I should also mentioned that I've had extremely generous offers from other webmasters. These however came to me after I found NetGoonie. Not wanting to seem ungrateful or rude to anyone, I'm going to see NetGoonie's proposal, and then consider that and my other options presented by some very generous individuals (you know who you are ... not saying just incase they don't want me to).

Okay, that's it...whip em out and get ready to dangle :D

No worries at all Kristian. This whole thread is about ideas and personal experiences. If you were to try to incorporate them all, doubt you'd ever get anything done! Besides, I'm SURE you'll get a lot of that personal satisfaction out of watching the traffic/revenue climb as well |thumb

Frankly, I still look at FPP and think it looks way too amateurish and desperately needs a redesign. And I very well may do so at some point (as my own personal satisfaction with traffic/revenue climbs), but I did get give the ugly baby 'birth'...lol.

By the way...having fun yet???

Oh balls!!!! |couch|

In my humble opinion I'd be worried about changing FPP. It's a great site and if it's no broken, well you know the rest. What I like most about it is I would surf it as a surfer. I can honestly not say that about 95% of sites nowadays.

Having lots of fun for the first time in months. I decided on doing this a while ago. Time was just a problem. I've got my almost-wife running software for me and some online labor doing the rest. Frees up most of my time for this which is great.

Well great apart from getting me nuts strangled! :D

Traffic Trade Scripts
 

What is the consenus about trade scripts for link lists? Growing a tgp, it would be commonplace. Greenguy uses one on LOR (coupled with hard link trades). I notice most LLs seem to just go with hardlinks unless I am missing something (most likely!).

Thanks, but as many of us are...I'm my own worst critic |dizzy|

Though I noticed last night Google has been playing with things again. PR jumped to 5 on several of my categories...doesnt' equate to traffic, but sure looks purdy on the tool bar :D

Wow! Online labor that actually works?! Hell, I may have to pick your brain on that one! Had a very poor experience with outsourcing some work last year.

Don't worry...I'll be gentle with em |jester|

Added: Regarding handling trades. I do everything with simple php includes pulling a set of txt files that are easy to open in mass...edit...upload...voila'. Can add a complete set of trades in about 30 minutes across all categories. All hard links of course.

Doesn't get much better than pr5 for adult, congrats!!

You could check out gene over at webmasterlabor(dot)com. I've only ever hear good things and his firm is at the top. If you're looking for reviewers though then you're probably best off here. Last time I heard we'd cloned 18 MMLs. :D I have some guys I use here in Wales but they do it mainly as a favor and are not really in the trade. Went to school with the owner.

Will look into your way of trading. Cheers!

That's exactly what I do on xratedtv. All hard links, and all pulled from external text files. It does make link trades pretty easy.

Now, while I suggest that as a good way to get the result, I wish there was a better way.

So I'm going to add this question to your search for the right script(s) to use:

Do any of the Link List scripts have a "hard link trades" section of the admin, or a plug-in or module, where you can enter the info on your hard link trades and everything else is handled automatically when your pages update?


Simon

Simon -- I'm interested to know this too. If I can I will post answers today. :)

Design Proposal : Questions & Answers
 

With kind permission from NetGoonie, I'm posting the information below.

I might use a designer for this project. NetGoonie, with experience in designing link lists, has offered to create a design proposal for my project. In order to do so, he emailed me 17 questions. Based on my answers, his feel for my needs and his own experience, he intends to reply with a proposal for designing MovieLinkList.com.

His prices and ideas will ultimately help make up my mind.

1. What script will you be using?

The choice I make will be dependant on three main factors : features (both user-side, webmaster-side, admin-side), stability of company (to ensure future updates to keep me ahead of technology), and support. Gossamer Threads would be my first choice, based on my three factors. However, now that you have shown me PowerSeek, I would consider it too. I like the functionality and the layout possibilities. What puts me off is having never heard of them and not knowing other adult link lists, other than yours, that use them.

2. Is this going to be a link list or more of a link directory?

A link list. I'm not sure of the difference but, since the domain is MovieLinkList.com, I better go with link list. We're talking lor, penisbot, hoes.

3. Are there any specific features you are looking to have in your site outside of the link script?

No, unless you can offer suggestions. I might consider implementing a thumb mgp, porn movie and paysite reviews, a blog, and a forum at a later stage.

4. Are there any other scripts to be part of the site i.e.: Toplist, TGP galleries, etc?

A trade script is a distinct possibility. Growing a tgp, it would be a necessity. I am just researching the possibility of using a trade script. It seems some link lists use them - combined with hard links - and some do not. If I used one, the idea would be to trade traffic with text mgps, while keeping LLs (with lesser traffic) on hardlink trade tables.

