep - got up and listened to Bob and Tom - went to sleep around 8am (sometime during the day I pulled my back while pulling weeds behind the tipi in a rain storm) Submitted a FS sometime during the day???

Friiday, 8 August. Got up to the phone at 10am. Jack was here editing video - she never wakes me up if I'm sleeping. Fucking back was killing me. Finished the FS template for my affiliate and took off to Denver to pick up a load of canvas. Had to be back by 7 so Jack could go to work. Tried to take a nap but remembered I had to clean the hottub. Drained and cleaned the hottub and it's filling as I type this - off to the club for a few minutes to have a beer. Hottub is filling and I need a good hot soak ----- after I jerk off!

See you all in the morning on OTB......

Ahhhh, the life of a pornographer......I could say almost the same things about being an electrical contractor. Same shit, different profession.

[faxxaff]

Originally Posted by Toby

When you do the math don't forget the rebills. $25- $35 per initial signup is chump change. Non-exclusive content is relatively cheap. If you have an existing network of traffic to drive to it, a well designed and maintained pay site can do very well.

Rebills from own traffic is the best income. I closed a paysite with around 300 members in February last year. After 18 months I still have around 60 members on recurring. I am thinking about reopening the site again in the near future once I install a content management script.

[Star Man]

Originally Posted by papagmp

LOL - actually - there are only a few of the girls that I would fuck off-camera. And 3 or four that are just not my type and I would never fuck on my own time. And yes - I could get it hard for a cold piece of liver if it was for the "cause'.

And there have only been three of my models that I ever fucked off camera. Most have a life of their own - and it's because I respect that, that the girls are willing to work for/with PapaGMP.

LOL ,at least your honest about it though dude.(Yes,you could have given a total mother fucker answer and would have gotten away with it )

[Pagan]

groan.. what a schedule! You can still perform tired??? My respect for you has deepened tremendously Papa. I promise I won't complain about my 80 weeks anymore.. ever. (40 hours a week on a day job, 10 hours commuting, 30 hours a week on my sites).

[papagmp]

Originally Posted by Licker4U

Ahhhh, the life of a pornographer......I could say almost the same things about being an electrical contractor. Same shit, different profession.

LOL - been there - done that....

But I enjoy sticking my cock in the sockets in this industry much more than when I wired housed for my brother-in-law |shocking|

[papagmp]

Originally Posted by Pagan

groan.. what a schedule! You can still perform tired??? My respect for you has deepened tremendously Papa. I promise I won't complain about my 80 weeks anymore.. ever. (40 hours a week on a day job, 10 hours commuting, 30 hours a week on my sites).

Hey - I'm not complaining - but it's a LOT of work.

Just got back from the club - now back to building FS's