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Alex you are correct its 1,500 hunderd feet ..It does say adult website, adult content
and studio so i think they just want me to move on. you do give good advise when read in proper context. Thanks webwoman |
WOW! Internext is really going to be quite interesting this year. |waves|
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I think that ultimately it comes down to risk vs reward. Risk is something that we encounter every day, but individual tolerance for risk varies. I think it's clear that Alex has a very low tolerance for risk, which is what works for him. FG on the other hand does not focus on the potential negative consequences, preferring to focus on the anticipation of positive consequences.
We're each entitled to make those decisions for ourselves, neither is right or wrong. |
Webwoman - I want you to know, no matter how harsh we sometimes seem, we all really want you to come out on top of this. None of us would wish that type of embarrassment and legal scare on another from our community.
And our in-fighting may seem a little crazy, but this is how we educate each other - through vigorous debate. As bad as any raid or legal action is for this community, it's good that we can walk away with a lesson learned, hopefully unscathed. |
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Most people are unaware or fail to understand the concept of "piling it on". Many laws are written in such a way that if you do 1 thing wrong, they can put about 50 -100 charges on you. My example with FG was the simple outdoor photoshoot. That would be enough to merit a warrent to check all of her content, and in that review, they could possibly find other things that didn't like. What starts with a simple "commercial movie production without a location permit" can end up being so much more. Giving (especially) local officials a small way in the door can lead to insane amounts of trouble. There is always something else that can be found. webwoman: The best thing anyone can do here is learn from your experience. It seems like something very small (which most people would ignore) starts a chain of events that leads you to likely have to move your business and yourself. I have a feeling that the big building kitty corner to you is a church. Most people don't even consider the zoning aspects of their business. Good luck and let us know the end results. Alex |
on my way out the door to the lawyer now...will keep you posted.
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We sincerly would like to be kept posted....
By the way, this thread has left me fairly impressed with those who have taken part... We haven't all agreed on this subject, but it was mostly discussed in a rational manner without anyone getting way out of bounds..... and UW I thinki your comment on the educational value of such discussions are right on the mark. I think I will have to spend more time wandering through the threads here. |
Harold, there is a large mix of people here with different experiences and backgrounds. Literally nuclear engineers to garbage men, and everything in between. The variety and breadth of the experiences really do bring some amazing things to light in these discussions.
It is also good that there are many people here who have been in the business for a very long time. Jim has been in this business since, well, before there was a business. You can't buy experience ;) I look forward to seeing how this one turns out. Alex |
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The point of having a menstruation site is not to try and compete with the trend of making something as shocking and crazy and irresponsible and sketchy as possible while still being just this side of legal, it's to focus on menstruation itself as a natural healthy part of adult female sexuality. Your examples of stomach-pumping, toe infections, and vomit as a part of healthy adult sexuality do nothing more than show how little you know about women or respect us. And anyway, vomit has already been "normalized" in the biz to the extent that for ever "period" photo I've seen, I've seen 20 photos of a girl being throat-fucked until she vomits. Quote:
Give me some solid facts from the US as to how often the government pursues adult sites for whether or not they had shooting permits for their locations, or quit harping on it. Quote:
And quit with the dad-talk of telling me that I need to be responsible for my own actions, you being condescending doesn't change the fact that I am one of the most responsible ethics-driven adult webmasters you will ever meet, and who is willing to fight for everyone's right for freedom of sexual expression, even if it means I would go to prison for it. Quote:
If you want to pick on anyone, pick on sites that cater to pedophiles or tacitly encourage rape. You know, the sites made by the big sponsors. |
Any body have any popcorn? :)
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I had a whole big post typed up, and I deleted it.
