Greenguy's Board - Have you joined the FSC? If not, why not?

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- - Have you joined the FSC? If not, why not? (http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?t=20820)

Just got off the phone with the FSC.

Geez, gotta agree...their membership fee structure is a bit confusing to say the least :(

Apparenly, if you have a parent company you operate under (not necessarily a corporation, but a business entity)...the annual fees are based on annual revenue...not $300/site.

In my case, turns out I paid too much at $300...even though I own 60+ domains. And yes, she offered to process a refund for the difference.

The one thing I dont agree with is that the prices changed - I did some research and they have charged $300 for Webmasters/Websites since at least the beginning of 2004 - thank goodness for archive.org :)
The difference is that they did not have the $300 per site - they just had a category - Webmasters/websites - $300

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrYum

hey MrYum did you happen to ask them what the average joe webmaster is supposed to pay or whether they should sign up based on revenue?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrYum

Just got off the phone with the FSC.

Geez, gotta agree...their membership fee structure is a bit confusing to say the least :(

Doesn't it get you a little nervous that they overcharged you because they didn't get all the details right?

*Nervously asks* Does anyone know if the ACLU will put forth an injunction?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Blue

*Nervously asks* Does anyone know if the ACLU will put forth an injunction?

have no idea, but the ACLU does have their shit together on their website, I'm a "card carrying member" as their website puts it and their fees are as little as $35

and they are helping to fight the crazy laws that Utah is trying to implement to censor content the is "harmful to minors

http://www.acluutah.org/pr060905.htm

actually I just read on thier website that the minimum to become a member is $20

i was thinking to join but hey i am dutch far away from us, the way i talk US, i also understand the US language spoken by those law people...meaning i dont understand shit of it..........i am realing thinking of taking some lessons so i understand the diffecult words better (even others like the way i talk and dont care how others think about that) (stu still thinking why the hell she has bin in college till age 21 and still dont understand the diffecult talking, see college is bad , and no use:D)no for real i dont think it has any use for me to join that, convince me please.......(did i say that right?)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kinky

I wonder if we could approach the ACLU as a group and ask them to use our donations / contributions strictly to fight the 2257 regs. Hell I would gladly throw $100 their way if it was ear-marked for something like that and the ACLU got some seriously good attorneys working for them.

Mr Blue...nope not at all. Mistakes happen all the time. But, I will say this...at least from an organizational standpoint...the FSC doesn't really seem to have their collective shit together. Sad, but true...

I'm hoping their lawyers are better than their office organization :D

Kinky, kinda goes to what I said above. When I was talking to her, she was able to ascertain how I could have joined in a more cost effective manner. However, she really couldn't concisely explain what it would cost for someone else to join.

Yes, I told her the convoluted nature of their sliding scale was definitely putting off new members...as was the high price.

Frankly, if anyone is really interested...I'd suggest calling them on the phone. Maybe if they get enough calls, they'll figure out a simpler membership pricing structure is in order.

What a pain...yes, one would hope that after all this time...they'd have their shit together better. Disappointing...yup, but...if their attorneys do what they say...I'll be more than satisfied :)

Dumb ???? :D have they ever heard of PayPal or Moneybookers??? they are not an adult web site or selling adult products, so why not throw the buttons up on the site in 5 seconds and take CC's I just don't get the FSC sorry send the hate mail if you want I see too much BS going on, and it is now 9:33pm on June the 15th Court is closed means tommorow is the 16th of June and a Thursday! which leaves Friday the 17th of June if not filed then Monday will be the 20th of JUNE!!!!! 3 fucking days before the regs go into effect! when are they going to file this injunction?? I saw a post last week that it would be filed in a week then i see a post yesterday that it would be filed in a week?? when are they going to file in August??

