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-   -   Bush can't have it both ways - 2257 (http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?t=31084)

SirMoby 2006-05-01 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by virgohippy
I've always thought it was cheap laber which has allowed us to remain competitive with countries like Mexico and China. |huh

ROFL |jester|

virgohippy 2006-05-01 03:21 PM

Okay, that did sound silly the way I phrased it. |crazy|

docholly 2006-05-01 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemmy
You could put up a high voltage elctric fence from the Pacific to the Gulf of Mexico and post armed guards with rabid pitbulls and a license to kill every 100 yards, but as long as someone is willing to hire illegal aliens they would still find a way to get in.

If you want to stop illegal immigration go after the employers who are hiring them, make it hurt *really* bad financially. But be prepared to pay more for a lot of products and services that are currently provided by undocumented people working for peanuts. You can't have it both ways.

I guess we don't need a 'fence' from the pacific to the atlantic across our northern border cuz no self respecting canadian would sneak across to work in the us then run back over and live in Canada?? Or would attend a tradeshow where business is transacted without having a b2 visa that allows them to 'work' while in the US?? Which makes it truly against "mexicans" eh?


I remember another 'fence" that was built once .. finally came down in 1989. of course that was in Berlin and it was to stop all the eastern euros from flooding into Berlin and thus western freedom. But that's another discourse indeed.

in my opinion, perhaps the INS, now part of 'homeland' security.. should increase the number of worker bees in their clerical department so those visas can be processed quicker. Waiting 10, 11, 12+ years for one, as one of my kids had to do, should be criminal. The rest of them i brought, personally, illegally into this country and would do it again if i had to.

Quote:

Not sure I understand you here Alex. Illegals can't vote. Even legal ones like my wife. Only citizens can vote, my wife is a perminate resident which means she only has the rights of a US citizen but still can't vote. Greencard holders are not citizens, it's only a card for work purposes but not voting unless that has changed
.

Never in my life, as i've moved to at least 5 states since becoming 18, have i ever been asked to prove i was a US citizen when registering to vote. When i moved back to vegas in 2004, just outside my local grocery they had a voter registration booth.. not only did i register with no proof, so did my son's dad, who has been a greencard holder since 1988.

My final opinion, cuz you know i have one:

Just because the statue of liberty stands in NY harbor doesn't mean the words carved at her feet do not apply to Juarez, Victoria, Key West or Niagara Falls.

Quote:

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,

With conquering limbs astride from land to land;

Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand

A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame

Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name

Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand

Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command

The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she

With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"



kenny 2006-05-03 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirMoby
As we've seen in Iraq even with $billions of dollars you can't secure a border that large. The only option is to remove the desire for illegals to cross the border and that can only be done by improving the conditions in MX and making it difficult to earn dollars here.

It's interesting that the Tomato Industry has thrived in California after they complained that they needed cheap labor. When the price of labor went up they used technology to cut costs and now production has increased drastically. I guess they just needed some fucking intelligence to solve the expensive labor issue.

Every time I hear we can't get American workers to do X at any price. It always seems that people are paying less then $11 an hour to do X. $11 an hour is still at the poverty level in the USA. It's safer to care for a family while on Medicare in the USA then it is to do it while in poverty.

Remember, Medicare includes health care for your children. Poverty does not so unless an American worker can make at least $12.50 an hour they're better off not working.

If that makes you sick then do the math, check the Medicare laws in Florida and then get back to us.


You're exactly right.

Greedy people who own/run companies are the only ones who benifit from illegals.

That and the real lazy people who pay illegals to clean their houses.

tamara 2006-05-05 10:43 AM

My grandparents were immigrants, Russian Jews. Americans HATED them when they came here, and they came legally. Shucks, Americans also hated Irish immigrants, Italian immigrants, you name the immigrant and we have hated them. Right now it is the Mexicans turn.

Every single time there's been an influx of immigrants, everyone's complained about these immigrants "stealing" jobs. Hmm. You know, in this society of entitlement (which we do have) most Americans, even POOR Americans, do not want to clean toilets and do manual labor or trash pickup or other dirty work. And historically it is the most recent crop of immigrants which has this type of work. So we free some people up to find better skillsets to move beyond cleaning toilets; is that a bad thing?

I don't know why I see this when no one else does, maybe it's the liberal hippy in me. But to me, someone who is willing to DIE to come to a country where they are going to be hated, exploited, work for low income, have no healthcare, and be in danger of deportment all the time, all for the hope and promise and whisper of a better life for their children... well, to me that is the American dream. I cannot begrudge it to someone because of the color of their skin. These people aren't the ones coming in and getting on welfare, that's our own citizens doing that! These people come in and WORK.

I dunno why we don't make it easier for them to do so legally. But certainly building a wall around America the Melting Pot is not the answer... at least not in my vision of what this country is, and means to the world.

As for Bush having anything both ways, didn't you see Laura Bush's interview the other day? First she said she doesn't mind the national anthem being sung in Spanish. The interviewer said, "So you disagree with your husband about this?" She said "No, it should only be sung in English." With a straight face. These people are bald-faced liars, so they can have anything they want however they want it. At least, for now.

Surfn 2006-05-05 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamara
My grandparents were immigrants, Russian Jews. Americans HATED them when they came here, and they came legally. Shucks, Americans also hated Irish immigrants, Italian immigrants, you name the immigrant and we have hated them. Right now it is the Mexicans turn.

Every single time there's been an influx of immigrants, everyone's complained about these immigrants "stealing" jobs. Hmm. You know, in this society of entitlement (which we do have) most Americans, even POOR Americans, do not want to clean toilets and do manual labor or trash pickup or other dirty work. And historically it is the most recent crop of immigrants which has this type of work. So we free some people up to find better skillsets to move beyond cleaning toilets; is that a bad thing?

