Court rulings in 2 well known cases today

Torn Rose · 2007-06-25, 12:27 PM

First the total fucking Bullshit.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/06/25/fr...ech/index.html

The Supreme Court ruled against a former high school student Monday in the "Bong Hit 4 Jesus" banner case -- a split decision that limits students' free speech rights.

The justices ruled 6-3 that Frederick's free speech rights were not violated by his suspension over what the majority's written opinion called a "sophomoric" banner.

Now the good news.

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=3303910&page=1

dry cleaning store that was sued for $54 million over an allegedly missing pair of pants will not have to pay anything to its disgruntled customer, a judge ruled Monday.

Instead, Roy Pearson, who sued over the missing trousers, may have to pay the store owners' legal fees.

The judge ruled Pearson must pay the defendants' court costs, which amount to about $1,000. Bartnoff said she would consider at a later date whether to make Pearson also pay the Chungs' attorneys fees, which make up the larger portion of their legal fees.

terry · 2007-06-25, 09:04 PM

Total fucking bullshit, I agree.

Missing pants... thats a good one!

jennym · 2007-06-25, 09:53 PM

Why is that total bullshit?? It's not like it was his own personal time. Had he been, I would scream bullshit too.
The article stated that

Quote:

Frederick was part of a school-sanctioned event, because students were let out of classes and accompanied by their teachers.

THAT is why the court ruled the way it did. I see no problem with it.

Torn Rose · 2007-06-25, 10:02 PM

That school sanctioned event was first a NON school sanctioned event since he was not on school property; it was then changed AFTER it happen so the principle could justify the suspension. He was across the street off school property, the sign hurt NO ONE, it just pissed of a principle.

So this opens the idea if a group of students get together at the mall parking lot and flips off the principle, they can now be suspended since the principle can now say there were 10 students there and I was there, so it was a school sanctioned event.

THAT’S is the bullshit of it.

virgohippy · 2007-06-25, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jennym

Why is that total bullshit?? It's not like it was his own personal time. Had he been, I would scream bullshit too.

If the sign read "Legalize Bong Hits for Jesus" would you feel the same?

Personally, I have a problem with making distinctions between harmless types of speech, especially from students. Students eventually grow up and inherit the world. Seems to me it's more dangerous to teach students to be complacent with government endorsed censorship and punishment for speech then to give them experience with being ignored/ridiculed/criticized/etc for making a public statement.

jennym · 2007-06-26, 01:42 AM

First of all, the kid said this

Quote:

he told reporters in March that he displayed the banner in a deliberate attempt to provoke a response from principal Morse, by whom he had been disciplined previously.

Be careful what you wish for.......

Secondly, I am not sure if it was across the street or not, as the article doesn't say. BUT, the Olympic torch relay was running right past the school. So, the kids were let out of class and accompanied by their teachers to watch the relay. How is that not a school sanctioned event.

Third, the kid was not suspended for holding up the sign. He was suspended because he did not put the sign away when the principle asked him to.

Free speech does not apply to EVERY statement in EVERY situation.

Jim · 2007-06-26, 09:07 AM

I think the whole thing is too unclear to make an informed opionion. It does depend on if it was a school event.

It does remind me of my youth. We had a kid in High School get suspended for wearing a tee shirt saying "Harley's the Best, The Hell with the Rest!" About 30 of us wore the same shirt the next day and had a good old fashioned sitout in the park.

Nothing happened and the kid stayed suspended. But, the principal told us that if we set one foot on school property, we would have been suspended. That was in the mid 70s and times have changed. Or, the principal was a moron...not sure which

Torn Rose · 2007-06-26, 10:03 AM

“In January 2002, students were released from Juneau-Douglas High School to watch the Olympic torch pass by. Frederick, who had not attended school that day, joined some friends on the sidewalk across from the high school, off of school grounds. Frederick and his friends waited for the television cameras so they could unfurl a banner reading "Bong Hits 4 Jesus." (Frederick was quoted as saying he'd first seen the phrase on a snowboard sticker.[2]) When they displayed the banner, then-principal Deborah Morse ran across the street and seized it.”

Ok, so when someone is RELEASED from school for anything, is it now a school sanctioned event? Did they say “if we release you, you MUST attend this?” Nope.