I have nothing to prove here. Furrygirl, honestly, you don't have a clue. You don't get it. Not even in the slightest. You don't see the line between sexual and non-sexual. You don't seem to understand that most people are comfortable with their sexuality, but they still close the door when they go to the bathroom. Only a very small number of people want to see what happens behind that door, and I doubt it is for purely sexual reasons. As mentioned in another thread here, more than likely coming from mommy complexes, or other non-sexual issues. Much in the same way that Rape has little to do with sex (it is an act of domination and / or rage), people into scat or menstruation aren't involved in it for any sort of sexual thrill. Your own words: "It's not real honest female sexuality they're after, it's these little things that are removed from it, which are held up *as* female sexuality. Many of the period guys are sweethearts and subbies, but a number of them are vicious misogynists who actually truly *hate* women for say, not sharing their used pads with them, or popping their fetish bubble and saying that most chicks don't get sopping wet walking down the "feminine needs" section in the grocery store." Do you really think there is much difference between these people who have a warped view of bodily functions and people who commit rape? In all cases, they would appear to have certain disfunction when it comes to male-female relationships. Alex |
Someone needs to borrow a whip from webwoman and take a kid out behind the wood shed and wear her ass out.
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Alex |
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Updates on what’s going on .The first amendment attorney met with my bankruptcy attorney today to find out what happens in a situation where the courts already approved my business.
This is how it began prior to the raid. I was in the mist of doing a bankruptcy and was told that I had to make xxx amount of money to qualify for a chapter 13. I had an interest in doing a membership site as well as selling custom made furniture and videos. I have always been a Dominant female but was not completely convinced that I would be able to earn enough money before they foreclosed on my home. They gave me a month to come up with a plan that would prove that I could make enough money to pay back my debt This allowed me enough time to gather all the paper work that was needed to run my business. It took months to get it approved. I had to show a month to month history of everything I did to earn money. When my income got to a level that matched the amount needed to make my plan payments they entered my business into the books as an adult base business for website, video, content and a custom furniture store. The two rooms I ran my business out of became a studio where we shoot our content and did videos for the site. They approved it. And each month watched it grow. Here is what is taking place now Together the two attorneys are taking my case to court to fight the reason why they came in and seized all of my stuff. He said that because it was documented in the courts as an adult based business and I made all my plan payments from my income from it. . The stuff they took was listed on the court papers from the bankruptcy case so it was business property. He is going to claim that my livelihood was taken away after my business was already approved on record. The raid puts us in default and now we are unable to make our payments. They will have to dismiss the bankruptcy and wipe the debt clean. If they don’t let me run my business so I can pay for it. My bankruptcy lawyer busted his ass getting it approved and he won’t let it go. The first amendment attorney thinks our rights have been violated so he wants to fight it So I think it’s a good thing …it may help others in ct in the end. Friday I go to a strategy meeting to see how we begin this fight .It should be interesting Anyway he wants me to keep the site up so I will for now. Still thinks the town doesn’t want me here and that’s what it about. But I will do what I have to to continue ..and make sure this time no mistakes are made. |
You still have answered the main question: Why did they raid you to start with? Because of the bankrupcy? Because of the zoning? Because of the "donations" part of your business?
I didn't catch the actual answer in your post. Alex |
We dont have the warrant but because it was local and state they believe it was for either the fact that it was adult based and thought it was not on the books as such.
there was a mention that they thought it was a consulting firm but they did not read what kind. Also because the donations they thought i was running some type of club that was not zoned. More than likely it zoning and permit stuff and the though of me doing any sex acts i would guesss. I guess because its not sex for money its hard to say what you can and cant do to someone..no such laws exsist in ct where it specifies what you can do in bdsm. its a greay area ..i cant wait to watch it unfold though ..still i feel that you all have helped me alot.and your points were correct they do look at all those things ..he did say that as long as it all checks out we will be ok. and he is assured it will, |
Bankruptcy is Federal. Bust is local. How are they related?
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Alex, if you mattered to me or if I respected you in any way as a human being or a business colleague, maybe I would give a shit that you don't like me. All of your posts sound like they're coming from someone who thinks they're extremely famous and important in the adult industry, like I should submit to you like a helpless little newbie who can barely tie my shoes.
