Todays show got me thinking

[natalie]

Well yeah it got me thinking about a few things but the one I want to discuss is...

I have never really promoted indie sites or single girls sites much even. I really should give it a try and considering a bunch of the "walmart" sponsors (as Trixie called em) seem to not be forthcoming on conversions the last few weeks for me now is a good time.
I have looked at Trixie's sites before, maybe even signed up, but not done anything. Also Kats site. And I just had a look at Dochollys indie page too.

I would like to support these hard working women by giving them a try
Freesite traffic does do okay with these sites yes? I thought I heard a couple of comments today that made me unsure of that. Also there is the sponsor content issue, would I get freesites listed? I obviously cannot buy content for these.

I just have another new sponsor I am trying for the next week then will start on some of these but any feedback would be appreciated. Ie why do you promote them? Or why not?

[MadMax]

I know straight link list traffic does OK on those types of sites, so I'd have to imaging free sites would generate some decent sales. Emmanuelle has some really cool micro niche sites that nobody else has at www.naughtyniche.com , and I've actually had a rebiller on her Gimp Girls site for around half a year now

I was kinda thinking the same thing after the show, and I'd bet they'd be happy to make with some promo content (if they don't already offer it) so they can see what some free site traffic might or might not do for them

[swedguy]

I have tried it in the past, but:

1. I didn't do very well with it. Not the models fault though, I suck at selling amateur stuff.
2. They don't fit into my business model. The few I tried disappeared after they found god, changed boyfriend and realized that friends and relatives would be able to see her naked. I need stable sponsors.

[Toby]

Natalie, I promote indie sites almost exclusively. That is where I got my start in the business in 1997-98, building sites and doing the hosting for webcam girls.

I have no complaints about the conversions, and the rebills are very good. Aggregate total conversion ratio for all my sponsors was 1:584 for 2005 with primarily niche TGP traffic.

I submit very few free sites due to the sponsor content issue you mentioned. I could probably do more than I have been, but because I don't build free sites regularly I'm not terribly efficient at it. I'm sure you would do better. The key will be getting the content, as most indie sites include fewer than 20 pics per promo set. Trixie is very easy to work with, I'm sure she'd help you with whatever you needed.

[emmanuelle]

Originally Posted by MadMax

Emmanuelle has some really cool micro niche sites that nobody else has at www.naughtyniche.com , and I've actually had a rebiller on her Gimp Girls site for around half a year now

Thanks for the plug!

Personally I am a huge fan of Trixie & Tucker, but I think their hard work goes unnoticed in many cases.

[natalie]

Hmm well the number and size of pics are issues I have seen mentioned before and part of the reason I asked. Sets under 20 pics can be dealt with by making two different theme galleries. But the pics have to be over 600 on the long side. There will be a few linklists to take off my submit list due to watermarks and when they promo them too.
I guess the stability issue can be solved by promoting girls you know have been around a while.
Theres some interesting sites there Max, I have never looked at what Emmanuelle had before.
Thanks for the excellent feedback guys.

[docholly]

really the best way i've found to promote "indie" girls is to establish a relationship with them..

Quite a few are very hard working, doing it all on their sites but once you've established a relationship with them they are more likely to let you use content to promote them.

some, like trixie's empire, have great promo packs and are very helpful when it comes to writing text about themselves and their sites.

I promote almost exclusively (OK when i do) indie sites and have since like 2002..

I agree that they are very much underrated for the quality of porn that is turned out.

[Trixie]

Thanks for the interest and props, everyone. I have to admit, our affiliate program needs a lot of work right now to the point where my friend DocHolly has volunteered to build some free sites for us that other people can use too (at least, I *think* that's what she said ;-).

DeliaCD.com is the best bet of our network -- s/he converts VERY WELL with straight traffic and is doing better than my own girly-girl site right now even though my site has been around much longer than hers.

But yeah. If you sign up for our program I'll let you know (without spamming you every other day) as we add more promo content and better tours. For people with the energy (and ability to provide links to their sites/samples) I can set you up with access to our members area to snag what you need.

[RawAlex]

Today's radio show got me thinking too... thinking that Trixie has no clue who I am, and doesn't have a fucking idea what I am about. It makes me think that trixie has no clue that I have shot content, been married to a sex worker, produced content, attended swinger's conventions, or operated adult oriented BBSes when there was no fucking money in it at all.

I could go on and on, but safe to say that I think that Trixie jumped to huge (and injurious) conclusions without have facts, filtered my comments through that huge chip that I think is on Trixie's shoulder, and I think she then called me out as a result of the preconceived notions that I think trixie has about me rather than the facts and the truth.

Carry on. I have nothing more to add to this discussion.

Alex

[natalie]

[PR_Tom]

I think the show should have ended with a push towards more tolerance due to the inherent trouble in getting ones point and emotions across in board postings. Because honestly, I think thats where any rifts started, and I'm always one who would rather just nip off the bud than deal with everything that sprouts from it.

But on the topic, I wouldnt mind pushing some independant sites. I generally dont like to join a bazillion programs, so post some links please and maybe I can pick one and work on an ad or two.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

...But on the topic, I wouldnt mind pushing some independant sites. I generally dont like to join a bazillion programs, so post some links please and maybe I can pick one and work on an ad or two.

Here's a list of a few. http://www.bevyofbabes.com/amateur-a...e-programs.php

[Torn Rose]

Odd how someone can speak of someone else as if they knew them, but once the tables get turned...... karma is a bitch huh?

