After reading this thread, I have a question from a somewhat new submitters standpoint.

I believe it is the responsiblity of submitters to make sure they are on hosting services that are legit and respected within the community. I would not build a brick and mortar business in a horrible neighborhood with drive by shootings and crack houses, and then complain about lack of traffic into my store. Nor would I expect a large shiny store in a well-lit downtown area with plenty of foot traffic to want to be affiliated with me.

It's your business, it is your responsibility.

But I do understand the frustration on the part of honest submitters. :)

My question is this...how does a submitter...especially if they are new to the business...check on a host? I mean, I just stumbled onto Webair, and they have been great. But what if they weren't? How would I have known if they had all kinds of nefarious business practices? Especially since I knew zero about choose an adult host.

I know there is someplace you can go and see if a domain is banned, but is there a place you can see a list of hosts that are frowned upon in the adult community?

Can't you (meaning leading LL and TGP owners) establish some type of database or list of banned hosts, and link to it off your submit page? You wouldn't have to have an appeal process, just a simple listing. IE "Host XYZ banned by Link O Rama on 10/5/04 for hosting of questionable domains" or "Host TER banned by Tommy's on 10/7/03 for hosting redirect sites"

By doing that, you'd be offering a great service to honest webmasters who *want* to make sure they do everything to improve their chance of listings, including making the correct hosting decision. It would also give honest hosts a place to see what is going on on their servers that they might have missed.

Sure, you'd be making the information available to cheaters as well, and that might be a problem. I really don't know what kind of scripts or tools a host has available to keep less desirables from hosting on their servers. So the cheaters might well move to a now-respectable host, and ruin their reputation within the community. Or perhaps the host has every tool available to know these things, and can keep out cheaters.

And I know you guys/gals already have plenty to do. But you can't ban entire hosts often enough for it to be a major drag on your time. You'd just decide to institute the ban, would add it to the community list, and be done with it. No arguements, no why, just a "because I said so, here is the information, use it as you see fit" type of deal.

Just a thought or two from my not-awake-mind, and one that sympathises with both the owners, and the legit submitters.

My domen baned too! Tath's very kind of you! |angry|
I have stopped submit to some linksadmin LLs.

If a newbie has got that far that he want to submit to LL's and found LL's to submit, then it's probably very likely that he has found some webmaster boards.
Doing some research on the host you are looking into on couple of the biggest boards will give you a pretty good idea on who you are about to deal with.
If they don't find any good answers, it's just for them to post and ask what people think about hosting XYZ :)

This has been a particularly interesting thread, & I just had to get my 2 newbie cents in...

I found my hosting by looking at the recommendations from a respected board, and seeing which long time posters used that particular hosting service. It's easy to get good advice if you make sure you're getting it from trusted sources.

To me this is a business, and with any business, it is your responsibility to research it enough to make it work for you.

There is enough of an aura of "illegitimacy" about this business without others bringing it down even more, and honest people are just trying to make a living.

I don't think there is a specific place, but a lot of times the LL owners will place in their rules if a specific host is banned and will never stand a chance to be listed.

The biggest problem really comes down to organized groups of people who actively attempt to work to intentionally defraud link sites in order to obtain maximum traffic directly to their sponsors (or scams, depending on the person).

Even faced with the banning of a host, they will move elsewhere and do it again.

We cannot stop them from trying - we can just make it hard to do business, and make it hard for those hosts to stay in business when their honest clients leave them and move to cleaner hosting.

Alex

Without question my workload has decreased and in short I don't have to deal with cheaters, multi submitters, idiots, or fools at all.

Some people keep asking why I haven't opened up submissions again to the public... and this thread is the best argument.


Selena, we are not going to supply a lot of that information in public, as it only tells the "cheats" what we are up to. In order to stay on top of them we need to keep many things between ourselves.


Tommy is right when he says hosts are to blame for a lot of the crap. Hosts taking responsibility for the people they host breaking their own AUP/T+C, and not going outof their way to help cheats would be the simplest and quickest solution to all these problems.

There are plenty of hosts that aren't russian or eastern european, that can -and will - get themsleves banned before to long.

Webair is a decent host... BUT have a look at the "stolen domain" threads, or the big SE spammer s threads and see where the domains in question are hosted?

Conepuppy/Cyberwurx now hosts a number of domains stolen from legit webmasters, and a number of large spammers... yet their dont bother answering their abuse emails?

No host is without scammers... it is how they deal with them that is the thing that separates them from the "good" hosts...