You haven't the least bit of understanding about human sexuality, so don't try and dissect fetishes from a group of people you've never spent a minute of your life with. You know why I say that many menstrual fetishists started their interest from what their mothers had under the sink or in the wastebasket? Is it because I'm mean, or trying to dismiss anyone's sexual desires? No, it's BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THEY'VE TOLD ME, in their own words. So, you think that you can take what I've learned in 2 years of following a community of fetish folk and turn it around at me? Ha, nice try. Good lordy, it's so heartbreaking that pornographers like you are the ones with more traffic and more ability to influence people with your backward-ass ways of thinking. |
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my post before this one explaines the connection
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furrygirl, let's play here.
Let's say someone has a business with a dozen employees, makes good money, but sometimes is resticted by, say, unfair import duties on their products. Perhaps they are losing business because another country pays their employees much less to do the same job. They have a fairly big business, and they work with the process of government, lawyers, and pressure to improve their situation and make it work out as well as can be considered. You will notice that none of those business people were standing out on the street at the G8 summits wearing gas masks, destroying buildings, throwing firebombs, and attacking police. The people on the street had little, so they had little to lose. They don't understand or care how their actions might affect other people, they don't care about the businesses destroyed or the people injured or the mayhem caused, as long as their points got somehow heard. Often, their points are lost in the noise of overdone protest. Understanding and accepting that there are rules and regulations that cover our buisnesses (including such ignorant things as zoning, business permits, and obscenity laws) and the pressures applied by partner companies (such as hosting, credit card processing, and search engines). Our industry serves itself well (IMHO) when it is careful to nurture the type of positive relationships with companies that will alow the industry to continue to grow long term. When it comes time to disagree with those partners, we do best to choose our battles wisely and use captial wisely to get them to stay in the game and perhaps open their minds a little bit more. You have a different opinion. You are welcome to it. Alex |
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Please. |huh |
Ya know in the end things balance themselves out
I believe that this industry needs self regulation the credit card company's and third party billers have already done a very good job of weeding out some of the more undesirable stuff I wish the hosting companys would do more or could do more |
I hate to jump in here but I've been reading this thing since day one, and I can say its been interesting to read both sides and they both had very good arguments.. then it turned into a movie script type thing.. I think you two should call a truce...
|waves| |
Sweet jeebus! Now you want to debate "free" trade with me, Alex? Maybe next week we can argue about which religion has the one true god?
Sorry, you're too dull for me to waste any time on you with any new issues. I'm going to do something more productive and go watch "Beneath The Planet Of the Apes". |
That is scary stuff indeed! If they showed you no search warrant, I don't see where they were supposed to do that! It sounds like a giant harrassment to me.
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My 2 cents...
I apologize for being a bit late to the party but there are a few things that I would like to point out that I did not see mentioned anywhere so far....
In regards to the issue of "prostitution" I think in general by legal standards "prostitution" would be considered as a person paying for any type of "sexual gratification". This does not necessarily mean "sex" as we know it and so if Johnny Boy gets off on being spanked then if the powers that be wanted to press the case they could do so and regardless of where the act(s) took place the situation would be the same.....whether she was running this business from her home or from a retail location would not change the situation much. I've been involved in all aspects of the adult entertainment industry over the past 15 plus years and that does include the ownership/management of adult oriented clubs as well as an escort service and one thing I can tell you for certain is that if the city/state wants to make a case against someone they will and let the lawyers sort it out and see if they can get a conviction. I know for a fact that most working girls charged with prostitution often times are not convicted or they end up with deferred adjudication/probation. I know for a fact that police departments will go so far as to basically force people out of their jurisdiction by using tactics as described here regardless of whether or not they could get a guilty verdict in court on any charges they may file. Almost every dominatrix that I know charges some sort of fee or "donation" for their services and although I would admit it's a bit odd for one to over "overnight" sessions who are we to say just how long anyone should be given to indulge their fantasies... I don't think that there is a single person in this industry who could not be the target of legal action since for the most part there is a very thin line at times between what is legal and what is not and in the area of obscenity that line is very easy to cross since there really are not any set in stone guidelines in regards to what may be obscene and what is not. A lot of people had some rather harsh things to say in this thread and I think many would be best served to do a bit more thinking before speaking since at any given time any of us could have the authorities at our door questioning what we thought were our above board and legal practices. Best of luck to you WebWoman |
