And that's a fine example as to why sales are down and will most likely star down until that kind of crap stops.

Ok, curious...how exactly are you making any money at all with that kind of approach? Sure you list dating and cam sites, but wouldn't pushing good sponsors FLV's and all that increase your odds of actually making any kind of money at all, instead of random small dollar signups from whichever cam/dating sites?

After all, any legit sponsor is going to have better quality promo material to use, not some fuzzed and shit homemade porn video being uploaded by the user, or taken from elsewhere. The surfer will eventually want better quality, not 7 minutes of out of focus amateur stuff. They get off on low quality now, but sooner or later they'll want better.

Actually, a lot of people enjoy low quality true amateur stuff - and will never want better. Tube sites are often the best places to find authentic amateur porn. I can't stand produced porn with the same old pornstars. They all deepthroat/gag, take 14 inches of cock up their asshole, and squirt. How droll. Guys like me don't want to watch the chicks we can't have doing things we aren't interested in doing. We want to watch "normal" looking girlfriends/wives having mediocre sex at home or in the family car.

Fuck, I use pics I bought 10-12 years ago, and rarely use paysite sponsors.
My goal is not to get the surfer to jack off to the stuff I give away, but to get them to go to a cam girl, or a recurring AVS site, or, lately, a dating service.
If I build a gallery or a free site I really don't give a fuck if the surfer is impressed by the quality, I want them to click for something better, if they jerk off for free, I've lost them.

Do you think people are watching fucking Citizen Kane? They are just trying to rub one out. I am sure that SD video is fine for the thieving cheap bastards out there!

Exactly, except there are a lot of big tubes that are completely legit, or slowly becoming legit, so they aren't all thieving bastards.

Quite frankly, anyone who doesn't understand tubes at this point, hasn't taken the time to enjoy them. From the average surfer's point-of-view, they're really quite wonderful. There are a couple that I absolutely adore.

I said it months ago, and I'll say it again. Competing with the tubes is about competing with them in the search engines. If you aren't working your SE game and purchasing, yes PURCHASING, a ton of inbound keyword links, then you aren't competing. Some of the early tubes may have been built by thieves, but they were smart thieves. They redesigned the playing field. Play it their way or pass the ball to someone who will.

NOT !

Tgps were teazers with low quality stuff versus full lenght HD now.

Why buy ? Now you tell me ! People will settle for less as it's free.

Let's say the government gives away brand new cheap cars. Selling at 8k each. Guess what kind of cars you'll see everywhere ? Of course, guys willing to drive their Mercedez and Ferrari's will continue to do so but the majority of people will drive the damn cheap car as it's FREE !

someone said it well earlier. water is free out of a tap yet bottles of water are one of the best selling beverages at say a gas station...etc.....

paying customers are that way because of many reasons other than cost vs. free. things like security etc...come into play.

-abatis

Besides us, there are plenty of legit, legal, authorized content providers out there where you can get content too.

We run a tube and we submit to them. We do get paysite sales and even if they don't stay on there is enough traffic from it that our cam sales, etc. go up accordingly too. Our submits do great or terrible on any given day - but the average conversion is still decent and I can certainly say that the profit is there for us to continue submitting.

I am not being coy about providing specific ratios. I just learned long ago not to believe anyone else when they brag about their conversions and to not expect anyone to believe me when I say how well we do.

No offense, but I don't think that is a great example so let me suggest one that I think works better. Explain why people pay for cable channels when they get tons of free programming on CBS, NBC, ABC?

Even when they can see the same show that once cost money on cable...

And those cable companies buy ads on free tv...

For us, the people that join our site realize there is more to it than just tons of videos. For many other paysites, it looks great on the outside but when the customer gets inside they realize that they have already seen it all for free and there is nothing else compelling to pay for. So even though you may see the same movie on HBO that eventually plays on ABC, you were able to see it sooner and uncut with no intrusive commercials on HBO first and that is a premium that many will pay for in spite of a "free" option.