DD

Maybe you should read this thread first
http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/...threadid=11604

Reading this thread gives me an uncontrolable urge to post on non-english speaking boards :D

You too? I thought it was just me ;)

I would like to make it ABSOLUTLY clear when we are talking about cheaters

we are talking about viruses and spyware mostly trojans and of course geo dialers

this is not about crappy submits or 4 ads on a page or consoles
or removing recips or any of that small time bullshit

this stuff fucks up computers and when a surfer gets a virus from a tgp or LL they are never going back there

I am so glad for SP2 for Windows XP since it blocks this shit, and you can automatically tell that someone is trying to download stuff to your computer. You don't have to go through that pop up hell anymore trying to get the crap to close!

TO GG If YOU baned my domans, may I delete your recip links on all my free sites? What for to have your links on cheater host?

He's asleep for the next several hours, but when he does get to the board he will probably say "Sure go ahead". :D

Yes, you can extract all connections to me if you you want k.

Вс******** в********ши м********м******** при****************д****************ж********т к ****************м

I don't understand what is "if you you want k."
I do it only, after you delete my sites.

Good Morning Sirs

I’m a CEO of hqhost hosting company. Will reply everyone and try to explain our company’s point of view. Please strive to read this letter up to its end and to give a sound reply.

As it was mentioned before our company is the largest one in Russian market segment. Main activity direction is a cooperation with russian customers but in spite of it there is a great number of foreign ones among them. Moreover our company is an owner of some more Hosting brands developing separately from hqhost. Our offices are located in three countries. Staff total number consists 30 persons. But along with capacity extension, decrease in price, support updating and other positive growth moments there are some negative ones. During last three years I’ve been regularly getting a large amount of complaints as for the sites content located on our servers. Someone cheats someone, someone starts to mail spam, someone locates banned material, someone installs trojans, someone cheats traffic and so on. It’s a negative growth side. The more growth is the more number of those who wish to earn money without any additional effort is. In other words the more ranges are the more variety of chaters is. Would like to note all our customers have identical nameservers. It means from the very beginning we were dependent on customers negative influence. It was our fundamental position. We have never created hundreds of DNS servers and at the same time have never strived to minimize cheaters visibility and keep them back in great quantity of nameservers and brands.

Maybe our trustfulness is our fault. But I don’t think so.

Dear Sirs,
Our conditions contain a ban at some particular things according to US laws. We undeviatingly obey them and react in case of some troubles emergence during one hour!!! I’D LIKE TO EMPHISIZE IT! Only a few US companies may boast of such a lawfullness. Most of serious US companies mail auto responds such as “bla bla bla we’re so busy and don’t disturb us”. I have a great experience of dealing with such negligent companies. I’ve never got any letter from dear GG, Tommy, Cleo. It’s quite possible I don’t remember exactly but probably there were no complaints from you. You know it’s so easy to yell you confront with a great variety of cheaters all the time; it’s so simple to blame someone for your personal fault. Is it so difficult for you to write a letter or to communicate by ICQ or to delete those things you consider as illegal ones? If some day you’ll have a deal with us further we’ll certainly settle all problems together.

Recently some customers have got into touch with me. They’ve said have been honestly working for many years; have been spending money for content, design, support/promotion. They ‘re consider you ‘re their business partners. Neither employers nor the “milch cow” but exactly your partners! They install links on your lists at the same time increasing your SE rating in this way. They’re making your surfers more loyal prompting them to use your service time and again. Certainly I talk about honest webmasters.

I understand all these actions are only for money earning. Unfortunately nowadays money is the only value for most people. But I think it’s absolutely wrong position. Many of your webmasters consider you are if not a friend but your business partner then. You’ve simply outraged their attitude and work. Your motivation was: “it’s my business so I’m a unique master of all the situation”. Maybe my mentality doesn’t allow me to understand the actual state of affairs; maybe my previous business experience testifies it’s a some kind of nonsense. It’s quite difficult to give a simple answer. One thing is clear to me: your behavior doesn’t honour you.

Now I’d like to discuss struggle methods with different kinds of cheaters; which way you can be saved from them in. Would like to notify the following: hosting ban, IP range ban, domains registrar ban, outgoing Ip and mail ban – all these methods are not productive at all. It means you spend time at ban installation but next day the same people compel you to do the same thing. You should buy domain. Is it a real problem nowadays? You should buy new hosting, new IP, proxy or VPN. Is it a great problem for you? Many of cheaters act in this way.
You’ll never settle your problem by such wrong methods. The only possible result will be the following: their troubles which will not pay your personal damages.
I’d like to emphasize: using unprodactive ban methods you are simply saved from some quantity of loyal webmasters. In other words many of honest masters have just gave up on your LL. Many of them will find a new hosting (it’s quite possible in our company – will choose new brand).
But I’m absolutely sure: none of cheaters will be done away. All of them will just remove to other unoccupied IP addresses. My advices are very accessible in realization. You can settle 99,9% of your problems by them.

