You do realize it is politically incorrect to speak of such things openly?|club| The thought police are on their way.

Actually, if it was a guy posting that, he probably would've recieved death threats by now.|shocking|

Well, I have had a membership to one bdsm site several years ago, which I had a hard time unsubscribing from and left me wary of others, then, say, oh, 2 years ago I was a member of waterbondage.com for several months, a site I just couldn't resist. I have had a membership at ifriends.net for about 3 years now, but I do live cam shows there. I bought a few short cam shows from other chathosts a while ago. Typically I am more likely to purchase a fetish magazine or buy a DVD than a subscription to a website, frankly because I produce the stuff and it isn't so appealing to me, and I am at the computer far too often to want to sit around on it for longer following any paysites. I don't know if I am representative, however, I do not know of any of my female friends who would subscribe to a paysite, at least they don't admit it, and we talk pretty openly about such things. I have a couple of female members, or at least the name on their card is.

Nancy Friday documented the popularity of female rape fantasies in My Secret Garden in the 70s. The thing is, it's never about real rape. It's about being forced to be pleasured, about not having to take responsibility for your own pleasure. The female's needs are the focus, not the male's.

Interestingly, when she released Women on Top 20 years later she found that the rape fantasy wasn't as big. She said women had become more relaxed about their sexuality in the meantime. There was less guilt. So there was no need to rely on a rape fantasy to assuage that guilt.

It would be tricky to depict the powerplay of that fantasy in photos or video. And, yes, the Jesus people would be after you because they wouldn't be able to pick up on the different context. Rape in porn is a dangerous topic.

I once had a girlfreind that wanted to be choked while I fucked her (sexual asphyxia) and beat as well. The sexual predilections between two parties are not the business of ANYONE else .....ever.

So I agree with you Grandma on the danger aspect, but why? because of puritannical morons who wish to impart their morality on the planet.|huh

Morality is subjective and a progeny of local custom, never universal.

Sadean nihilism is the truth, like it or not.

I tire of suffering fools.|angry|

Oh, so many interesting threads tangled together here I don't even know where to begin!

It would be a very interesting test, I think, if one of the "For Women" LL owners added some sort of special section for the rougher stuff.

I remember reading My Secret Garden, but I didn't know she wrote a followup. I base my assesment on just my own experiences and the people I've met. I have personally gone hunting for the more violent stuff, and whenever I find it I'm not the only woman there looking. Rape fantasies may only be a very tiny proportion of all female fantasies but that doesn't mean there aren't millions of women having them; possibly even enough to support it as a porn niche. And this isn't even beginning to touch the other side of this particular coin, extreme Femdom fantasies.

Many feminists, as well as the Jesus-police, would object to the whole "she ended up enjoying it" theme of the classic female rape fantasy; after all it's not how real women really react to real crimes. But (leaving aside the issue of whether the availablity of such porn somehow turns men into rapists, which is itself highly debatable) I am not so sure that *that* style of fantasy is actually the norm.

For instance, my in own fantasies of this type, I prefer to imagine acts that not only would I *not* do in real life, but which are physically impossible - accosted by a handsome stranger and "forced" to have an orgasm I can play at anytime with dh. Eg. the guys always have dicks as big around as your arm and can cum seventeen times in three hours, shooting voluminous loads each time. (Hence the cartoons, rather than pics or movies.) Perhaps because there's not much I really wouldn't do with a consenting partner, I guess I feel the need for a complete break from the possible in these fantasies. (Could this be a sort of alternate response to the lessening of sexual guilt observed by Nancy Friday?) Interestingly enough, in my fantasies I also often (but not exclusively) assume the role of the male aggressor; I force myself to submit to my own raging desire, and I am also the irresistable object of lust, the hot piece that my desire must posses. And none of them wear my actual body, lol!

In my whopping 36 years of experience (|loony| ), it seems to me that everybody's fantasies (both men and women) are so very individual, their sources and the psychologial meanings each person ascribes to them so unique, that it is next to useless to speculate about any kind of commonality.

Why is it - if it is not a symptom of psychological or societal damage - that so many humans, male and female, have sexual fantasies involving dominance, submission and violence? Simply because the emotions involved - fear, anger, etc - invoke the exact same physical responses as sexual arousal. To your body, it's the same (or nearly the same) thing, and sex is all about what happens in the body, is it not? I think some of us like our sex spiced with extra helpings of those feelings in the same way as some folks like spicy foods, or get a kick out of skydiving. I also think that the presence of violent fantasy porn - and accompanying educational resources - is an excellent way of dealing with these urges, which might perhaps lead to real crimes if not diverted, or perhaps only to lives of dissatisfaction for those whose cravings go unfulfilled.

If I *were* to make rape-fantasy porn I think I would, rather than just make vids or whatever with the "she ended up enjoying it" approach, provide a behind-the-scenes look at each model and/or production. Kind of "yeah, hi, this is me and I'm gonna do this kinky scene because it turns me on and it's a fun way to make a buck." The scene itself could then either follow the classic forced-to-enjoy-it pattern or take a more brutish tone, and it would still be clear (one hopes) to the viewer that the participants are consenting.