An mgp implementation is a possible in the future (using smart thumbs, most likely).

5. Do you have any kind of design concept you are interested in?

Design should be surfer-oriented with no advertising. The site design should have the surfer in mind at all times. How can we make it easy for them to find what they want, how can we deliver that content nicely to them, what will irritate them (remove it), what will the surfers like (add it). So forget about finding ways to make money off them. Make it a surfer-utopia.

6. Any sample web sites you've seen that you like how they were done?

PenisBot.com

Penisbot is designed with the surfer in mind. I like the color and icon-coded links (blue boxes with F, for free sites, for example) that are the right at below the header. Below these you have the category links. Right away a surfer knows how to find what he wants. Great! I also like the size of the links, especially those for today's sites running down the bottom of the entry page. Nice and big. I hate those sites with small links where you have to squint to find the porn. Cannot say enough good about this site. The surfer-functionality, the clean design, the intuitive navigation. Simple genius.

SublimeDirectory.com

Not a link list for free sites, but I like the surfer-functionality. Search bar at the top, a welcoming piece of news, category links down the side. Not as nicely laid out as PenisBot (links too small for a start) but nice and simple.

69TopLinks.com

Your site! I like the use of tables on the entry page (slim, stylish, packed with seo). Like the colors, the gradient bars, the design lines. Aesthically, verr easy on the eyes, stylish, makes me take notice. Don't like the background. As entry pages go, one of the best I've seen. Inside the site, not keen on the heavy advertising. I like the stylish tables, like the intuitive interface. Easy to find what I want. I'd like to see this site combined with the mentioned-elements of PenisBot.com.

7. Do you need content development of any kind (writing, photos...etc)?

No, I can do this myself.

8. Is website optimization, W3C compliancy, important for this site?

I'm not sure. Probably.

9. Do you require any SEO (search engine optimization) and if so, what do you want to achieve with this?

I require the site to be built with basic SEO considerations, but I presume this is standard. Other than that, I will seo myself.

10. Do you need monthly or quarterly Search Engine ranking reports?

No, that's ok.

11. Is there a time frame for this site to be completed and online?

This month. If you're able to get started right away, all the better.

12. Do you need a Branding solution - logo/identity development?

Yes. I'd like to see some samples though beforehand.

13. Do you need banners done and if so, estimated number and type of?

No need for banners. I will do these in html myself.

14. Do you need hosting provider suggestions? **This will be important because there are many hosts that do not allow certain scripts to run.

I have a reliable host : atchihosting.com

15. Do you have a working budget for this project?

Yes, but will appraise all costs judiciously.

16. Will you need ongoing site updates or additions of features or site sections?

Yes. If the site design is successful in my eyes I will certainly want to collaborate in the future - for this and other projects of a related nature. I actually wouldn't consider another designer once I'm happy with the design.

17. Do you have an idea of what content pages you need, i.e.: contact us, banners page, advertising page, splash entry page...etc?

Once the site is designed I can probably complete most pages myself with little effort. The hard part is getting the winning design in the first place.

Aside from the "obvious" pages designated by the script, it would just be an entry page, I think.

If you consider LOR, for instance, you have an entry, main, category pages, submit page, banner page. If you naturally include main, cats, and submit in your design, then the only entra will be entry and banner. I'll do the banner page myself.

I sent you an email about scripts...looks like 3 choices: Xpower links (Similiar to Penisbots), Gossamer, and PowerSeek. I think Kit (Penisbot) will love what you said about their site, actually, its ranks high in my books for functionality, especially with the "icon-coded links" which I think is awesome.

Looks like everyone loves this thread, keep it up :)

Am just chewing over the pros and cons of each script. This really is a toughie. Will try to give an answer today (not because you're rushing me, but because I'm an eager SOB). |banghead|

Thanks for the tip on webmasterlabor...got them bookmarked for future reference |thumb

Wouldn't be for reviews though...I plan to retire my girlfriend from her day job and bring her online for reviews when the time is right :D

Great set of questions and answers! Looks like a pretty comprehensive analysis of that piece of the project |thumb

hahaha
So we both went to the same school of adult webmastering! lol

Good luck kristian.
Like most here I'll be reading this thread regularly.
I doubt I'll have much to input, especially since you are going to list movies only, but good luck anyway.
:)

Wales? You say Wales? My homeland? Woo Hoo!
Extra good luck to you then!
:D

great thread, its really interesting:)
Good luck

Hey Gary |waves|

I'm in Llandudno. :) Great to have you in the thread dude!

