Why? I've just been looking for rational reason for this. Got one?

Agreed. Too many people vote along party lines.

I'm in the south and most Republicans around here still believe in conservative spending, keeping government small, not regulating our lives, providing jobs in the USA, want state rights and believe we should not be borrowing money from our enemies. Yet they've spent 6 years voting against all those principles and I don't know why.

Personally I look at every candidate individually.

They didn't get a very strong conviction on Saddam. I think they really needed to nail him on charges of killing 10,000s of people instead of 148. Think about it. Right now on an average day 148 Iraqis can be killed. This is major fuel for terrorist recruiting. It's even better then the USA legalizing torture.

I think the job of terrorist recruiter is probably easier then the job of army recruiter.

That's to funny. I think he speaks very inteligently and can have a drink from my glass anytime lol. Ok so now the board has 3 republicans. Look out it's being over run lol. See I put my foot in my mouth again. Here we all were having a nice conversation about a shit head who got hung and now it's turning into a political debate again. lol

And kinky I think he is refering to this thread
http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/...ad.php?t=35920

I have to admit that one had me steaming pissed off lol.

Why? For pointing out that the Dems have had their series of missteps too? If we're going to point out that one side is flawed then why are we omitting what the other has done? Neither side is perfect, brilliant, or will bring us a utopia so why is implying that voting for one side completely will?

She's no saint. While "only" first lady she led a health care task force that burned through an enormous amount of cash, met in secret with members whose names were not disclosed, and came up with a really convoluted replacement for medicare that no one could understand (and it thankfully died a quick death). As senator she was the side kick to liberman that was gunning for the video game industry (leading the "family values" crusade) and forced them to set up the esrb. I'm sure she has had other antics, but I don't really watch her.

thanks Jugg, I wasn't sure where he was a comin' from... now it makes a lot more sense to me

My tirade was triggered by watching enough antirepublican remarks. Since there are really only two parties in this country that anyone can vote for (due to a rigged system) it isn't a stretch of the imagination for me to figure out what is implied: republicans = evil, democrats = can do no wrong. Truth be told, I hate them both, but the promise of lesser government that republicans pay lip service to does have me usually look more closely at their candidate. However, that doesn't mean I'm going to automatically vote for them.

What really irritated me here is it seems that everyone's running around saying how this administration has given this country a black eye in the view of the world as if they're the first one to do it. Truth is that every administration for the last fourty+ years has screwed up at least once or more.

Want a list?
Kennedy: bay of pigs, Marilyn Monroe, vietnam
LBJ: vietnam
Nixon: vietnam, watergate
Ford: vietnam, pardoning Nixon, trouble walking in straight lines or leaving aircraft
Carter: sank our economy, let a bunch of kids in Iran take our guys hostage for more than a year and bungled a rescue attempt due to the economic cutbacks (the airfilters in the helicopters were so crappy that they clogged and crashed).
Reagan: Iran Contra, scared the hell out of the world by talking armageddon to every world leader, wife consulted astrologers (but money flowed everywhere and he caused the soviets to collapse so we forgive him).
Bush (I): Quale, puked in the japanese prime ministers lap, raised taxes after saying he wouldn't which screwed the economy.
Clinton: do we even have to spell out the list here? It's rather lengthy and includes: Gore, Somalia, nut jobs in the cabinet, a cruise missile hitting an aspirin factory, and a lot of other things that we wish we could forget.
Bush (II): Forget it.

The guy in office now might not be a saint, but he wasn't the first to screw up and simply attributing all evil to a single party isn't honest so why should we be hanging our heads so low? because the media tells us so? Here's a thought: lets not!

Politics is dirty, ugly, and yields some rather stupid results (anyone look at Libya lately?). No one hears about the rest of the worlds error that much (did we all not hear that the French backed out of their commitment to send a peace keeping force to lebanon?) because we seem to be more willing than most to try to help everywhere we can, but that can lead us to make some serious missteps that become public. The sad part of all that is we reap that criticism because we preach from the moral high ground, but if a country known for murder and torture committed far more egregerious crimes no one would bat an eyelash because that is what everyone expected. Come on fellas (and ladies) lets have some semblance of pride in this country and what it stands for because even at our worst (and craziest) we're still better a better place to be (and do business with) than some of the other regimes on the block.