[Trixie]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Today's radio show got me thinking too... thinking that Trixie has no clue who I am, and doesn't have a fucking idea what I am about. It makes me think that trixie has no clue that I have shot content, been married to a sex worker, produced content, attended swinger's conventions, or operated adult oriented BBSes when there was no fucking money in it at all.

I could go on and on, but safe to say that you jumped to huge (and injurious) conclusions without have facts, filtered my comments through that huge chip on your shoulder, and then called me out for YOUR preconceived notions about me rather than the facts and the truth.

Carry on. I have nothing more to add to this discussion.

Alex

I have a clue who you are. You are the person who said people like FurryGirl and I are going to destroy your job and the entire adult industry because we make menstrual porn. I've read you and your ilk twist our words around repeatedly, so cry me a river if I didn't get your brilliant resume and sex history straight. You are the person who, after tons of discussion, STILL cannot grasp that Furrygirl's complaints about credit card processing are not about the registration fees or that they (and you) don't personally agree with what she thinks is "sexy", but is about blatant gender discrimination with completely inconsistent policies regarding men's bodily fluids vs. women's (and innocuous sex acts like solo masturbation during your period versus sites depicting frat boys urinating on women's faces, etc.), yet you misrepresent her in this thread with your weird whiny take on that matter.

You've perfectly illustrated what I said on the show: some of you guys can dish it out, but you can't take it. Whatever I said about you is not hugely injurious, sweetie. Buck up, big boy, or tell me what I said that was so patently false.

[natalie]

I guess I should have titled this thread something else...

[RawAlex]

I had a really big post, and deleted it.

Trixie, you are not worth the effort. You have such a huge chip on your shoulder that no matter what I say, you will find a way to distort it and fuck with it.

Nevermind.

Alex

[docholly]

Originally Posted by Trixie

Thanks for the interest and props, everyone. I have to admit, our affiliate program needs a lot of work right now to the point where my friend DocHolly has volunteered to build some free sites for us that other people can use too (at least, I *think* that's what she said ;-).

DeliaCD.com is the best bet of our network -- s/he converts VERY WELL with straight traffic and is doing better than my own girly-girl site right now even though my site has been around much longer than hers.

But yeah. If you sign up for our program I'll let you know (without spamming you every other day) as we add more promo content and better tours. For people with the energy (and ability to provide links to their sites/samples) I can set you up with access to our members area to snag what you need.

YEP!! and let me just say that DeliaCD ROCKS.. both as a site and $$ wise..

I had a really big post, and deleted it.

Trixie, you are not worth the effort. You have such a huge chip on your shoulder that no matter what I say, you will find a way to distort it and fuck with it.

Nevermind.

Alex

Without being called a "racist" *flashing eyes at Simon*.. it is my opinion to which I’m entitled, that statement is really a textbook case for the "pot calling the kettle black" and really, Alex, again in my opinion, you need to stop ASSuming that you are the only one who can twist, distort and fuck with someone else "truth"

Trixie has never engaged in this forum a pompous condescending gender biased attitude. She was put on the spot last night with no notice at all to try to coherently explain HER side of the world of independent webwhoring. She held her own.. and quite frankly under the circumstances was clear concise and to the point and EVEN conceded that the F/G issue was more the F/G delivery style of lecturing all of us rather than her points.

So, it is MY opinion, that before making statements that have no basis in merit (such as "You have such a huge chip on your shoulder that no matter what I say, you will find a way to distort it and fuck with it.") you need to really take a look at the MAN in the mirror.


--and note--I didn't just "run" in here to defend Trixie and then leave..i'm entrenched.

[RawAlex]

Doc, I don't have a manifesto, I don't have a "cause", and I don't come to the table with a pre-mapped out extreme position that I am trying to defend at all costs.

I have been called names, insulted, and refered to as "You've been nothing but a condescending misogynist prick" during this whole process.

I look in the mirror daily, and I don't have issues.

Alex

[emmanuelle]

Last night's show may have opened some eyes. It may have sealed some shut too in an 'I can't hear you' sort of manner.

When a man/woman/couple create their own website about themself, it is absolutely personal. The emotional investment is huge, much more than most can imagine. When it's your own ass, personality, heart & soul on that site, it is such a part of you and your psyche that one cannot help but protect it the way a mother might a newborn. It is a part of you.

Indie amateurs can honestly say that they have participated in every single aspect of this industry with their bare hands. They have more experience than 95% of the others in the business, only they usually do not have the funds or time to focus on any one of those areas the way that most do. It's hard to have a specialty when you have your hand in 18 different pots.

There is something very pure and organic about that part of our industry. Sadly, since 'real' amateurs tend to come across as emotional about the issues that are important to them, they are dismissed as tree hugging extremists and the message is lost in the delivery.

[docholly]

In my opinion:

Just like other groups that have tried to 'unite' (natives, AA, women, gay) over the years to fight their common enemy, so much other bullshite gets in the way.

Truthfully there are some very valid points made from everyone who contributed to that post, including you, Alex and F/G.

The enemy isn't us.. it's "THEM" but until we can find common ground among us, which is what I think that thread was trying to do, we will end up like the NOW vs Working Girl, AIM vs Tribal leadership, Black Panthers vs MLK, etc etc.

there is a threat to our ability to produce content and make money. We know who the enemy is .. we shouldn't make it be "US".