I learned early on in this business that if you could do something to someone else or to yourself, someone, somewhere would be into it. For me, I could never do anything that would show my wife any degradation. But the libidinousness of some people is just crazy. I mean, there are so many fetishes that I just don't get. But, to each, their own.

i dont mind people have their fetishes but punhing a woman.... believe me seeing (or how the fuck you write that) a woman getting punch full on the face by a guy gives me so much anger, i have seen it to much in real live, not myself, i dare one guy to punch me in the face and its the last thing he do.....realy thats no big talk, i realy hate guys who slap woman like that, i cant see the comparision with lust or bdsm or love .......because i have seen woman kicked their ass by guys for real...the lowest thing there is...and yes some woman lett their guys do it because they love him.....i cant understand that,now you all may think what you like but i cant make money out of that, i have my limits.....every nut have their fetish, but i have my limits too, and thats just a personal view

I shouldn't add anything more to this thread but I just feel the need to say a couple of things.

I'm sure we all subscribe to the "if it's consensual and legal, it's fine" idea. And yes, there are plenty of very strange people out there.

That aside, what I do find disturbing about things like the donkey punch and the other so-called sex acts that I found on that list is that mostly they seem to have been made up.

Someone has sat down and thought "what's the most disgusting degrading thing I could do during sex?" and then other people have repeated it as fact - including the writers at CSI. And even if someone, somewhere has done it, I don't think it's common enough to deserve a name. But now, lots of people suddenly know about it, people think it happens all the time... what's the net result of that? Do we start to think we're the only "normal" ones out there?

Add to that the fact that the description of these sorts of things are primarily about being cruel to, or hurting, the female sex partner *without her consent* and I get uncomfortable when people say "oh well, to each their own".

Would any woman in her right mind actually want to be punched in the back of the head so hard that it knocks her out during sex? I mean, having talked to a chick who was into rough sex, I don't think even she would want to go that far. And if she did... well, as liberal and accepting as I am, I would have to say that she's got some kind of problem if that kind of extremity is necessary for her to enjoy sex. And yes, this statement is very judgemental of me. (Although I should also point out that, according to the definition, punching the woman is designed purely for the man's pleasure, not the woman's)

Maybe I am being a Dworkin about this, but it just seems awful there's meant to be an undertone of humor about it too - that the ideas behind it are designed to make everyday people feel sick, but they're supposed to laugh at it too. My previous post about "balancing the thread" was along those lines, but now I've given it more thought, I shouldn't have posted what I did.

This is just my own moral stance, but I've never wanted to promote anything that sought to humiliate women or demean sex because I dislike the idea that something as beautiful as sex would be "besmirched" by violence or hatred. That's the underlying ehtics of how I operate my business.

Something else that made me concerned. I know people who let their kids watch CSI. I was wondering how they got by explaining the "semen sample" part of it. Now they've got fetishes and donkey punches on the list as well.

I only do sheep boxing


|shocking|

sheep teaste good did you know that:D

OK, I just posted on another thread about tolerance, and that everyone is entitled to their views and it is wrong to object to people's posts. That is about to bite me in the bum because I am about to break that rule.

Reading through this thread it is a long time since I have seen so much macco sexist bullshit. Women are people too. Women are adults who are entitled to make their own decisions about their own life, without some interfering (although no doubt well meaning) bigoted ass telling exactly what they can do, and what they are allowed to like.

Comments like "Would any woman in her right mind actually want to be punched in the back of the head so hard that it knocks her out during sex?" (sorry to pick on you grandmascrotum, you are just the most recent person to post a comment like this, so the first one I came to when looking for a quote to illustrate my point), belong in the Ark, along with "A women's place is in the kitchen" and "Housework is woman's work". Some women do enjoy masochism, it is not just a man thing. They do not need someone who feels they are superior to them telling them that they do not like this, or telling their partners that they should not love their wife/girlfriend in the way that their wife/girlfriend wants. Moreover it is always possible that one or more of the women who read this thread is into this sort of thing. In which case they are going to be reading it as saying "you are a pervert, a sick fucking pervert" directly at them over and over again.