Like I said in my prior post (or actually a little more bluntly here): to hell with the partys! Lets start looking at the people. After all this time Kennedy should've gotten the axe for his share of escapades while in congress, but people just won't part with him because of the party he represents. Stevens is another turd that needs to be flushed too.

I would also like to point out that attributing the solution to our problems is to simply throw one party into complete power completely bastardizes our democracy. The reason why is that it almost assures that no debate will occur on any issue. One party simply gets to steam roll its solution forward and the other can throw rocks at them until it's their time to be in the drivers seat. How'd this become a sane idea?

Here's a better one (or two): have one party control the senate and the other control the house (at the least it'll stop crap from being steam rolled, at the most they'll have to debate each others thoughts). A better idea would be to get more third parties in the loop, but that will never happen.

Rational=She is the career politician type placed into office in a state where she did nothing other than shop in prior to that.

Irrational=I think she is a cunt...

That's enough politics for me, Let's talk religion...just kidding ;-)

Have a Happy New year!

no it is just that the reps were in complete power and they are the ones fucking up right now so they are the ones taking the heat...

the less gov't by the reps is laughable, they want to control every americans morals to conform to the same as theirs, and well look what they have done to the US bank account lately... everybody bitches that the dems wanna take away their money but at least they tell you up front and don't just piss it away with nobody checking whats going where... both parties do pretty much the same shit, they just have all us citizens fighting over which party is the best instead of the real issues that we should care about and then we end up with bad politicians with way too much power... i'm with you all the way that our system is a mess and doesn't work for the good of the people


I would like to see Rudy J take office and fix the fuckin mess that his party has done the last 6 yrs or so

is anybody else really, really, really pissed the the dems along with dubya are gonna give every illegal immigrant here citizenship, and let millions more flood in, they are pouring into my state as I type this and nobody is doing a fucking thing about |banghead|

NO NO NO Kinky. This guy does have his shit together but if you think the current leaders are bad you have seen nothing. If not for 911 this guy would have gone down as the mayor who cleaned up NYC? Not really. I mean yeah you can walk 42nd now and not be bothered witht he crackheads or pushersand homeless. But I remember thinking one time while in the city. Where the hell did he put all the homeless? Who knows maybe he sent them to Vegas or Cali. They did go away tho. But as adult WM's he is the last guy we want in office. If anyone remembers he put such a crackdown on all the whores and strip clubs that it was near impossible to do either. The clubs that did stick around had to find spots that no one wanted to go to cause before you got your car alarm on it was stolen already. They also passed that great law that you had to have 60% of your business serve food. Now when you go in the darn places all you smell is shitty chicken wings, mixed with stale beer, douche and baby wipes. At least when you could smoke in those places, that smell covered everything.

I think Rudy would be like anyone else who got in office and thought they could change things. Once they meet the real power brokers and get pulled into the silent meetings about will an will not change they see they are fighting a lost cause. Then what do you do? Well very rare people might try and fight it to make a change. But once they see they can make big bank if they play by the rules, they weigh the odds of them changing anything for the future and open a new bank account.

Honestly I would like to see Ross the Boss go back in. He is to old now but when he was running I knew everyone was freaking out cause he would not say how he was going to fix any of the issues. But he was speaking from a business man view. You can't say you are going to fix something if you don't have the whole picture in front of you. Beside if anyone remembers he was the one saying that NAFTA would be a bad thing in the long run. But everyone listened to the current boss thinking it was a great idea. Now everyone is pissed that when they call customer service or customer support they hear someone from India trying to pass themselves off as a guy named Mike. Not to mention that the Dems want to try and bring the jobs back to the USA now when they were the ones who gave them away.

The whole system is just fucked up. I for one look forward to one thing that is 100% for sure this year. I will have Jack Daniels in my coke every night..
Enjoy the holiday time for shower and a drunken night.

Please spell it out and get your facts straight.

Gore, he got 1,000,000 more votes the Dubya in 2000.
Somalia - Who's daddy sent the troops there when he had less the 45 days left in office. Remember where else he sent troops?
The cruise missile didn't hit the Chinese Embassy.