Thanks, stfuvt :) |waves|

You betcha! I'd much rather have her running around here in a thong bikini as opposed to heading out to the office every day!

And of course, I'd have to get SOME work out of her lil butt :D

You're a bad man LOL

hya kristian and welcome back|cool| for 2 years already i am focussing on linksites, i have had several myself and sold them all on this moment i am making some new ones, and again i learned some things....one dont make them to big if you just start to make an linksite........i made that mistake myself again...its not only the submits you need in those categories but its also alot of work, when you start a linksite be sure you have the niches to get submits too, to get submits trade with other linksites submits pages and make you linksite known all around the world, keep your eye on the sponsors you use, i am very picky if an sponsor dont convert with in the 500 or 1000 clicks i will change it, it also ofcourse depends on the traffic you get, put a linkback for your own linksite on every free site you make, do cat linktrades.etc. i know i can put more here but on this moment its 12.39 after midnight here and i am getting to much a chinese old dutch lady, tomoorw i will try to give more input here of my own view:)

Hey stuveltje |waves|

There is so much good information in that one paragraph. Great ideas and information. This is so helpful for me and anyone else reading this who wants to start a link list. I think what I might start doing is like a Sunday Summary so we don't forget any of the info that's come up in the week. I can list all the juicy stuff that we should all either remember or write down.

On another note, your link lists are excellent. Must admit, I haven't seen those before, so I'm guessing they're your new ones. You have exactly the kind of surfer-oriented sites that I like. Clean design, intuitive interface, easy on the eye color schemes. Really like them a lot. Reason I mention it is because all I've been doing lately is looking at link lists.

Thanks for the ideas and your participation in this thread is going to be great. |thumb

Yea, there's a news flash :D

Stu is a machine! Whether it's building link sites or reviewing for a dozen link lists at the same damn time! The lady is amazing |bow|

Speaking of reviews...better get to em...

Hi Kristian |waves|
I wish you the very best in your endeavor and would also like to thank you for this most enjoyable and informative thread.
As a new LL owner myself this makes for a great guide with the input of some seasoned veterans of the biz and pretty damn good folks as well. So again, thanks for that and good luck

1) Awesome thread and should be a good contribution to the adult community as a whole $$

2) Are you enjoying the can o worms yet? Or perhaps its not a can o worms, but more like pandora's box :P

A couple of things I'd think about when setting up:

a) Ensure that you can target advertising properly - random banner rotations are ridiculous...kinda like rotating galleries with the descriptions really - hit n miss relevancy to the surfer. If you do want to run banner rotations, ensure that you can set it up with categorization or multiple installs to ensure that only targetted banners appear for each category

b) In addition to item a) above, ensure that you can quickly swap out sponsors performing poorly on your traffic

c) If possible, get yourself an LL platform that is extensible - plugins are good, but the ability to customize and manually plug in your own stuff is golden, especially when it comes to databases - being able to add custom fields for more page output & mass publishing is a very sweet thing

d) Templates & template support from a platform is good, especially a templating system that permits conditional statements and such

e) Make sure you can blend your CSS into it. This is usually a given but again, best to make sure.

Most link list software will cover these items in some form or other, but its best to be sure. They are also relevant considerations when configuring your link list. For example, if you hardcode category banners into your templates, you're gonna have fun editing them...whereas if they are ssi inserts or php/mysql generated, you'll have a much easier time of it.

GL with your endeavour :)

Hey bluemoney |waves|

Thanks a lot dude. I hope it helps you and I'm really excited with the way it's going myself. Lot of nice people here offering some great advice. Good luck with your LL! :)

I think the worms are on steroids!! lol

Those are some excellent tips. The choice of script has been one that's kept me up nights, I have to admit. Not only is it about features but I know the owners of one script (Dragon List) and have friends who are happy using other scripts. Makes the decision all the more harder. What I have pretty much decided though is to go with gossamer links. I will post more details about why later, but a lot has to do with other sites using it, plugins and gut feeling (much of the stuff you have mentioned).

Thanks for all your help so far - here and via email. I'll be contacting you today and, with your permission, posting all the juicy details. :)

Lots Going On Today
 

A lot of juicy stuff happening today.

hosting ...

The new dedicated server is ready. I went for a package with my current host, ATCIHosting.

Type : Dedicated Server
BW : 10 Mbps
3.0GHz P4
512MB RAM
2x80GB SATA (SW Raid1)
Price : $349.95 / Month

The owner, Chris, is a great guy. Support is excellent. I think the server should be fine to get us started.

domain transfer ...