Did he get any trouble for skipping school that day, but still showed up for the event? Nope.

So isn’t that playing hooky and don’t students get into trouble for playing hooky?

She gave the students the day off so *IF THEY WANTED TO GO* they could, he didn’t even bother going to school that day, but showed up ACROSS THE STREET and pissed off the principle who then suspended him for 5 days, until he refused to give up the names for the others so she made it 10 days. Yeah, that is real fair.

“Morse initially suspended Joseph Frederick for five days for violating the school district's anti-drug policy, but increased the suspension to 10 days after he refused to give the names of his fellow participants and quoted Thomas Jefferson on free speech”

The local news started to pick up on it and they realized there will be a lawsuit so THEN she said, “Oh, this was a school sanctioned event” and of course the kid’s lawyers asked the obvious question and asked since when? That is where the biggest argument happens, over was it a school sanctioned event or not.

This is not something I just heard about yesterday, this is something I have kept up with for over 2 years when it first broke the national news, the principles story has changed when she had to justify her actions, the 9th circuit did agree with the principle that it was a school sanctioned event, but also said she did violate his free speech, so Ken Starr was brought in and it was taken to the Supreme Court.

And I still stand by my original post that yes, I think this is total bullshit.

jennym · 2007-06-26, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torn

And I still stand by my original post that yes, I think this is total bullshit.

Had your original post stated any of those things as fact, I would have agreed with you. If it happened the way it was described in the first link, it was a perfectly acceptable punishment.

If it happened exactly as you described it in your own words, then I would call bullshit with you.

porndragon · 2007-06-26, 12:18 PM

The shirt thing is happening here to apparently it's ok in the local school for girls to wear belly shirts and tanks and not the boys so alot of boys going to school with girls clothing on to protest. We did one in grade school when they canceled the valentines day dance got 150 students to gather in the cafateria and had our dance anyway until the principal came in and shouted anyone not gone in 5 mins is expelled. Only 5 people stayed shouting hell no we won't go and got a long suspension.

Torn Rose · 2007-06-26, 12:43 PM

Here is something else to think about and I am using Bush as an example.

A Principle decides to let the students out of school early so if they want to go see Bush drive by they can, the principle goes and is pro GOP and a student is anti GOP, they are 10 miles from the school standing on the side of a public road, the student holds up an anti Bush sign.

What happens?

Bobc01 · 2007-06-26, 01:41 PM

$54 million for a pair of trousers?

How can anyone justify sueing for that, what a fuckhead.

jennym · 2007-06-26, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torn

Here is something else to think about and I am using Bush as an example.

A Principle decides to let the students out of school early so if they want to go see Bush drive by they can, the principle goes and is pro GOP and a student is anti GOP, they are 10 miles from the school standing on the side of a public road, the student holds up an anti Bush sign.

What happens?

My opinion would still be the same. If they are let out of class for the purpose of standing outside to watch, and they are accompanied outside by their teachers, the school has the right to make sure they follow school rules.

If they are just dismissed early on that day and are free to do as they please, then they are no longer under the school's authority and should be able to do as they wish.

2007-06-25, 12:27 PM	#1
Torn Rose "Faith is believing what you know ain't so." ~ Mark Twain Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 4,806	Court rulings in 2 well known cases today First the total fucking Bullshit. http://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/06/25/fr...ech/index.html The Supreme Court ruled against a former high school student Monday in the "Bong Hit 4 Jesus" banner case -- a split decision that limits students' free speech rights. The justices ruled 6-3 that Frederick's free speech rights were not violated by his suspension over what the majority's written opinion called a "sophomoric" banner. Now the good news. http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=3303910&page=1 dry cleaning store that was sued for $54 million over an allegedly missing pair of pants will not have to pay anything to its disgruntled customer, a judge ruled Monday. Instead, Roy Pearson, who sued over the missing trousers, may have to pay the store owners' legal fees. The judge ruled Pearson must pay the defendants' court costs, which amount to about $1,000. Bartnoff said she would consider at a later date whether to make Pearson also pay the Chungs' attorneys fees, which make up the larger portion of their legal fees.