Yes all Presidents make mistakes but you can't play that game with Dubya. He's made far more and ones that can NOT be repaired easily and maybe never. Dude, we went to war with a country that was no threat to us and was an enemy of Iran and OBL. He's doubled the debt and the growth in the economy will never catch up at the current rate. He's legalized torture.

You want to whine about silly stuff like Jesse having sex and that's your point. Get a life.

BTW - How about Cheney's secret meetings and how much have they cost the USA?

Read your own fucking posts and figure out why I don't like and KNEW I wouldn't. Try and stay on topic for once, ya douche.

Are you dragging my posting on the Ford topic into this because calling me a "douche" isn't exactly enlightening me. BTW- You'll note that I haven't called anyone any names in any of my postings because arguing a point is one thing, name calling is something else.

Ok...

Based on whose numbers? The people he sent to "recount" the votes? There's something wrong when a side with a vested interest in the outcome who dispatches people on his behalf that also have a vested interest in seeing their guy get in office is given more credibility than the system that never seemingly had any criticism until that point in time.

Not that I don't have complete faith in the honesty and integrity of everything that transpired, but if you'll recall Gore tried rather hard to discount legimate overseas absentee ballots using alot of technicality ploys. The vast majority of those ballots were from service members serving overseas. Tell me that someone wasn't desperately trying to supress some votes in that maneuver.

Should we have a pitty party for every president that rolls into office who is now in the drivers seat to handle the difficult decisions of his predecessor? That's like saying every incoming CEO of every company should be facing a clean slate when they get into office and not facing any problems from his predecessor. Life doesn't stand still and our international obligations can't either (bear in mind that our troops were deployed as part of a UN force). What is a problem in my mind was the subsequent mismanagement of our forces under the Clinton leadership.

If you talking about GB I then yeah, Iraq, but after Sadam made a gigantic grab at the worlds oil supply by annexing Kuwait (which lead to a U.N. resolution that permitted the coalition invasion). I also distinctly remember seeing a bunch of bodies swinging in Kuwait (from cranes and other structures) courtesy of the Iraqi forces and how American civilians were held captive (and displayed sitting next to Sadam on CNN).


I wasn't referencing that incident. I was referencing how Clinton blew up a aspirin factory in Africa (which had neither tactical nor strategic value to anyone and which we subsequently wound up paying the owner for). However, if you want to discuss the Chinese embassy bombing then I would like to know how you are arriving at the conclusion that seemingly nothing happened to the Chinese Embassy (or am I reading what you wrote wrong)? A quick search of news.google.com shows that the Chinese embassy in Belgrade was indeed hit in 1999. Hell, here's even one of the articles: http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial...31/1011532.asp

I don't see the world cuddling up to Kim Jong Il, Khadafi, or Castro because of what GWB has done. Do those countries even know the meaning of the words "humanitarian program"? Where was there outreach when that sunami hit a few years back?

Sadam only had bounties on our aircraft for when the flew over the no fly zone. The fact that he was an enemy of Iran is not really relevant since the middle east has a saying "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." The facts the lead us to our invasion have been since proven to be incorrect, but to think that Sadam would have never partnered up with someone to get us is unrealistic. He might have been caged, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have easilly provided money, material support, and training to others who weren't.

Ever hear that past results don't necessarilly guarantee future results? Saying that something can't happen financially because of the way it was in the past is ludicrious. 100 years ago the financial and technological market were no where near as developed as the currently are. The vast majority of people were still in horse and buggies. To project that our war time expenditures will never be caught up with because no one here has the present vision of how it can be done doesn't mean that it can't.

Torture? You mean that our governments current information extraction policy using only mind fuck methods such as keeping people awake for hours on end, maybe humiliating them even, an occasional trip to a dunk tank, and scaring the holy hell out of them (all of which are probably less severe than the average college hazing ritual and none of which have physical dismemberment involved) fall into the same category as acid baths, beatings, breaking bones, using hot objects, and decapitation? How so? Here's a good page that's a bit more verbose on that thought (not affiliated with me): http://bushwacker.net/diversions/jokes/Patton.htm
What should be doing instead to get information from captured persons? Feed them ice cream, hand them a play boy, have a prostitute suck them off, and whisper pretty please in their ears?

