If two people want to beat each other senseless with baseball bats that is up to them as long as it is consensual. Doesn't matter if it is two men, two woman, or a woman and a man, just matters that it is consensual. Boxing is legal and advertised on TV. Personally I think it is disgusting and choose not to watch it but what the hell do I know.

The other night I was watching this show on HBO where people were doing extreme body modifications including paying someone to slice open your skin with nothing for the pain in order to scar themselves. Personally I think paying some dude to take a scalpel and make incisions into your face in order to scar you is far worse then someone that gets off being punched during sex.

How do you know these sex acts are real? Have you seen them? Do you know someone who regularly knocks their partner out during sex? Do you know someone who has punched a woman in the eye after a blowjob, just so he can admire the pretty colours of the bruise?

I do not think what I'm saying is sexist at all. As I said, I've spoken with a woman who was into all sorts of violent (consensual) stuff, and if she wants to do that it's fine, I'm not denying her freedom or saying she shouldn't do it.

What I am saying is that I personally find it hard to put myself in the place of a woman who would enjoy *non consensual violent sex*, and that I find the idea of that kind of sex to be disturbing.

There's a difference between personally finding something disturbing and saying that it is wrong. It's my right to find things disturbing.

And as I said before, if you read that list of "disturbing sex acts" you would see that they are written from a male point of view, and they're all about being cruel to a woman WITHOUT HER CONSENT, for the sole purpose of providing the man with pleasure.

That is completely different from consensual masochistic acts, which, I will repeat, I do not have a problem with (even if they're not my bag).

I'm not sure where to begin with this. There's a scale now? And again, how do you know?

And are you seriously saying that what I've written about this is somehow worse than the shit on that list?

That me saying that I think our hypothetical woman that enjoys being beaten and raped is somehow going to be offended that I find her behaviour disturbing.

And yes, beaten and raped, because, when I think about this, that's what this conversation is about. It's NOT about consensual masochism, it's about dangerous, cruel, nasty violence and rape.

Maybe I misread something but I thought we are talking about consensual acts.

I really didn't expect this when I asked what a Donkey Punch was. Of course whatever adults want to do to eachother is fine. If a man wants to get kicked in the balls while he dances in a dress and the woman likes to do it, what the hell do I care.

Well, Ecchi seems to be arguing that I am saying consensual masochism is wrong and that wasn't my point at all.

Oh ok, I knew that you were talking about consensual masochism. :)

Jim I've known men actually into being crossed dressed and kicked in the balls. In fact I did some of the kicking. But I don't remember any dancing going on other then the man's happy dance.

grandmascrotum -RE"How do you know these sex acts are real?" - OK, not every single one, but most of them. When I had a "bricks and mortar" business selling videos, lingerie, costumes, and "roll play" items I spent a lot of time with my customers discussing their turn ons (basically, if I did not have other customers waiting, and I found a customer willing to talk about it (surprisingly more would talk about it than refused) I would ask them outright about their sexual turn-ons, it both helped as "customer research" and also made the customers think that I was trying to please them, plus talking made them think of me as a friend, so more liable to come back). Believe me, some of the things the women said they liked were even worse than the things you have read here.

RE : "There's a difference between personally finding something disturbing and saying that it is wrong. It's my right to find things disturbing." Yes but that right does not include the right to cause other's suffering by shouting that belief from the rooftops. For example, you are Australian, and I could have furthered my point about sexism my saying that every Australian women I have spoken to over here on the subject has said that they preferred English men to Australian men because All Australian men are so sexist, but I didn't, because I did not think it was an appropriate thing to say here.

RE : "There's a difference between personally finding something disturbing and saying that it is wrong." My point entirely, but your (and you are not alone in this) earlier posts did the latter.

RE : your comments on my statement "And as to true cruelty to women, mental cruelty is a lot worse than physical cruelty." I was going by articles written by doctors, psychiatrists, and people who run shelters for abused women. All three groups are more qualified in this field than either of us, and yes they do say that mental cruelty is a lot worse than physical cruelty.

RE:"And are you seriously saying that what I've written about this is somehow worse than the shit on that list?" Yes, but don't take my word on it, look up what the experts say

RE: "That me saying that I think our hypothetical woman that enjoys being beaten and raped is somehow going to be offended that I find her behaviour disturbing." It is not offending her that is the problem, it is the fact that you are denigrating her (difficult to explain, again read what the experts say, they can explain it better than me).

Cleo - We were, the non consensual stuff only came up when I used a quote from grandmascrotum and they (understandably) wanted to defend the post.

RE : "I really didn't expect this when I asked what a Donkey Punch was." That is the glory of a notice board, you never know where it leads. I am a little too wound up in this argument to enjoy this thread (does it show?) but if it did not involve me, and was on a topic that I did not care so much about, I would probably be enjoying the debate immensely as a lurker, laughing at both sides.

You guts & gals are taking this way too seriously :D

My favorite doesn't translate well in text - it's the Palm Sundae, where you blow your load on the palm of your hand & ask her if she want's a sundae |couch|