2007-06-25, 09:04 PM	#2
terry You can now put whatever you want in this space :) Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Montreal Posts: 5,883	Total fucking bullshit, I agree. Missing pants... thats a good one! __________________ Stop That 9 To 5 Go Green Grocery Store

2007-06-26, 12:18 PM	#10
porndragon Trying is the first step towards failure Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 129	The shirt thing is happening here to apparently it's ok in the local school for girls to wear belly shirts and tanks and not the boys so alot of boys going to school with girls clothing on to protest. We did one in grade school when they canceled the valentines day dance got 150 students to gather in the cafateria and had our dance anyway until the principal came in and shouted anyone not gone in 5 mins is expelled. Only 5 people stayed shouting hell no we won't go and got a long suspension. __________________ Dave's Porn Links

2007-06-25, 10:02 PM	#4
Torn Rose "Faith is believing what you know ain't so." ~ Mark Twain Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 4,806	That school sanctioned event was first a NON school sanctioned event since he was not on school property; it was then changed AFTER it happen so the principle could justify the suspension. He was across the street off school property, the sign hurt NO ONE, it just pissed of a principle. So this opens the idea if a group of students get together at the mall parking lot and flips off the principle, they can now be suspended since the principle can now say there were 10 students there and I was there, so it was a school sanctioned event. THAT’S is the bullshit of it.

2007-06-26, 09:07 AM	#7
Jim Banned Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Mohawk, New York Posts: 19,477	I think the whole thing is too unclear to make an informed opionion. It does depend on if it was a school event. It does remind me of my youth. We had a kid in High School get suspended for wearing a tee shirt saying "Harley's the Best, The Hell with the Rest!" About 30 of us wore the same shirt the next day and had a good old fashioned sitout in the park. Nothing happened and the kid stayed suspended. But, the principal told us that if we set one foot on school property, we would have been suspended. That was in the mid 70s and times have changed. Or, the principal was a moron...not sure which

2007-06-26, 10:03 AM	#8
Torn Rose "Faith is believing what you know ain't so." ~ Mark Twain Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 4,806	“In January 2002, students were released from Juneau-Douglas High School to watch the Olympic torch pass by. Frederick, who had not attended school that day, joined some friends on the sidewalk across from the high school, off of school grounds. Frederick and his friends waited for the television cameras so they could unfurl a banner reading "Bong Hits 4 Jesus." (Frederick was quoted as saying he'd first seen the phrase on a snowboard sticker.[2]) When they displayed the banner, then-principal Deborah Morse ran across the street and seized it.” Ok, so when someone is RELEASED from school for anything, is it now a school sanctioned event? Did they say “if we release you, you MUST attend this?” Nope. Did he get any trouble for skipping school that day, but still showed up for the event? Nope. So isn’t that playing hooky and don’t students get into trouble for playing hooky? She gave the students the day off so IF THEY WANTED TO GO they could, he didn’t even bother going to school that day, but showed up ACROSS THE STREET and pissed off the principle who then suspended him for 5 days, until he refused to give up the names for the others so she made it 10 days. Yeah, that is real fair. “Morse initially suspended Joseph Frederick for five days for violating the school district's anti-drug policy, but increased the suspension to 10 days after he refused to give the names of his fellow participants and quoted Thomas Jefferson on free speech” The local news started to pick up on it and they realized there will be a lawsuit so THEN she said, “Oh, this was a school sanctioned event” and of course the kid’s lawyers asked the obvious question and asked since when? That is where the biggest argument happens, over was it a school sanctioned event or not. This is not something I just heard about yesterday, this is something I have kept up with for over 2 years when it first broke the national news, the principles story has changed when she had to justify her actions, the 9th circuit did agree with the principle that it was a school sanctioned event, but also said she did violate his free speech, so Ken Starr was brought in and it was taken to the Supreme Court. And I still stand by my original post that yes, I think this is total bullshit.

2007-06-26, 12:43 PM	#11
Torn Rose "Faith is believing what you know ain't so." ~ Mark Twain Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 4,806	Here is something else to think about and I am using Bush as an example. A Principle decides to let the students out of school early so if they want to go see Bush drive by they can, the principle goes and is pro GOP and a student is anti GOP, they are 10 miles from the school standing on the side of a public road, the student holds up an anti Bush sign. What happens?

2007-06-26, 01:41 PM	#12
Bobc01 Banned Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Hell Posts: 817	$54 million for a pair of trousers? How can anyone justify sueing for that, what a fuckhead.