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I did an interview last week with one of the Xbiz world reporters about some self regulation proposals and this new association Bill Margold is proposing.... I wont spoil the interview but I will cut and paste what hes proposing.... "Margold is calling for the formation of something called AMERA; the Adult Media Entertainment Responsibilities Associations. This organization would somehow try to encourage compliance with his six-point plan, which is: 1) An end to extreme hardcore content. 2) IV drug testing to discourage use of performers that are on IV drugs. 3) A 21-and-over age limit for performers that do hardcore. 4) Cutting ties with the escort business by not allowing escorts to perform in front of the camera. 5) Not using foreign talent unless they have legitimate papers to work in the US. 6) Working with the government to legislate a "porn tax" similar to alcohol and gambling taxes." Self regulation is being discussed. |
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Where's the cat herder? |
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I used to be a big fan of Bill Margold but over the past few years he's seemed a bit loony. 1- I personally would love to see this, but not at the expense of free speech 2-Should be common sense, but then who would shoot with Max? 3-Hurrah! (My own personal shooting policy btw, as I don't feel that any 18 year old girl is equipped to make decision with such far reaching consequences) 4-That's just silly. Are they going to bar "pornstars" from crossover in the reverse direction too? 5- Under 2257, isnt this already the law? 6- Will never happen. Taxation creates legitimacy, something the US is not ready for. You'll see a tax on pot before a tax on porn. |
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As soon as the discussion wasn't exactly about you, you are gone. I understand. |rock| |rock| |rock| |rock| |rock| |rock| |rock| |rock| |rock| |rock| Alex |
Bill Margold is a very interesting man (I have spent a fair amount of time with him on various subjects, and I got to really understand a fair bit about what he does). At least a couple of these points sum up his beliefs very well indeed.
You have to remember that Bill is not suggesting that any of this content would go away entirely, but is suggesting that if the mainstream part of the industry went this way, things would change as a result. This isn't to limit free speech, just to get the majority of the industry to stay away from certain areas that are not good for us. 1 - matter of taste. If the distributors wouldn't carry it, the producers wouldn't make it. 2 - the industry needs to stop taking advantage of the weakest members of society. They need to stop taking risks. The porn industry shouldn't be the paycheck keeping these people on the gear (nor should any other company in any other business tolerate or encourage it). 3 - we all like our teen girls... but are they mentally ready to make this choice? (My personal feeling is if they are able to vote and die in a war, they are allowed to fuck on camera... but that is just me) 4 - The intention here is good, the reality is that too many porn girl make their big money do PSE hooker worker, charging upwards to $2000 an hour. Unless the porn buisness is going to come up with much larger paychecks, the girls and guys will go out and hook, dance, and whatever to make a living. 5 - The porn business should not be any different from mainstream films. If they want out of country workers to appear in a film they have to get the right documents from immigration to do it. Why should the porn business be different? 6 - a small but clear porntax (collected at point of sale, example) would go miles toward legitimizing the business. The government can only tax what is legal - once taxed, you are defeacto legal. Bill isn't entirely right or wrong, but I can see where he is going. Personal responsiblity to assure that the indsutry as a whole can continue for a long time to come, and that the industry stops taking advantage of the most vunerable people. Alex |
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I do not beleive that an 18 year old is mesntally ready before everyone starts in on the army bs I also think that a person should be 21 to go in to combat meaning they can serve in the miltary at 18 but not be assigined to combat units untill 21 and 21 to drink and 21 to drive unless they are in the miltary or go to college or have a full time job that requries driving |
the PERCEPTION of change...
I would like to wish everyone here at GG & J a Happy Thanksgiving!
