I think hanging around/posting here helps, I get submitters that wouldn't know me except from here, and I submit myself to sites that may not send the most traffic but it's more of a relationship than just getting traffic.

The other thing, as I think Preacher pointed out, is that a lot of LLs start then die for one reason or another within the first couple of years. What that means to me is that the ones that stick around will only grow more with bookmarkers and submitters that know who's here to stay.

I agree, a LL is not the way to make quick bucks here, but that's what freesites/galleries are for. LLs are more of a labour of love (or hate lol) but you really have to WANT to do it, for the surfers and the submitters. Otherwise, you're better off with hubs.

ps I always liked the look of your LL, ynuahayt :)

Jumping in late here. First of all, great thread, lots of great info. Thanks for sharing Preacher. Kudos to you for getting your numbers straight. I know I'm making sales from my LLs, but really couldn't say how much since I don't have the willpower, energy or time to track down every sale, nor do all sponsors have the facilities. But I'm getting checks from sponsors I don't promote anywhere else and for now that makes me happy. :D

In addition to all the other great advice given here I can add the following (chilling) personal observations. There's been a lot of talk about making some money (profit) within a year or two or three. But there's money and there's money. Guess what? IMO there will never be another LOR, PenisBot or Hoes. Unless the top 15-20 biggies suddenly decide to become Zen monks and shut down their sites the rest of us are doomed to a life fighting over scraps and leftovers.

So why do I do it? Well, I still believe there's money to be made, and unless I want to be a serf the rest of my life (and I use that term in the best possible meaning :D) I need to build some sort of network where the traffic is mine. The lion's share of my income is from sales from freesites, but each month a greater portion is from traffic I generated myself.

Specifically from my LL experience I would offer the following advice to anyone planning on jumping on the bandwagon: Have a plan. Sounds simple, but many people (myself included) just go out and buy a script and hope for the best. Mistakes you make right off the bat can be very hard to correct later.

I also agree with ynuahayt. Think outside the box. The more pages you put out there, the better.

So if you think you have what it takes (a spouse with a high paid job, stubbornness bordering on stupidity, a healthy appetite for Ramen and a willingness to burn the midnight oil) go for it, the sooner the better. It's not easy to get a foot inside the door, but the longer you wait, the harder it's going to get.

What a great thread!
Thanks for sharing, Preacher and everyone else.

After many hours of searching for link lists to submit to and seeing how many nice looking ones are dated and dead, I'm not too surprised by all this.. and I guess I shouldn't put too much energy into my own future LL at this point... :)

Yes, this has been an interesting thread. I think what Lemmy says is credible - it's worth owning a linklist for your own traffic.

I'm in the process of building another linklist myself - it's been hard work, I have to say, and Preacher's comments are a welcome splash of water in the face. It's always good to stop and reappraise what you're doing.

how long does it take to create a linklist if you say its hard work? just interested :)

I was running ppc to coeds and babes and have recently stopped when I noticed that I was receiving no traffic from google except ppc which was very minimal. Receive se traffic from other engines. Seems like they are able to remove all free traffic if you are willing to pay for just a little bit. |banghead|

You can Just PM this to me if ya like, it would be greatly appreciated.

Well let me know if u change ur mind :)

there's no money in porn

Thats really had to say, depends on how big you want it to be, how many catagories, ect. With most links scripts wont take long to install, then how ever long it takes to create the design or layout you want. The time comes in with adding your sponsors, reviewing submitted sites, ect.

ronnie

... and then there's courting submitters, and actually getting traffic to your list so the submitters have a reason to continue submitting... |shocking|

It only took me a few days to install the list and set up a few pages, but the big job has been researching what sponsors I want to use. I've only ever dabbled in marketing mainstream porn before so I've been on a big learning curve. And there's just so many untrustworthy sponsors out there, it's been a huge task finding sites that I think are worthwhile promoting.

So I'm still in the middle of that process.

As Virgohippy says, the next big job is building up traffic. So my little linklist is nowhere near officially open yet.

I want a link list tooo....

A good thread about a subject that renews itself every few months at all the boards. Here's a few of my perceptions from my experience:

Look lets face it, probably 40% of the people who get into the biz at any level probably shouldn't. They are neither business people nor technically proficient webmasters and this is no place to practice.

After lurking around watching the biz for about a year on the boards I bought some domains/3 page sites from ebay and moved into fray with three hubs and submitting freesites. I quickly figured out that by sheer mathematics alone a link list was the only way to establish a permanent presence on the net. That took up another year.

Then, build a list etc. get on the boards to get to know the people and learn shit, expand your sponsor list, improve the technical, adjust the focus, learn the secrets. Work, work, work. That's another year.

Realize to make any money to speak of (starting today) that you need to be able to reach at least the goal of 50k hits a day. Not only do you need to be able to count on developing this level of traffic but you also have to have a mechanism and knowledge to be able to point it. This means you have to do everything. Yep, you might not want to hear it but you need (fake or real) an LL, galleries, avs, freesites, TGP, review, blog, rss, and every other new fangled fucking thing that comes down the road like wireless, podcasting, dma timed content, and aggregation to corral your interested surfer and guide him into a paycheck. Not to mention the SEO/SE craziness.

