Your Recip Link Code is GREEDY Mr. LL owner

[Opti]

I have seen lots of freesite webmasters posting threads about big recips and large amounts of category linking html in recent months.


I personally agree and also think these huge recips are BAD for us LL owners as well as the site builders.


We are supposed to be all producing sites to make money... the newest surfers are usually the easiest to convert... Why are we making webmasters put bigger more colourful recip panels ABOVE their site enter links.

Linksite recips are so big and so colourful now, they compete heavilly with a sites advertising... even against its own Enter Link.

I see no point in encouraging surfers to skip between linklists in preference to seeing the webmasters freesite and adverts.. particularly new surfers.... If we did nothing more than asked webmasters to put our recips Beneath the sites enter button I think LLs wouldn't lose a lot of value from the recip and the webmaster conversions should improve and bring more quality site builders into the cycle.

I would like to see the standard recip go back to simple text link or small button... in fact I wouldnt mind seeing us adopt an 88x33 button size as the most common standard.


Anyone else thinking like this? Or disagree strongly?

[DangerDave]

This ought to be interesting!

DD

[Opti]

Originally posted by DangerDave
This ought to be interesting!

DD

Careful the fence might have splinters! ;-)

[RawAlex]

Opti, text is way more powerful than buttons, which is one of the reasons most people are dropping graphical links and replacing them with text links. My current 150 X 90 seems to split the difference between most, and I haven't had more than one negative comment on it since I put it in.

Remember, free sites lose most of their "new site" traffic within a few days, but the SE bots keep visiting. A nice link with text is much more beneficial, I think.

I am NOT a fan of the return links with marquee and scrolling text on them. I think that is pushing the edge a bit. Some of them are okay, but some of them are VERY aggressive.

Alex

[Cleo]

I hate the niche ones that also have an image.

I also do not care for the scrolling ones and see them often break pages.

I don't really get any complaints about mine and I tried to keep them clean and easy to use.

[Opti]

Originally posted by RawAlex
Opti, text is way more powerful than buttons, which is one of the reasons most people are dropping graphical links and replacing them with text links. My current 150 X 90 seems to split the difference between most, and I haven't had more than one negative comment on it since I put it in.

Remember, free sites lose most of their "new site" traffic within a few days, but the SE bots keep visiting. A nice link with text is much more beneficial, I think.

I am NOT a fan of the return links with marquee and scrolling text on them. I think that is pushing the edge a bit. Some of them are okay, but some of them are VERY aggressive.

Alex

I wonder if we, as the LL, wouldnt get just as much value from the SE spider if they were moved below the enter button.

I do agree text is better.. and well used html is better than a graphic.. but I'm not sure it hasnt gone overboard is my issue. (btw, personally I think anything over 120x60 is too big, even in html)

Obviously everyone thinks their recips are reasonable... and as if freesite builders will whine to you about your own recip.. they post theads not mentioning names complaining about size in general.... and thats what I agree on.. I just think the overall panel many builders use has crept up in size out of all proportion...

and basically has gone past the point where bigger is more helpful... I think it is now costing you, me and our submitters unnecesary lost conversions, for zero extra benefit to anyone.

[MadMax]

When I was setting up my recips I did a lot of comparisons and research before I settled on something that worked for me without being too big. I have graphic recips that are used by some, and they're 120x60 buttons (though I frown on those for free sites).

My table/text recips are what I prefer, mostly because SEs like text and they give me the opportunity to control the anchor text of my recip links. I've got no problem with site builders adjusting colors, etc (as long as they still look decent), and I've got quite a few regular submitters that do just that with my recips as well as the recips of many other LL owners who post here. They end up getting 9 recips in a table that's a total size of maybe 500x300. Obviously if any LL owners were being an ogre about this practice these webmasters wouldn't still be doing it. Their pages end up looking nice and clean, and I've still got my anchor text in my recip links. Win-Win.

My free site recips are 184x67 (what I saw as splitting the difference, keeping them narrower than the 200 px that's become extremely common.

I can only speak for myself on this, but I want to generate some branding as well as getting the SE benefits of text recips. If they're so small that they end up either illegible or unnoticed then branding is right out the window.

Also, while no one free site gives me a lot of traffic back from my recips, they all send at least a few hits a month which really starts to add up as the database grows. Obviously I'm not snatching a ton of traffic with my recips, so in my mind they belong above the enter link and there's no harm done.

I'm with Cleo on the niche recips with images, they drive me freakin' mad. The only ones I'll even bother with when building free sites are the ones from PenisBot, and that's because the traffic I get is worth it.

As for sites that I list that aren't conventional free sites, like resource sites, dating sites, etc. I'm happy to accept a short text link as a recip. My big thing is that I want my link given the same treatment as anyone else's recips, and I have yet to hear a single complaint.

Could I be convinced to make my recips smaller if there was a trend in that direction? Sure.