If a woman is into masochism, if she like to be hurt, if it turns her on, then that is her business. It is not for you, me, or anyone else to tell her what she can or cannot enjoy. And it is even more not our place to tell her partner that he is not allowed to satisfy her.

Sorry, rant over.

my brother is a bartender and he says that Donkey Punch is a drink that he serves to the drunkest guy in the bar right before closing, it consists of wringing out his bar rag in a shot glass, and then wha la down the hatch (if you are ever in Tempe, AZ don't do shots after 1 AM at Margarita Rocks)

Ecchi, thanks for your rant, but you obviously misunderstood what I was saying.

Read my post again.

These things are NOT about masochism, they're not about Femdom, they're not about me saying women can't enjoy being hurt, and it's not about me saying I think women into masochism are perverts. As I said, if it's consensual, it's fine.

I'm saying that these made up sex acts aren't about consensual sex at all, they're about thinking of ways to humiliate and hurt women who do NOT want to be hurt. And I find that very disturbing.

However, and yes, this is judgemental, I do find it hard to understand why a woman would want to be absolutely and utterly brutalised in bed, to the point that it is physically harmful (as opposed to safe consensual play). It's all very well to be tolerant, but there comes a point where I have to say, no I personally don't understand it and it makes me wonder about what would motivate a woman to be turned on by that

My opinion.

What I was actually saying is: (taking your paragraph "I'm saying that these made up sex acts aren't about consensual sex at all, they're about thinking of ways to humiliate and hurt women who do NOT want to be hurt. And I find that very disturbing.")

These are NOT "made up sex acts" and although it is hard to believe some women do want to be hurt and humiliated like this.

What I find disturbing is that most men and some women are not able to accept that woman can be allowed to make decisions for themselves like this, and take the view that "as they are only women they need our help". And really disturbing is that often people with these views cannot even see why this is sexist.

And as to true cruelty to women, mental cruelty is a lot worse than physical cruelty. If there are any women members of this board who are into this sort of thing, your continual insistence that this is wrong (or disturbing, or whatever words you use) is a worse thing to do to them than any man who inflicts the physical things discussed on unwilling women.

In other words, posting "I do find it hard to understand why a woman would want to be absolutely and utterly brutalised in bed, to the point that it is physically harmful (as opposed to safe consensual play). It's all very well to be tolerant, but there comes a point where I have to say, no I personally don't understand it and it makes me wonder about what would motivate a woman to be turned on by that" Is as bad, if not worse, than a guy who gets his thrills beating up women.

Yeah, sorry, I am coming on stronger than etiquette allows. But this sort of belittling of women really makes my blood boil.

If two people want to beat each other senseless with baseball bats that is up to them as long as it is consensual. Doesn't matter if it is two men, two woman, or a woman and a man, just matters that it is consensual. Boxing is legal and advertised on TV. Personally I think it is disgusting and choose not to watch it but what the hell do I know.

The other night I was watching this show on HBO where people were doing extreme body modifications including paying someone to slice open your skin with nothing for the pain in order to scar themselves. Personally I think paying some dude to take a scalpel and make incisions into your face in order to scar you is far worse then someone that gets off being punched during sex.

How do you know these sex acts are real? Have you seen them? Do you know someone who regularly knocks their partner out during sex? Do you know someone who has punched a woman in the eye after a blowjob, just so he can admire the pretty colours of the bruise?

I do not think what I'm saying is sexist at all. As I said, I've spoken with a woman who was into all sorts of violent (consensual) stuff, and if she wants to do that it's fine, I'm not denying her freedom or saying she shouldn't do it.

What I am saying is that I personally find it hard to put myself in the place of a woman who would enjoy *non consensual violent sex*, and that I find the idea of that kind of sex to be disturbing.