ACLU :) i contacted them as soon as the regs passed in the federal register (my local office) and they were very interested and took the basic info and had their attorneys go over it etc they told me at this time after looking into if because the FSC was already involed they did not want to step on their toes for now but would keep an eye on it and keep me informed, they were fast as hell only a day. I have worked with them before on a federal 1st amendment lawsuit and we won we were college students on a newspaper and were never even asked about money we had a huge top law firm plus ACLU attorneys so i would feel much more comfortable with them. (ohh, when i called they never even asked if i was a member :) didn't matter only the case and if rights of american citizens were being violated)

Maybe if everyone starts calling them and asks their local office for help and explains the situation we can get some help, i called my local PA office so no need to call them, but any other state please call and ask :)

thanks MrYum and yeah it does kinda suck that they haven't been able to streamline the online side of the business into their whole program, hopefully all the hoopla will end up with them working more closely with the online webmasters in the future

Quote:

Originally Posted by babymaker

Maybe if everyone starts calling them and asks their local office for help and explains the situation we can get some help, i called my local PA office so no need to call them, but any other state please call and ask :)

I'll put in a call tomorrow. I honestly would feel better with the ACLU handling this than any other organization...let's face it, they're kickass and they have a proven track record. If the ACLU right now was on this case I would be kicking back, relaxing and drinking beers...instead of, umm, just drinking beers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Blue

If the ACLU right now was on this case I would be kicking back, relaxing and drinking beers...instead of, umm, just drinking beers.

LOL! Good stuff Mr. Blue :D

Sounds like we're of a similar mind Kinky :)

Babymaker...excellent idea! The more the merrier in this instance. These ARE civil right issues...and the more attention brought to it...the better |thumb

I'll ask my gf to make some calls tomorrow :) As of a few hours ago, I am an ACLU member...every little bit helps!

Great! with you two we have two of the biggest and most important states covered NY and FL :D thanx! anyone from California :)

Yikes, got some conversation going now! :)

Kinky,

Quote:

Originally Posted by kinky

a) they had online registration and had problems with it ... ... (not to mention they were scammed out of a lare amount of money on their website, yet nodody in the industry offered to help them at all with designs, biling etc.)

Did they ask anyone? And I call bullshit on "having problems". They took it offline because their online billing didn't work - that's my best guess. And again I will state if they had their shit together they could have been back up and running online within a day.

Quote:

b) you are right, but few webmasters have ever shown support for them, and everybody was running for protection once the revised regs came out...

And this justifies a massive price hike - per website/domain - how? I'd have to pay upwards of $10,000 to cover my business! For $10,000 I'll hire my OWN attorney who I know will represent ME in court. I'm not tossing that kind of money at an alleged "Trade Organization" that "hopefully" will file an injunction...

Quote:

c) the case they won was similar to the current 2257 fiasco in that it wasn't meant to protect children at all, it was government censorship, and if they hadn't fought it then a lot of teen content would be illegal to use today (and it was hardly "an open and shut case")

Actually, in US Supreme Court case terms/durations it *was* pretty much a slam dunk.

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d) shit happens and so do dis-agreements... so who do you suggest is controlling the "puppets"?

I don't know you, perhaps you weren't in this biz back in 2002/2003. Lots of things have changed since then within the FSC and none of them have been favorable IMHO. Just go to their own About Us page and look at what they are using as their claim to fame. Look at the timeline that they themselves publish. I don't know about you, but I see a lot of dead air in between "accomplishments".

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e) it costs a lot of fucking money to lobby in washington... the FSC doesn't exactly have the money that the lobbyists like the tobaco and gun industry do, and they don't have millions of people stopping by every sunday to give their hard earned money away like the religious factions that give tons of money and have powerful voices in politics do...

Fourteen years and so far they have ZERO lobbyists in Washington, since they fired everyone that *did* have influence in 2003. Their own claim? From their site: "In 1997 FSC retained Kat Sunlove as California lobbyist to represent its legislative interests in the state." That's it according to them.

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f) i won't claim to know the answer to who the injunction will cover and i won't speculate either, i've heard arguments both ways with no overwhelming winner... i hope that they are not saying it to get more members as that would be a black eye for them

My statement on this matter is and was my own opinion and you are certainly entitled to your own. :) However, it is now officially Thursday the 16th - that's a mere 4 judicial days until this thing becomes law. I thought they were ready back in January???