I don't know why I see this when no one else does, maybe it's the liberal hippy in me. But to me, someone who is willing to DIE to come to a country where they are going to be hated, exploited, work for low income, have no healthcare, and be in danger of deportment all the time, all for the hope and promise and whisper of a better life for their children... well, to me that is the American dream. I cannot begrudge it to someone because of the color of their skin. These people aren't the ones coming in and getting on welfare, that's our own citizens doing that! These people come in and WORK.

I dunno why we don't make it easier for them to do so legally. But certainly building a wall around America the Melting Pot is not the answer... at least not in my vision of what this country is, and means to the world.

As for Bush having anything both ways, didn't you see Laura Bush's interview the other day? First she said she doesn't mind the national anthem being sung in Spanish. The interviewer said, "So you disagree with your husband about this?" She said "No, it should only be sung in English." With a straight face. These people are bald-faced liars, so they can have anything they want however they want it. At least, for now.

I have to respectfully disagree here. Historically illegal immigrants have been a bigger financial drain than asset.

SirMoby 2006-05-05 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamara
My grandparents were immigrants, Russian Jews. Americans HATED them when they came here, and they came legally. Shucks, Americans also hated Irish immigrants, Italian immigrants, you name the immigrant and we have hated them. Right now it is the Mexicans turn.

Every single time there's been an influx of immigrants, everyone's complained about these immigrants "stealing" jobs. Hmm. You know, in this society of entitlement (which we do have) most Americans, even POOR Americans, do not want to clean toilets and do manual labor or trash pickup or other dirty work. And historically it is the most recent crop of immigrants which has this type of work. So we free some people up to find better skillsets to move beyond cleaning toilets; is that a bad thing?

I don't know why I see this when no one else does, maybe it's the liberal hippy in me. But to me, someone who is willing to DIE to come to a country where they are going to be hated, exploited, work for low income, have no healthcare, and be in danger of deportment all the time, all for the hope and promise and whisper of a better life for their children... well, to me that is the American dream. I cannot begrudge it to someone because of the color of their skin. These people aren't the ones coming in and getting on welfare, that's our own citizens doing that! These people come in and WORK.

I dunno why we don't make it easier for them to do so legally. But certainly building a wall around America the Melting Pot is not the answer... at least not in my vision of what this country is, and means to the world.

As for Bush having anything both ways, didn't you see Laura Bush's interview the other day? First she said she doesn't mind the national anthem being sung in Spanish. The interviewer said, "So you disagree with your husband about this?" She said "No, it should only be sung in English." With a straight face. These people are bald-faced liars, so they can have anything they want however they want it. At least, for now.

Tamara,

I'm all for allowing immagrents into the USA since it brings in a new influx of ideas, innovation, strong work ethic and talent. The reason the USA was always a leader in technology and business was because of the injection of new life into our society.

My main concern is having 12,000,000 illegal and undocumented people running around. That's 5% to 10% of our work force that is probably not paying taxes and will probably end up getting benifiets at some point. Most employers are paying the illegal workers under the table so they're bypassing financial responsilities as well.

There's a big difference between those that enter a country legally and those that do not. I'm sure that you parents and my ancentors entered this country legally but what does that have to do with the 12,000,000 that did not?

tigermom 2006-05-10 06:17 AM

I think Tamara makes a great point about how some of the hatred against those illegal immigrants is just bad old xenophobia. Ideas about man eating dogs and such... These are people who are taking huge risks for themselves to hopefully provide a better future for their children. It's the most natural thing in the world and I applaud them for it.

Sir Moby, of course legally would be a whole lot better for all concerned. But can they get into the country legally? As a poor Mexican living on the other side of the border, how can you get into America legally? Maybe think about helping them make that transition into legal immigrants instead of coming up with crazy ideas of how to throw more hurdles in their way. Not everything can be solved using brute force.

SirMoby 2006-05-10 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigermom
I think Tamara makes a great point about how some of the hatred against those illegal immigrants is just bad old xenophobia. Ideas about man eating dogs and such... These are people who are taking huge risks for themselves to hopefully provide a better future for their children. It's the most natural thing in the world and I applaud them for it.

Sir Moby, of course legally would be a whole lot better for all concerned. But can they get into the country legally? As a poor Mexican living on the other side of the border, how can you get into America legally? Maybe think about helping them make that transition into legal immigrants instead of coming up with crazy ideas of how to throw more hurdles in their way. Not everything can be solved using brute force.

That is precisely the question that needed to be addressed years ago. Since our economy needs the injection of cheap hard working employees then how can we get them into the country legally? Most of them have to pay someone to help them get across the border so why is that money going to MX criminals when it could be going to entry fees and allow us to document and tax the workers/employers?

I'm not against having the Mexican workers here. I am against having them here illegally and having employers higher them illegally.

Find a way to make it legal and stop this BS about needing to have an illegal, undocumented and untaxed work force. That is simply not true but it is cheap for those that pay off our politicians.

RawAlex 2006-05-10 01:46 PM

The current "ever republican president we have an amnesty" thing is just bullshit. It means that the people who worked hardest to get around the law are the ones allowed to stay, and the ones who applied for visas and stayed at home won't get in.

Too many criminals, gang members, and drug dealers are sneaking in, and then getting citizenship because the republicans are too soft to do something about the problem and too concerned with trying to buy some hispanic votes at the next poll.

It stinks like month old fish.

Alex

swingingina 2006-05-19 12:54 AM

bush is a damn joke...... he makes no sense on any issue at all


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