There's a difference between personally finding something disturbing and saying that it is wrong. It's my right to find things disturbing.

And as I said before, if you read that list of "disturbing sex acts" you would see that they are written from a male point of view, and they're all about being cruel to a woman WITHOUT HER CONSENT, for the sole purpose of providing the man with pleasure.

That is completely different from consensual masochistic acts, which, I will repeat, I do not have a problem with (even if they're not my bag).

I'm not sure where to begin with this. There's a scale now? And again, how do you know?

And are you seriously saying that what I've written about this is somehow worse than the shit on that list?

That me saying that I think our hypothetical woman that enjoys being beaten and raped is somehow going to be offended that I find her behaviour disturbing.

And yes, beaten and raped, because, when I think about this, that's what this conversation is about. It's NOT about consensual masochism, it's about dangerous, cruel, nasty violence and rape.

Maybe I misread something but I thought we are talking about consensual acts.

I really didn't expect this when I asked what a Donkey Punch was. Of course whatever adults want to do to eachother is fine. If a man wants to get kicked in the balls while he dances in a dress and the woman likes to do it, what the hell do I care.

Well, Ecchi seems to be arguing that I am saying consensual masochism is wrong and that wasn't my point at all.

Oh ok, I knew that you were talking about consensual masochism. :)

Jim I've known men actually into being crossed dressed and kicked in the balls. In fact I did some of the kicking. But I don't remember any dancing going on other then the man's happy dance.

grandmascrotum -RE"How do you know these sex acts are real?" - OK, not every single one, but most of them. When I had a "bricks and mortar" business selling videos, lingerie, costumes, and "roll play" items I spent a lot of time with my customers discussing their turn ons (basically, if I did not have other customers waiting, and I found a customer willing to talk about it (surprisingly more would talk about it than refused) I would ask them outright about their sexual turn-ons, it both helped as "customer research" and also made the customers think that I was trying to please them, plus talking made them think of me as a friend, so more liable to come back). Believe me, some of the things the women said they liked were even worse than the things you have read here.

RE : "There's a difference between personally finding something disturbing and saying that it is wrong. It's my right to find things disturbing." Yes but that right does not include the right to cause other's suffering by shouting that belief from the rooftops. For example, you are Australian, and I could have furthered my point about sexism my saying that every Australian women I have spoken to over here on the subject has said that they preferred English men to Australian men because All Australian men are so sexist, but I didn't, because I did not think it was an appropriate thing to say here.

RE : "There's a difference between personally finding something disturbing and saying that it is wrong." My point entirely, but your (and you are not alone in this) earlier posts did the latter.

RE : your comments on my statement "And as to true cruelty to women, mental cruelty is a lot worse than physical cruelty." I was going by articles written by doctors, psychiatrists, and people who run shelters for abused women. All three groups are more qualified in this field than either of us, and yes they do say that mental cruelty is a lot worse than physical cruelty.

RE:"And are you seriously saying that what I've written about this is somehow worse than the shit on that list?" Yes, but don't take my word on it, look up what the experts say

RE: "That me saying that I think our hypothetical woman that enjoys being beaten and raped is somehow going to be offended that I find her behaviour disturbing." It is not offending her that is the problem, it is the fact that you are denigrating her (difficult to explain, again read what the experts say, they can explain it better than me).

Cleo - We were, the non consensual stuff only came up when I used a quote from grandmascrotum and they (understandably) wanted to defend the post.

RE : "I really didn't expect this when I asked what a Donkey Punch was." That is the glory of a notice board, you never know where it leads. I am a little too wound up in this argument to enjoy this thread (does it show?) but if it did not involve me, and was on a topic that I did not care so much about, I would probably be enjoying the debate immensely as a lurker, laughing at both sides.

You guts & gals are taking this way too seriously :D

My favorite doesn't translate well in text - it's the Palm Sundae, where you blow your load on the palm of your hand & ask her if she want's a sundae |couch|