1. Put telephone number in partners registration form. After registration dial this number and ask is there such a person really.
2. Put data about Credit Card in partner registration form. It may be start up fee or something else. $3-$5 for partner identification by credit card. 3. Two previous items can’t guarantee you a full satisfaction from your partner content and his methods of work. So you should to look through some part of sites. But their number will be rather lesser.

Moreover we can be your partners and can help you to expose cheaters. Towards this end you may use our hardware. Anyway we’re ready to offer you our support and profitable cooperation.

Many people have said hosting company is personally responsible for its customers. It’s quite possible in some separate cases but unfortunately it’s quite hard to realize. It takes a great number of server resourses to scan, for example, 80 G html at one word presence. The more banned words are the more server load is. But there is some thing to do in such a situation. It’s a technical way which we’ll strive to launch. It will be our share for common business.

I've heard only favourable reports about you. I'm sure we can settle any problem together. Hope some day when you'll see
ns0.hqhost.net
ns1.hqhost.net
You won't check galleries at all but will put in your list straight away.

All URL appeared in this topic will be tested at legality


Thank You

I'm sorry but I didn't bother reading your post since I'm not a Sir and your post started off with "Good Morning Sirs".

Maybe now you would like to do a post for the female webmasters?



******** д********в**************************************** ув********р**************** ********т******** эт******** **************** д********************************т ********ик********к**************** ********увств******** к********к р**************** к********к к****************д********
в******** в********в********шив****************т******** ********т********-т******** **************** ********************************ийск********м ************************к******** д**************** м************************ пр****************ит********т********.

Tornado

Sounds like load of horse shit to me.

Sorry Cleo :(
I will remember it.

Tornado let me ask you this when was the last time you looked to see what kind of domains you are hosting ?

MrMaryLou,
unfortunately I havn't enough time to look through thousands and thousands domains :(
But this is my fault, maybe.. only my fault.
rape, incest and various form of traffic cheat absolutely prohibit by our tos. So I need a time to settle the problem.

I do not make any I understand this thread on all

DD

Буд********т р********пс********м и кр********в********см********ш****************и********м ф****************т****************ии к********к р**************** к********к ****************ш ****************пр********т ф****************т****************ии
HQHost

Sorry madam
I can't translate it at all.
english or german please..

Tornado

Viele Lügen, die ich sehe, wie jetzt Sie zu viele stupids sind. Wenn Völker zusammen arbeiten wollen, mehr sollte sie. Viele Völker sind ehrlicher als auf Ihrem dummen Gastgeber!

I don't speak or read Russian either but I do know how to run English through a translator to come up with what is probably really bad Russian that makes very little sense just like the Russian webmasters do to come up with really bad English that makes very little sense.



How is it that free hosts can police their servers and a paid host can't?

How hard is it to run a bot on the domains that you host looking for illegal domains names and viruses?

Damn, this is a long thread. I was away all weekend and am not going to read it all.

HQ Host is full of cheaters and even worse, CP domains, animal domains, and inc*st domains. If you are already submitting to me then you are fine. If you are new and I see HQ Host, forget it!

My TGPs take no HQHost domains, period.

Entschuldigen sie bitte,
Aber Ich kann nicht verstehen was Sie hier geschriben haben. Sie sprechen vielleicht irgend velcher Dialekt oder Hollandisch. Oder sie versuchen als Cleo ubersetzer benutzen.

Seien sie bitte korrekt und sprechen Wir lieber Englisch.

Hmmm,
English it is then.
So is HQHost going to clean up its act ASAP or is it going to wait until enough of its clients leave that it hurts them financially?

As far as the cheats going to another host all I can say is that there is plenty of room on our ban lists.

have you ever seen a hosting company get real big and like a poped bubble get real small

wanna know one of the reasons that happens

cheaters !!!
A host gets a lot of cheaters using their service.
they are getting listed everywhere etc etc.
slowly their domains and ip ranges get blacklisted,
the cheaters ask for new ips and the host gives it to them.
now TGP owners see them with new ips so they start blacklisting name servers.

with no other choice the cheaters move to another host.

the hosts ips remains blacklisted
Legit Clients cannot operate there, Cheaters cannot operate there
The company bubble bursts


this will - is starting to happen to HQ Host !!!!!

they are offering us nothin, All they are saying is its not our fault, we will do nothing about it, except cash the checks

A very Important point I would like to make
you might be hosted at HQ Host and you might be getting listed at 7 tgps and LLs and your making a few k each month and your thinking this aint so bad !!!

but I bet if you were hosted at Cone Puppy you would get listed on 50 tgps and might be making 20k a month


Tornado, you and your company and I am sorry to say your clients days are numbered

Cleo,
Nobody can settle problem with cheaters on one's own. Certainly it's quite possible to discover illegal words such as (rape, ince*st, pre*teen...) but under extension of such words list server load will increase with a progression. Such a situation is unacceptable too. we can trace banned words at stage of data load into server. But anyway in this case there is a loophole for cheaters as they can use their scripts for content download.
We are able to launch bot which will analize domain names. In case there will be negative component inside of their body our person will look through content by hand (such a process is very serious and hard but we're ready to do it).

irresistible problem of content as such remains. It's impossible to analize graphical objects technically. So it's the only way - to rely on your assistance.