This will cause a slight delay, unfortunately. I decided to transfer the domain away from godaddy. After completing the process, their email tells me the transfer will complete on Monday. This is a shame because I had wanted to get the script installed and begin some hands-on work. Hopefully though, this will be seen as a good move in the long run.

design ...

The actual design cannot begin of course until the domain transfers to my new registrar. However, I'm going to use this time to decide on layout, possible color schemes, slogan, and whatever else comes to mind.

You remember the designer I had under consideration? Unfortunately, we will be unable to work together. No drama, just a natural conflict of interests. I made a promise to everyone reading this thread that I would disclose everything. The designer made a promise to the html design guild that he would not disclose prices to the public. There is our problem. Had I been able to publish his quoted price, I would have hired him this morning.

All is not lost. We have Amareck to the rescue!

Like most / all webmasters I am proficient in designing websites. What I lack are high-end graphic skills (like those clever cartoonists). The decision to use a designer would have been to implement designs beyond my abilities. Amareck, while not a professional graphic designer, is expert in CCS, with a specialty of implementing it in link lists. He was instrumental in transfering two popular link lists from html to css : feversfavourites.com and megapornlinks.com. If all goes well, Amareck will be the guy who gives MoveLinkList a complete css layout. The actual design will then be left to me (oh fuck!).

branding & logo

I may or may not hire someone to create a logo this weekend. It all depends on how my creative juices are flowing.

This is generally how I design a site.

I get the logo and open it up in photoshop. Using the color-picker I choose a color scheme for the site based on the colors in the logo. I always do it this way. Have tried it without a logo beforehand, but it never worked. To get me started I need that logo and the colors in it.

What I'll be doing today / this weekend is brainstorming a slogan and ideas for the logo. I'll then take this to a professional designer (possibly Bruno Dickman, if they are available).

There is no huge rush for this though. Script cannot be installed until Monday at the earliest anyway.

link list script ...

Am 99% sure I will be using gossamer links. Unless I change my mind, I will buy this and install it the moment domain has transfered.

Have a good weekend, All!

Sweet...the nuts n bolts start soon!

Very enlightening having this play out in a public forum. And it's gonna be great watching your new baby grow up right here at GG&J |thumb

You're obsessed with my nuts! |couch|

Honestly, as magnificent as it all sounds so far, you seem to have strayed away from the golden rule of webmastery. K.I.S.S. Or, as I like to say, K.I.S.C. - keep it simple cocksucker. The basis of a link list is such a simple thing. This isn't rocket surgery or brain science. ;) Just make sure that when all is said and done, you haven't built a list where you yourself don't have the ability to toss shit around and edit on your own. A link list should't require a manual.

As you have your team of engineers and designers :D constructing your list, worry less about pretty - and more about the proper layout of the major aspects, such as paysite links, category link trades, and free site links. Study the big old link lists that have been around before anyone even knew what the F keys were for on their keyboards. Look for chaos and look for strategy - they're both there.

I think it is pretty simple, UW. :)

I wanted one designer to design the site. He wont allow me to publish his prices. I've chosen another designer, instead, to give me the layout in css (based on my explicit instructions).

Not that we should hijack this thread into anything unrelated, UW, but someday we should do a thread about the value of chaos, and about intentionally creating what may appear to be (areas of) chaos.

Okay, back to this thread's focus.

It might be valuable to collect some opinions on things like where other LL owners choose to position their paysite links, free site links, link trades, where they put text addressing the surfer, how soon to show the first photo or large graphic elements. Personally I'd find it interesting if anyone wanted to share why they position their elements they way they do.

Those are the key considerations for sure. I second the motion for link list owners to share their thoughts.

I have my own ideas but will be sharing these at an appropriate time in the development of movielinklist. What I will say now, however, is there will be no advertising at the start. Bandwidth is cheap, but boomarkers, trades and content are priceless. One of my missions at the start will be giving my submitters traffic that has not been subjected to my own promotions and surfers will get clean pages to encourage bookmarking.

One of the promotion techniques I'll be using on the site, after the initial phase, is promotion that does not look like promotion. It is this technique that works well 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for me in other areas. I wont be inventing the wheel (other LLs use it) but it will form part of the process of phasing in advertising. It would be getting ahead of myself to say more now.

This is a great thread and things like this are why I always recommend that affiliates looking for ideas stop in here and join in.