Fact is our country is one of the few countries that if we capture you during war we'll still make sure that you get three meals a day. If you try to hunger strike we'll even stick a tube in you to make certain you get three meals a day. If you've been watching the news you'll even see that we have the decency to prosecute our OWN troops for rape and murder when they step out of line. Here's a nifty factoid: when the Abu Graib scandal broke it took may three months before the trial got under way, but it took more than a year for the trial of the soldier who tossed a grenade in to the command tent to start.

...

There is an enormous difference between what Cheney and Hillary spent money on. Hillary spent loads of money on a committee that never even left their desks in the U.S. and wound up accomplishing nothing. Cheney, on the other hand, managed to funnel money in a civilian run corporation that is sending civilians in to places where there is gun fire, mortar fire, explosions, and decapitations every day. Now if I were a civilan heading to one of those places I sure would hell want my pockets lined with cash or I'm not leaving home and, unlike, military soldiers there's no recourse for the company to take against those people who stayed at home. That's a hard lesson that the U.S. military learned when the shit hit the fan initially: a lot of those civilians did stay home. You may not like the amount of money being spent on those civilians, but that's the only way they're being pursaded to go over there.

not to interrupt your diatribe above (the answer to SirMoby's post) but if you have bothered to read anything at all on this particular board is that if you say stupid things.. you'll get tagged.. i'd say "douche" is one of UW's calmer phrases.


on another note, Juggs, jr....you won't win. So find a better way to invest your time rather than trotting out these tired old 'statements' ...there's nothing new here sooo uh move along.

Is it? Wouldn't have known that. Why not tell me that the color red is not blue? Silly republican fool.

RamCharger -
The facts you haven't searched for, but should have, should lead you to another conclusion.
I want to triple my stocks and net worth in two years
Cheney - "Hey, let's start a war, we can take it off the top!!"
"Hey, George, want a piece of this No Bid Action??"
"All you have to do is invade this country and..."

No, but at least Clinton new about Al Qaeda from the Real GB and, though unsuccesfully, tried to do something about it. Clinton Did tell Bush about them. Maybe it's just me, but if I took over a large corportation, I'd want to know exactly what the hell is going on.
Oh wait, you seemed to have glossed over This Little Gem

Now we are stuck in a convoluted fuck up beyond all imagination. Bush, without congressional approval, approved this operation.
Name ONE other person that could, or should be held responsible?

So what's left?
Saddam is dead, Iraq is in a civil war, as far as the rest of the planet is concerned, we're responsible.
So what should be our next course of action??
Seriously, what do you think we should be doing? (the majority of the 6+ Billion on the planet think we fucked up beyond what we can repair - so it matters little what we think)

I don't normally argue politics, but you seem to be like just my brother, so I'll hop in on this one. (though my brother and I agree not to talk about anything political now - my mom can't stand it)

btw - UW doesn't like you because you come off as an arrogant ass. He takes delight in castrating those suffering from that affliction. Just thought you might like to know :)

Dubya got 50,000,000 votes and Gore got 51,000,000 votes. That's what was written in the fact books. That wasn't based on recount numbers that was based on final numbers. You should really learn a little about a subject before you post. ;)

GB sent troops to 2 countries after he lost and Iraq wasn't one of them (I only asked to see if you knew anything about that period of time and you should twice that you don't). He sent the troops to screw the next guy. Just like congress not doing their job and voting on all the spending bills this past term. They lost, they'll get their pension so why should they do a good job when they can make it difficult for the winners? Isn't that exactly what they did? Isn't that exactly what Daddy B did?

It's obvious that you don't know your history but now it seems you don't know current affairs either.

I won't bother to read or comment on the rest of your post. I'm sure it's as off base as what you've already posted.

No hard feelings. Just because you don't know shit about the past decade or current affairs doesn't mean you don't have a lot to offer a webmaster board :)

After reading the past few messages I see that it has seemingly become the avowed intent of most people here to change what was once a civil discussion into a pissing contest laden with personal insults and complete rudeness (way to demonstrate your maturity level everyone). That said I am withdrawing from further participation in this thread (no sense in me participating in someones mindless insult game when I have more redeeming things in life that I could be doing). Good day.