Virus test? It's quite hard to do it for technical reason. First of all it's necessary to have some basis, signatures, suspect files. Anyway total searching of bad code will load host strongly.
Everyone criticizes hosting but noone says which way to settle this problem in. Does it matter nothing for you if the same cheaters will work from other hosts in a week?

Please understand the main thing: this problem settlement within hqhost is favorable for you mainly. Let's suppose hosting will lose 50 mbs. But by the highest standarts it's a real trifle. But the problem won't be settled at all. Of course I understand some customers compromise all manager staff and brand as a whole. But hosting ban is not a way from this situation. Cause in fact it's our common problem.

I'm ready to help you with this problem as a representative of the first-rate Russian market company.

Tornado - if I go to a restaurant & order a Fruit Cocktail & 9 times out of 10 the waiter hits me in the head with a mallet, I'd probably stop ordering Fruit Cocktails.

If I'm reviewing sites & 9 times out of 10 they are on one of the hosts mentioned in this thread, well, I'm gonna stop listing sites from those hosts.

You're also only getting input from one side of this & since they are your paying customers, you're of course going to back them. If you really want to see both sides of this, go open up a link list or tgp, review 200-300 sites a day, decline 50-75% of them because they don't fit the rules that you have in place (the rules that you asked the submitters to read before they submitted) Waste time day in & day out doing this for a year. Then come back & tell us what we should do.

The long & short of it is that you really have no say in who any of us to business with & vice versa.

Tommy, our business is not hosting for link lists only.
Daily we are growing more and more. Sometimes different problems appear, but we win authority by settlement of each new one. Hope we'll settle this one too.

Thank You

yeah yeah yeah

Tornado: your host is mainly made up of theives and cheaters

mostly I would say email spamers and tgp cheaters

I have 17 emails right now in my inbox from tgp owners asking for your ip ranges

I have also got several more private messages and emails of tgp owners asking me to stop giving out informatin on this board
about ip blacklisting

if this had little effect on your buisness you wouldnt be here trying to defend your host

WEBMASTERS that use this host it is in your companys best interst to move

Tornado

There are plenty of easy and cheap scripts to block unwanted files from being FTP'd onto a server. Who are you trying to bullshit?

Greenguy, I’m absolutely agree with you. But the problem is in following: in case you’ll interrupt drinking Fruit Cocktails you’ll be the first one who will die from the thirst.

The problem matter isn’t in loss of some customers dozens but in such a case they will continue to fuck you again and again.

Unfortunately we didn’t control Link Lists cheaters number as for our great company ranges. It’s not only our fault, but yours too. But we’ll settle this problem (at least some part of it which may be settled locally). Promise!

Anyway I don’t want to hold debate further. As I’ve said earlier the given problem isn’t settled basically!!! Cause the cheaters migrate together with honest masters. Your problems will be remained. It’s rather difficult to treat patient than to amputate some diseased organ. It’s a fact. Anyhow you Greenguy personally may apply for my help by any problem (technical one or russian community contacts).
my ICQ 130756945

As regards unsound arguments as for us… Tommy, I don’t know you personally. Don’t know who are you in reality. I’m not well-informed about your resources. But I’m sure a person blames somebody without any proof is either a blockhead or a greenhorn. Sorry, don’t pay attention to my words. I don’t want to offend you at all.

Unfortunately I’ve heard about this bulletin board too late. The truth is that I’ve knew about such resources existence only some days ago. Of cause I was informed about TGP cheat but if you could read in Russian you would get to know my personal references as for Russian bord cheat. Unfortunately you don’t know me at all. So you permit yourself such words.

Surfn, Matter of fact is “unwanted files” is rather vague concept. It’s nearly impossible to expose cheater without any external assistance. In case you have some certain proposals as for cheaters struggle I’m ready to our cooperation.

I would say by what you just posted you already have offended him and if I were him Id go ahead and give those IP number blocks to the major TGP owners - especially since his site (Tommys Bookmarks - you might have heard of it) is one of the largest in the world

oh :(
Sorry man.
Yes I know about Tommys Bookmarks. But my main job is webhosting and local ISP.

Tommy, Of cause you have right to think so..
In case you'll give me a chance to improve the problem , I'll be very thankful...