Do I ever see my recips getting much smaller than 150x50? Not likely. The anchor text is just too valuable, and I still want them to be legible. In the end I'm the one drumming up the traffic to begin with, so I think the small amount of traffic and SE position I get from a recip is a small price to pay for a free site builder...and my position on that is the same as it was when I was building free sites but not running a link list.

Just my longwinded opinion.|rasta|

[Opti]

What prompted me to write this thread was a site Pat posted in another thread.

http://www.tijuanawomen.com/ll/Charl...Mexican-Whore/

He was asking if it would be accepted with the email collection box..

I took one look at it and thought.. Wow, that's a very good way to get 100% advdertising in a surfers face as they hit a warning and avoid them being bombarded with 20 or 30 possible choices of linked text and buttons taking them away from the site.


but look down the page.... it becomes like a fight for attention, the newbie surfer cant even know where he is supposed to click or what the webmaster wabts him to do from there... because of the sea of useless recip links... if a surfer found the site via an SE we dont want to drag them into a linklist!! That doesnt help us... webmaster conversions help us more than "stealing" a few of the freesite builders SE clicks...

I used that site as an example as it includes all the regualrs and all of the recips are "reasonable" on their own, although Emerald and Surfn probably push my personal limits. (sorry guys, nothing personal.. for point of discussion.. you guys are not an example of bad in any way)

http://www.tijuanawomen.com/ll/Charl...Mexican-Whore/

Pat has done a good job of negating our recips... but seriously... look at the Enter link!! Someone just try and tell me thats good selling to make him do that!?!

[Opti]

Originally posted by MadMax
My free site recips are 184x67 (what I saw as splitting the difference, keeping them narrower than the 200 px that's become extremely common.

I can only speak for myself on this, but I want to generate some branding as well as getting the SE benefits of text recips. If they're so small that they end up either illegible or unnoticed then branding is right out the window.

Thanks for caring enough to write so much Max.. and dont think I am jumping on you... but you hit what I see as the base problem on the head... Everyone thinks like you do... thats why we got here..

if lots of people made a 250 wide recip, would that make a 225 wide one then reasonable? Or better?

Tommy was the 1 person who got away with demanding a big recip for his own branding in the old days as far I recall.. and I havent seen more than a very small handfull of other linksites over the years good enough to justify the same imho..

Also, while no one free site gives me a lot of traffic back from my recips, they all send at least a few hits a month which really starts to add up as the database grows.

They will NEVER add up to a hill of beans... and you dont want to take SE clicks away from freesite webmasters.. it's your job to attract the SE traffic and send it to them.

If surfers click to freesites from linksites... and want to try another linksite, they will soon learn where to find then, at the bottom of the page... the last thing, the least important thing on the page... direct SE visitors should be seing the enter link... for ALL our benefit.

[Ramster]

Agreed, too big is no good.

[MrMaryLou]

Looking at this from a reviewers point of view its all in the balance

[Greenguy]

Next thing you know, webmasters will be complaining about all this free traffic they get from Link Lists

In all seriousness, if you don't like a particular Link Lists recips, don't submit - it really is that simple.

[Ann Omness]

We went with 120x60 for ours, which is very close to the same dimension as our buttons. We wanted webmasters to be able to swap out buttons for text links, if they wished, without changing the look of their page.

I've noticed that a lot of the recip links I see are much bigger than ours. Personally, I don't care, because the search engine spiders don't care. But I can't help wondering if the submitters are starting to worry that our recips will start competing for their traffic as those links become more and more prominent on their pages.

I think that the recips serve two purposes. One is to be spidered. The other is to help webmasters find places to submit to. Neither of those requires big visibility. Ultimately, I guess it's up to the submitters. If they think a particular LL's recips are too big, they won't use that LL anymore.

Gotta go, daughter's giving birth...

[Opti]

Originally posted by MrMaryLou
Looking at this from a reviewers point of view its all in the balance

That's an opinion I will find it hard to argue with

[Opti]

If a few established linksites (3+ years old) want to let webmasters place their recip link below the enter link (as an option) I would be happy to participate in a standard recip set submitting webmasters could use.

[GeorgeTH]

Just a few comments from a (not so regular) submitter:

I hate how much time I spend on finding, copying and inserting niche related recips. I know they make (some) sense from the LL owner's point of view, but without them I'd be doing three times as many submissions!

Originally posted by Opti
I would like to see the standard recip go back to simple text link or small button... in fact I wouldn't mind seeing us adopt an 88x33 button size as the most common standard.

Now, on a 'normal' screen size of 1024+ that'll look a little lost... And I understand well why a text link (as oposed to button) gives better results (se, etc.) in the long run.

Originally posted by MadMax
My free site recips are 184x67 (what I saw as splitting the difference, keeping them narrower than the 200 px that's become extremely common.

That sounds like a good size! Actually: the most common width of 200 pxs is messing up some of my tables, so anything below 186 pxs would be perfect from my point of view!
Do your math: a 750-760 wide table (for required resolution of 800x600) allows for 4 links of 186 pxs and some cell padding, but only for 3 of 200 pxs per row with way too much[!!] cellpadding...