Some folks I know would insist that this wouldn't be enough, that even those bits could be faked by an unscrupulous enough pornmeister, and I guess this is also true. But at some point the right/ability to say NO has to also mean the right/ability to say YES. Even if it's yes to making, buying, and viewing stuff that many would find distasteful.

Have I |angry| ed too much? I apologize...I've been celebrating a little, hehehe|cheers|

Cherie

You have touched on the very meaning/root of the rape fantasy. To be lusted and desired so much that someone would TAKE their pleasure risking the fact you may not enjoy it and in fact be traumatized. The woman with this fantasy is not thinking about how she might be totally freaked out by a real rape just as 99.999999% of real women are.

To be lusted after so much that a man is out of control.
To be lusted after so much that a man takes me.
To be lusted after so much that, in the end, my mind is blown away by matched passion for my attacker.

There is another way that women play this lust for lust out. They partake in the D/s relationship. A woman assumes the submissive role in order to be told what she will do. She will not be responsible for her actions and can be taken by 50 men in one night if it is her masters wishes. In D/s the rape scene is played out in public scenes where the master invites some other master watching to take what he wants from his submissive. When I say public I would imagine this is not at a fet night but a public invite only party for example. Anyways, what I am getting at is that the "being taken without my permission" part of the fantasy is also done by groups of people who do not name this a rape fantasy.

A few other points on this. First off you ALWAYS have to show consent. The BDSM community is video taping all of their scenes. They always film a before interview where they ask her previous experience and what she is expecting today. Then they ask after how she liked it etc. It is the ONLY way to show consentualism. If you want to have a pretend rape paysite, you MUST CLEARLY show consent. This starts with how you word your tour text and ends with this type of before/after interviewing of the model.

The sleeping sex sites pretended to be rape fantasy sites when they first came out and thought that this was fine...that the women really wanted it. There was enough uproar about how you can't just verbalize on a message board that you are not pushing real degredation of women, your tour must say its pretend or about fantasy.

On the issue of porn for women. Of course we are not meeting all womens needs. We have three sites worthy of mention. For the Girls, Sssh and the Clothed Female Naked Male sites are actually making tours that say "heh we are a for women porn site" of course there are other sites that women will like. Example of a site women like might be a femdom site but personally, a site that is femdom where the man always gets sucked or wanked off in the end is not true to its niche...instead its true to men (as usual). So a femdom, lesbian, big cock, total fuck slut etc site made by women for women would be a nice twist. People will say 'what about that site where there are two women who rape men'? That site is still all about the guy getting off and so to me the focus is not enough on the women. If they are trying to meet the needs of females, some of the men would be left high and dry.

The last point I want to make is about the rape fantasy again. I personally have enough respect for those who have gone through a real rape trauma to never make such a site. I will always fight against any porn mongerer that will not show consentualism up front and center in their tour pictures (harder) and text (very very easy to do) and inside their members area. I have respect for men and women and children and WILL NOT stand by while others go for the dollar vs. humankind. They can hide behind the "freedom of speech" arguement all they want but its not appropriate to produce hurtful material.

If a rape fantasy site can be made where the tour and content make it very clear that its all about the fantasy that WOMEN have, then I think it will go over better with the authorities. I would imagine this is the very reason there are few if any of these sites.



.

YES! |bananna|

I very much look forward to the day when enough people agree that we've fought for the right to say "no" long enough and turn some of their energies to the fight for the right to say "yes" to more things. Sometimes it seems there is so much attention paid to all the variations of "No Means No" and "Just Say No" that no one is remembering/teaching/learning that "Yes Means Yes" is something of value too.

Okay, I'm back out. I just wanted to say that I'm a big believer in the right to say YES.

I agree.


The fact of the matter is, individual freedom is so valuble, I would stand up for people whos ideas and desires i hate just because their freedom to choose what they wish so long as it harms no one is that important to me.

I am too.|thumb

I stand for absolute freedom for myself and others, it is irrelevant if I like or dislike what they choose to do, what is relevant however, is that it's none of my godamn business.

I have a question for you...those people who say ABSOLUTES like you just did. Is it really appropriate to say every person has absolute freedom? What about the rules of not harming another person (without their consent)? So you are saying a rapist has the individual freedom to rape?

Susanna, Did you actually read my post?



The condition of freedom was so long as it harmed no one else.


In the future, they will.

is it just me or are all the chicks in this buisness really kinky :)

is there any one that would wanna submit 4women sites to tommys but cant because the partner accounts are closed
if so just PM me and something can be worked out

you should move !!!!!

everyone that lives in the south that has.. uhh whats the word .... thoughts.... should move to the north

come up to NY we have the best tasting water and ya can get really good begals at 4am

Yes I read it but you did not put that part in your final comment. I was making a point.

Don't be a such a sensationalist. You're smarter than that. I have testes and I know that that is not what she meant. Is it really necessary that she lists the things which she wouldn't like absolute freedom for?

1. No freedom to rape.
2. No freedom to dip cats in gasoline and set them ablaze.
3. No more than 10 items in an express lane.

I think so Useless, from now on, I'll list them in sequential order, from least offensive to most, ending with #3 on your list.The sheer horror of it all, sometimes I wake up in a cold sweat thinking about that lady with 24 items who used change to pay.|shocking|