Quote:

g) where else do you suggest they get their money? again the FSC doesn't exactly have the money that the lobbyists like the tobaco and gun industry do, and they don't have millions of people stopping by every sunday to give their hard earned money away like the religious factions that give tons of money and have powerful voices in politics do...

Aside from the money factor, enough people have already demonstrated the math here showing that $300/domain is fucking ludicrous - think Numbers. The FSC is (or should be) an organization that brings clout in sheer numbers of members it represents. 1000 members that paid literally thousands of dollars to join have a much smaller voice than 100,000 members that paid $50 to join.

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AOPA- i don't give two shits about airplanes and it has no bearing on anything (apples to oranges) and their membership base is probably huge compared to the FSC and i'm sure there are some rather rich airplane owners making contributions not to mention the airline industry.... they might have UW convinced with the free hat though I hear he only goes for t-shirts

Actually, you should give two shits about airplanes - whether you ever fly or not, they are flying over you all the time. And yes, their membership base IS huge - know why? Because their membership rates are affordable and their benefits are great. Kind of like joining AAA - you pay a nominal yearly rate and you get some great protection and benefits. And sure, there are probably some people that contribute thousands, maybe millions, per year to the AOPA. Because the AOPA actually has shown a proven track record of doing something!

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EXTORTION? you are accusing them of stealing money then? that is a big accusation and also bullshit, if you can't afford it or don't want to pay it then don't join, but extortion is ridiculous IMO

Where did you find an accusation in "I for one, will never succumb to extortion." ? I merely stated my own opinion on what I do feel they are doing. Nothing libelous there, merely stating an opinion. Kind of like me saying "I think Useless Warrior is a cocksucker." (I don't, but it's fun to poke at him. lol) There's no libelous or slanderous content there.

Quote:

contibutions when becoming a member of the ACLU are also not tax deductible, are they bad also?

While your membership dues are not tax-deductible to the ACLU, any further contribution is: "Gifts to the ACLU Foundation are tax-deductible to the donor to the extent permissible by law." And as you have stated yourself, as of this post, membership to the ACLU isn't $300 per website/business you own.

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by the way join the ACLU if you haven't done so

Actually, the correct link is http://www.aclu.org/ - a card carrying member should know their proper URL. ;)

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and they do have lobbyists, just not on the national level as of yet and seeing as they haven't had huge amounts of support over the years I can understand why (lack of funds)

Again, 14 years since they were founded and yet they STILL haven't managed to get a single competent lobbyist in Washington.

Quote:

not to mention that not one other orginaization has been vocal in saying that they will do anything to shoot down the regulations... if the FSC is so bad what are our other options? if you have some please let me know as lining up to try and comply just doesn't feel right to me

Hire an attorney, preferably one competent in "Adult" law, and get your ass legal or prepared to go to court and fight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by babymaker

Great! with you two we have two of the biggest and most important states covered NY and FL :D thanx! anyone from California :)

An update...

Called ACLU Florida and left a message for the person who would handle such things...will update again later after she calls back.

For now, I'm gonna get away from all this stuff for a couple hours...splash around in the pool a bit...maybe even ravish the girlfriend :D

Even we webmasters gotta take a break SOMETIMES! hehehe

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrYum

For now, I'm gonna get away from all this stuff for a couple hours...splash around in the pool a bit...maybe even ravish the girlfriend :D

Even we webmasters gotta take a break SOMETIMES! hehehe

that is the best advice I have heard since around may 23rd |thumb party time in MrYum's pool!!! clothing optional!!!

|party |party

Quote:

Originally Posted by venturi

Yikes, got some conversation going now! :)

Kinky,

Did they ask anyone? And I call bullshit on "having problems". They took it offline because their online billing didn't work - that's my best guess. And again I will state if they had their shit together they could have been back up and running online within a day.