My |2cents|

[koolkat]

I have tried to keep mine smaller, but I don't really object is a site owner needs to modify it a little so it fits in a table better. Of course if the want to make it bigger, I wouldn't mind that either!

[docholly]

My PERSONAL preference is as follows:

Cleo has my favorite set of recips because she has a <---start and an ---->end which a cut and paste queen like me *flashing eyes at tarty* is necessary so as not to break her beautiful coding.


i like the html coded tables that i can cut and paste. I have circumvented my aversion to 'catagory' recips as i have just made tables slapped those suckers in there and then put them on my index. Now that we have 30 templates made, all i have to do is swap out the specific recip. It's a pain but each time i think about it, i remember how happy i am to have the traffic from that particular site and for the few moments more it takes me, my surfer that absolutely must have Betty's Boobs.. is waiting to find her in the Foot catagory.


|rasta|

edit: My main issue is the decision to put the gallery in which catagory. so if you ever see me in what you think is wrong.. please drop me a note.. and tell me to remove my dingy head from my arse.

[zel]

Well, i will throw my 2c in.

I dont run a link list or anything.

From a free site builders POV:

HTML table recips are fine, i like them more than those picture buttons for a reason, that they have text - and that text gets spidered by SEs. Say, i have a lesbian site, and i have lesbian ad at the top, and then, there are a bunch of recips, which are leading to lesbian pages on LLs - that makes MY page more relevant to lesbians, and hence i have more chance of getting higher position for lesbian terms.
I put 8 recips per page, and that does not make me uncomfortable.

What do i hate about HTML table recips? Well, not them exactly, more like lazy webmasters (LL owners), who cant do their job right, and make a correct copy-paste html in their boxes. Since i make sites in different niches, i have to make a diferent recip tables, now and then, and WHY for heavens sake, after i paste the code into my page i have to hunt around for bugs? Is that too difficult to run a validator over it, so you know that everything is OK? Recently i have been emailing LLs and letting them know about the errors, hopefully, that will not be the issue after some time.

One more thing i hate - when niche is a niche too far. Ok, all of LLs have categoreis and such, but what is the reason for having a gazzillion of categories? I think main 50 or so are more than enough! I hate when i have to scroll few kilometres down the page just to find the right recip, and then few kilometres more on submit page.

Other than that - im fine with everything, unless it takes half of my page. The best recip i have ever seen (for TGP) - it was like 500x350 or something animated gif with a filesize over 300kb |ohhhhh|

[Mishi]

Originally posted by zel
What do i hate about HTML table recips? Well, not them exactly, more like lazy webmasters (LL owners), who cant do their job right, and make a correct copy-paste html in their boxes. Since i make sites in different niches, i have to make a diferent recip tables, now and then, and WHY for heavens sake, after i paste the code into my page i have to hunt around for bugs? Is that too difficult to run a validator over it, so you know that everything is OK? Recently i have been emailing LLs and letting them know about the errors, hopefully, that will not be the issue after some time.

I'm in 100% agreement with you here. Buggy recips were the bane of my existence for a while.

One more thing i hate - when niche is a niche too far. Ok, all of LLs have categoreis and such, but what is the reason for having a gazzillion of categories? I think main 50 or so are more than enough! I hate when i have to scroll few kilometres down the page just to find the right recip, and then few kilometres more on submit page.

Here I must disagree. The more microniche the better, as far as I'm concerned - that's targetted and motivated traffic. I don't have half the categories I'd like to, simply because I don't have enough sites to fill them all at this point. But I will...oh, yes, I will...BWAHAHAHA...

Sorry, it's a bit late...

[zel]

Oh well, but making a separate entry for "smoking Thailand midget men in stockings and high heels" is just a bit too over, IMHO

[GeorgeTH]

Originally posted by zel
What do i hate about HTML table recips? Well, not them exactly, more like lazy webmasters (LL owners), who cant do their job right, and make a correct copy-paste html in their boxes. Since i make sites in different niches, i have to make a diferent recip tables, now and then, and WHY for heavens sake, after i paste the code into my page i have to hunt around for bugs? Is that too difficult to run a validator over it, so you know that everything is OK? Recently i have been emailing LLs and letting them know about the errors, hopefully, that will not be the issue after some time.

I completely agree!
As a matter of fact: I even started a thread here about this: http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/...ighlight=recip

Originally posted by zel
One more thing i hate - when niche is a niche too far. Ok, all of LLs have categoreis and such, but what is the reason for having a gazzillion of categories? I think main 50 or so are more than enough! I hate when i have to scroll few kilometres down the page just to find the right recip, and then few kilometres more on submit page.

Another thing which bugs me is when my gallery fits into 5 niches at the time, and I can't make up my mind which one to chose - specially when I use a sponsor which is much broader than the niche itself...