I'm sure there are dozens taking notes. I know I am |thumb

It's great to have you in here, Tom |waves|

Excellent. That's something MML has said to me in the past and I believe is something that he and GG do when they work a new project. First gain the love of the surfers, then work on marketing to them.|thumb

I like this thread very much! I strted a topic on newbie part of this forum about developing my hub/site http://www.femdompornlinks.com to real, big, clean and HQ link list dedicated to only one specific niche! I just wanna try to get away from newbie mistakes and a few realy nice people show me some paths and light my way to the top :) Thanx guys |thumb
I'm sure that this thread will help me as it helping you!
I can't give you some advices about developing LL but I can give my contribution to it with submiting my free sites to your LL! I'll be glad to help anyone around here cose all you guys and girls ROCK!!!
Chears |waves|

Hey massive-x |waves|

You'll find greenguyandjim to be a great resource. I know I learn a lot here every day.

That LL of yours is looking good and that domain is sweet.

Thanks for the offer of the free sites. I can use all the good submitters I can get!! |thumb

Anyway - glad to have you in the thread! :)

SUNDAY SUMMARY

The project started on Wednesday (4/5/2006). A lot has happened in three full days. Not as much as I would have liked - due to the delay caused by transfering registrars - but enough to give me the idea in the shower for a Sunday Summary.

niche

I scanned the market comprised of webmasters using a link list as their business model. I sought out a popular niche that was sufficiently unsaturated to permit entry and feasible success : Movies. To gain search engine superiority, it would have been better (as Greenguy suggested) to choose a movie niche. However, I am happy to work long-term towards success, and the relative newness of movie free sites has me concerned about getting adequate content from submitters. So, the general movie niche!

domain

I wanted a domain that possessed inherent seo and branding benefits. The ideal domain would have been FreePornMovies(dot)com. However, the best combinations of keyword domains where unavailable. I could have gone with charactername(keyphrase), but decided such a name would lessen the overal prestige of the site (I want surfers to see this as the definitive site for porn movie links). I chose MovieLinkList(dot)com : A descriptive domain that should be memorable and easy to brand and one that I have owned for 2 years come August. It does lack, however, some seo benefits that may cause problems down the line (here I refer to anchor text in the all-important back links) but I am hoping enough trades will allow me to use keyword anchor text, as opposed to actual domain name. So, MovieLinkList(dot)com!

hosting

I went with my current host with whom I've developed trust.

ATCIHosting have top-notch support, a great reputation, and offer affordable deals for almost any budget.

I chose a new dedicated server to house Movie Link List. Here are the details :

Type : Dedicated Server
BW : 10 Mbps
3.0GHz P4
512MB RAM
2x80GB SATA (SW Raid1)
Price : $349.95 / Month

script

The choice for a script is more important than domain name. In terms of seo, domain names are losing relevancy, but not having the right engine behind a site can cause all kind of problems. I needed to choose the best engine to power my site for the long haul. I chose Gossamer Links v.3.0.1. I has all the features I need (surfer-side, webmaster-side, admin-side), a solid reputation, a long history (so I can almost gurantee it will be here in the future to provide addons and upgrades, keeping my LL abreast of directory technology), and I have a good gut feeling about it. So, Gossamer Links!

PLANS FOR THE COMING WEEK

A LOT will be going on!

This weekend I'm in photoshop designing the layout of Movie Link List. I will post these up when complete. My finished designs will be passed on to Amareck who is being hired to code the site - from the ground up - in CSS, based explicity on the designs. Amareck is the man behind the css development at fevers favorites and mega porn links. I want a CSS layout for tons of reasons but need a professional to code it for me.

When the domain has tranfered registrars, I will purchase Gossamer Links and install it. Amareck will them, should his schedule permit, code the site in css.

I've already contacted Dickman's Design about a logo. If they are available soon, and allow me to disclose our dealings (costs, logo development stages) here, then I will hire them.

Other stuff going on :

- deciding on categories (see my thread over here, which I hope will help me decide on a small category list, as per stu's advice)

- completing design of Movie Link List (to include everything with making the site complete in terms of graphics, layout, text)

- finding linking partners and submitters

- finding free hosted movie free sites & movie galleries

All the above should take us to where Movie Link List is up and operational.

Have a good Sunday!

nice pick the movie linksite way, i have one myself too, what i have done till now is only put some categories up where people can submit their moviesites, i skipt the niches like, bbw, midget, latina and some others, i have put those together in the fetish or misc niche, they will stay there untill i have enough submits for those niches to make an seperate categorie for it, what i did found out that moviesponsor sell worser for me on that linksite then normall sponsors, so yeah again i am still trying alot of stuff on those linksites:)
Good luck with your new linksite:)))))