And this justifies a massive price hike - per website/domain - how? I'd have to pay upwards of $10,000 to cover my business! For $10,000 I'll hire my OWN attorney who I know will represent ME in court. I'm not tossing that kind of money at an alleged "Trade Organization" that "hopefully" will file an injunction...

Actually, in US Supreme Court case terms/durations it *was* pretty much a slam dunk.

I don't know you, perhaps you weren't in this biz back in 2002/2003. Lots of things have changed since then within the FSC and none of them have been favorable IMHO. Just go to their own About Us page and look at what they are using as their claim to fame. Look at the timeline that they themselves publish. I don't know about you, but I see a lot of dead air in between "accomplishments".

Fourteen years and so far they have ZERO lobbyists in Washington, since they fired everyone that *did* have influence in 2003. Their own claim? From their site: "In 1997 FSC retained Kat Sunlove as California lobbyist to represent its legislative interests in the state." That's it according to them.

My statement on this matter is and was my own opinion and you are certainly entitled to your own. :) However, it is now officially Thursday the 16th - that's a mere 4 judicial days until this thing becomes law. I thought they were ready back in January???

Aside from the money factor, enough people have already demonstrated the math here showing that $300/domain is fucking ludicrous - think Numbers. The FSC is (or should be) an organization that brings clout in sheer numbers of members it represents. 1000 members that paid literally thousands of dollars to join have a much smaller voice than 100,000 members that paid $50 to join.

Actually, you should give two shits about airplanes - whether you ever fly or not, they are flying over you all the time. And yes, their membership base IS huge - know why? Because their membership rates are affordable and their benefits are great. Kind of like joining AAA - you pay a nominal yearly rate and you get some great protection and benefits. And sure, there are probably some people that contribute thousands, maybe millions, per year to the AOPA. Because the AOPA actually has shown a proven track record of doing something!

Where did you find an accusation in "I for one, will never succumb to extortion." ? I merely stated my own opinion on what I do feel they are doing. Nothing libelous there, merely stating an opinion. Kind of like me saying "I think Useless Warrior is a cocksucker." (I don't, but it's fun to poke at him. lol) There's no libelous or slanderous content there.

While your membership dues are not tax-deductible to the ACLU, any further contribution is: "Gifts to the ACLU Foundation are tax-deductible to the donor to the extent permissible by law." And as you have stated yourself, as of this post, membership to the ACLU isn't $300 per website/business you own.

Actually, the correct link is http://www.aclu.org/ - a card carrying member should know their proper URL. ;)

Again, 14 years since they were founded and yet they STILL haven't managed to get a single competent lobbyist in Washington.

Hire an attorney, preferably one competent in "Adult" law, and get your ass legal or prepared to go to court and fight.

venturi I am pulling the DOJ card on you.... "I refuse to accept these comments" :D

we disagree on the FSC, to each his own

and that bad ACLU url wasn't me, it was my rogue designer!!!! |spook

Quote:

Originally Posted by venturi

Kind of like me saying "I think Useless Warrior is a cocksucker."

:D Get in line!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trev_UK

For all I know you might be the biggest player here and it still bothers me none as you’re just a fucktard in my opinion!

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Originally Posted by J Loves Porn

Useless Warrior you are fucking asshole man

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Originally Posted by J Loves Porn

you know, I am fucking tired with guys like Useless Warrior

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Originally Posted by kinky

that is the best advice I have heard since around may 23rd |thumb party time in MrYum's pool!!! clothing optional!!!

|party |party

LOL! Too bad ya missed it Kinky...a good time was had by all. Just one little detail...it's not a clothing optional pool...it's a clothing forbidden pool! :D

UW, come on now...you know we love ya |loony|

ACLU update...someone from the Florida office called me back. She was not aware of anything to do with 2257, or if anyone in their office was aware of it. Obviously, I enlightened her...lol.

She suggested that I send an e-mail to an address she provided. Said that it would end up on an associates desk who would then look into the situation and ascertain if the ACLU should be involved.

I won't repost my e-mail here, but I did provide them with enough information to realize there are significant civil rights issues involved...and that we have a 6/23 deadline date looming.