Its a reality that you will have a ton of $15, $25, $1.98, credits sitting waiting for that magic payout number all over the world. This is becasue you must have and continually add all the sponsors you can becasue so many programs are over promoted that surfers have seen that and been there. Best hope is to tease them into something they haven't already seen.

Now you have your infrastructure and you sort of know the people and the biz. Now spend some more money and turn up the steam. Buy traffic, create alliances, hire some people to do things, learn shit, expand your sponsor list, improve the technical, adjust the focus, learn the secrets. Work, work, work. That's another year.

Three years in maybe you have hit the right notes and are near cruising speed. If you can't meet this basic then maybe you want to reconsider. Me personally, I love this and its worth every dime.

Why there's hope for the future or its worth it. This biz, like the internet is a dynamically moving target. It is impossible to predict what is coming down the road. When new changes occur there are always new doors to walk through that can take you through to the top. You'll never be able to walk through that door unless you're a player at the table.

Porn is brutally competitive. By observing what's going on in porn you can generally get an idea about what's going to be happening in the mainstream which is good for me becasue I'm in that business too. It might help you adjust your point of view if you see yourself not so much as in the porn business as in the internet delivery business. A surfer isn't a meat pounding jerfoff but a human being that is responding to a hynotic trance upon the screen and you are trying to manipulate (in most cases) his right hand.

Hey if you go into business, any business, you don't go into it (usually)expecting to make money right off. A few years or more is perfectly acceptable. If you didn't learn that in school I'm sure you've heard it somewhere. Why think you are going to be the exception?

Finally, I too agree that it is horrible the number of link lists that seem to disappear. I think it a shame and beneath the dignity of every effort. Why these don't get sold to someone is beyond me and I'd like to announce that I'll always take them. I won't return the monetary value of all the hours and sweat you put into them, but heck I'll give you something and keep the legacy alive. |huh

Long Live The Link List |yourock

Does that mean if I build one link list every day for the next six months you'll buy them all? |couch|

i have had several linksites and sold them good for a newbie, but what i hated is the one who bought them fucked them up, i didnt like that yeah it werent my lls anymore, but i had to goddamn leanred hart how to make a linksite, i am still making linksites , its not hard to make one, but getting the traffic and all is an other thing, a linksite grows slow, it needs time but focus and keep learning will get you there:) and money , hell you can get up a linksite for low cost with some good free script, it all depends if you can sett up the free script, if not then yeah others will ask a payment to sett it up, but for real thats not needed:)

btw preacher every thought of submiting your linksite to linkworth.com? those guys will put your site in a database for advertises who are interrested to put a paid add on your linksite, i have one on moviepornlist already for a year and i know more linksite ownser have their site there, btw i have more sites there it doesn only cound for linksites but also for hubs and blogs and more, just a heads up:) its a way of making money with your LL:)

Great post DJilla, good advice to follow! |thumb

stuveltje, thanks for the head's up on linkworth.com, I'd never heard of them before. I had checked out adbrite a long time ago before I knew what kind of business practices they supported. It's definitely something to consider.


A quick update of where I'm at. Traffic has increased since I began this thread as well as income, slightly. I am no longer tracking the income by site though as it was a pretty cumbersome project, and that time can be better spent on building IMO.

The new template update to each category page is complete and it appears as if it's getting more clicks through to the free-sites which was one of the goals.

As that project is finally finished, I've begun my second project which is rebuilding my other linklist's template to be the site I always wanted it to be, simple and straightforward, I just ran out of time on the first build. |loony| For anyone who is interested this is how that new template looks: http://www.depravedpornsites.com/por.../amateurs.html
(it scales much better then it used to and gets rid of a good deal of white space)

I agree, that was a good read :)

yes, thanks Stu, that is an interesting link!

sorry, I was too lazy to quote you both directly lol. This thread has been great thanks to posts like yours |thumb


this thread has spurred me to get my butt moving on some things too, so thanks very much Preacher |blowkiss| The new design looks awesome, and the second one looks like it'll be just as good. All I have to say is I hope to follow in your footsteps someday and help eliminate tables everywhere, oh css master|bow|
:D

Good Try! Ummmmmmmmm no! But thanks for asking ;)

"stuveltje, thanks for the head's up on linkworth.com" DITTO

Preacher:

http://www.depravedpornsites.com/por.../amateurs.html

nice... moving on up!!!

You're making my pants tight. :D |flowers|

Nice thread, good info for people starting new linklist's.

Now that your new avatar is up, that's REALLY FUCKING FUNNY!

Good point! |haha

Great thread and thanks for your honesty Preacher.
I hope by now you have grown and succeeded.
I imagine starting a linklist in 2009 would be even harder competting with tubes/blogs and a downturn in the economy.
Sorry to bump an old thread but if you have time how are things going?