That's my update for the day...think I'm gonna get sling some porn! Biz as usual til I know otherwise |bananna|

Great Mr. Yum :D that was how it went when i called they didn't really know about it yet, but i think they only act on complaints since they have so much going on unless it's a big story in the news :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by babymaker

Yep, that was exactly the impression I got Babymaker...but the more organizations that know about what's going on...the better :)

just found this:

http://www.avnonline.com/index.php?P...tent_ID=230236

about the filing today not much info but something at least :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kinky

...and they are helping to fight the crazy laws that Utah is trying to implement to censor content the is "harmful to minors

Another discussion about the Utah law.
http://www.dailyutahchronicle.com/me...i-957472.shtml

"...tremendous job to index all objectionable sites on the Internet. ......office is supposed to pull it off on a budget of $100,000"
Dumbasses!!!

You can join and get billed $25 a month.

Quote:

Originally Posted by babymaker

just found this:

http://www.avnonline.com/index.php?P...tent_ID=230236

about the filing today not much info but something at least :)

HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!! the FSC actually did what they said they were gonna do? MY GOD it is a miracle :D and the article says "on behalf of it's members" which is interesting in itself, not sure how to read into that, i really hope that whatever happens will cover everybody and not just FSC members

Quote:

Originally Posted by kinky

Agreed Kinky...it certainly should cover everyone |thumb

The sooner the court looks at this the better!

No, because I have been unable to.

The online form doesn't work, and I've yet to get a phone call answered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrYum

Agreed Kinky...it certainly should cover everyone |thumb

The sooner the court looks at this the better!

Isn't it better if this gets tied up in the courts for a while?

you know, i never see the fsc being really involved with the webmaster community. i would be more inspired to join, but the only times i hear from them is either an article on xbiz newsletters or when they want contributions.

i can understand wanting contributions - lawyers aren't free - but i feel that they're interested in their members, and not really that interested in the industry.

and i admit freely i could be wrong, but i don't remember hearing from them on the boards or hear they are talking to people except at their own meetings or working to educate or asking for volunteers...

Quote:

Originally Posted by basschick

it's a two way street, the online industry has never reached out to have a bigger role in working with the FSC, and they have won a court case as the plaintiff that effects any webmaster that works with teen content, most people have no idea what they have done, and just becuase they have only ben the plaintiff in one case does not mean that they have not been behind the scenes on numerous court cases and battles in the past

I have to say that I am disappointed by the lack of correspondence we get from them. I would like a daily update or at least an update once in a while.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim

I have to say that I am disappointed by the lack of correspondence we get from them. I would like a daily update or at least an update once in a while.

you mean those golf tourney sponsorship e-mails arent getting thru?? lol totally fucking kidding but I think the lack of updates was due to the fact that they didn't want to tip their hand to the gov't one bit as to where the suit would be filed or who the plaintiffs would be, that is just my opinion, I got an update by e-mail yesterday... and aside from the 2257 stuff man are there some bullshit laws being upheld, like "U.S. District Judge Larry Alan Burns has upheld a
highly restrictive 2002 county adult business ordinance that bans nudity,
touching and tipping in exotic dancing clubs."

since most of us aren't sure what the fsc does from day to day, we don't really have a reason to be involved with them. they ARE sure what we do. just because they feel they're doing something for our industry doesn't mean most people think so - mostly we hear of their changes of personnel, and occasionally of their involvement in a crisis.

their estrangement from our community is one reason so many people aren't anxious to join, and why a lot of webmasters feel that they only appear when they want our money. other trade organizations try and involve themselves with the people they represent. the fsc holds itself aloof, and that doesn't really lead to a feeling that they are part of us.

i live in l.a. and the fsc at least used to be here. they never came to a webmaster lunch, and they were very announced. some had pretty large attendance. not all of us go to conventions, and not all of us are the big boys. we don't know how they choose the lawyers they use, and i'm wondering why they didn't go for an interlocutory injunction - or if they did.

do paying members get a say in any of the things they do?