Now on to the matter at hand..... 1) An end to extreme hardcore content. I have several objections to this but I think the biggest question would be who exactly defines what is "extreme"? There is no way that we should allow censorship to take place as I don't think anyone should have the right to judge what should be acceptable sexual conduct between two consenting adults. Anyone who thinks that could put an end to extreme content and sex is clearly wrong and but trying to limit even more what acts could be considered acceptable we would only be seeding the growth of a new underground market for material that would no longer be considered legal. Keep in mind that today film producers really don't need distributors and with VOD and IPTV technology producers of 'extreme" content can produce material and distribute it directly to buyers who are interested in such material. When people get around to thinking about making changes to the adult industry they should really take a good look at how some of these ideas will really change what may be considered a "problem"....Do we draw the line at anal sex being too taboo? maybe interracial or gay sex. Censorship will only lead to more censorship and will not solve any of the so-called "problems' associated with the adult industry. 2) IV drug testing to discourage use of performers that are on IV drugs. Are we only going to test people for drugs which may be taken intravenously? In all seriousness most drugs that could be taken intravenously can also be administered into the human body by other means with the same effect so I really have to wonder if this idea has much more to do with the generally negative feelings that most people have towards IV drug use as compared to really trying to do something to help protect the industry. IV use is of course always brought up when HIV/AIDS comes up but with the exception of the dangers involved with the sharing of used needles is an IV drug user any more at risk of contracting and spreading HIV or any other disease than an 18 (or better yet 21) year old performer who uses recreational drugs and engages in reckless sexual behavior. If you're going to test people for drugs then test them for all controlled substances regardless of how those drugs may have been administered into the body....Don't take the politician route and use "hot topics" such as IV drug use to make things to the outside world seem like something is being done and things are changing when nothing really has. If you want to rid the adult industry of drug use then pot heads and coke whores have to get thrown out with the IV drug users but people need to keep in mind that drug use isn't an adult industry problem it's just a problem and people from past presidents to the cop patrolling your neighborhood may have a drug problem but the last thing anyone will hear of is the mandatory testing of everyone on Capitol Hill for controlled substances and the abuse of prescription medication. 3) A 21-and-over age limit for performers that do hardcore. I really think a lot of these suggestions are more about PERCEPTION than reality.... If we all agree to use 21 and older performers we could say to the government that we are doing our best to try and protect young people but on the other hand are we really making a difference? Now we would have 18 thru 20 year olds who are interested in the financial gains available by working in the adult industry simply making their living as hookers as compared to being adult film performers. We haven't really solved anything and the fact of the matter is that when it's all said and done the Adult Entertainment Industry as a whole would still be looked at as a problem. Take the current 2257 legislation which honestly does very little to stop the production and distribution of child pornography and only serves to place an unneeded burden on producers and create a security/privacy issue for performers. We really should not stoop to use political tactics in order to somehow change the governments view of the adult industry since we all know that such tactics really have no positive effects when it comes to solving the problem and only serve to make it look like the government or in this case AMERA is actually making a difference. At age 18 you can drive a car, go to war and die, or have an abortion and so for us to say that a person at age 18 is competent to make these decisions but not make a decision on how they would like to make their living is absolute nonsense. The age of consent in most states ranges from 16 to 18 and so the US/State government has made a decision that those individuals are capable of making rational decisions about having sex and they are also considered "adults" at that age but are they are not capable of making job decisions 4) Cutting ties with the escort business by not allowing escorts to perform in front of the camera. I had to laugh a bit when I read this....regardless of what anyone may think the line between prostitution and being an adult performer is very thin. Although prostitution is illegal in most states having someone on hand to video tape the events for a "theatrical production" voids that illegality but for the most part the acts performed by the parties involved remain the same. We all know that a great number of adult performers make a considerable portion of the income from activities such as escorting....The real problem here lies is that for us to self censor and say that a performer can not work as an escort implies that all escorts are doing something illegal or immoral like having sex for money and that somehow just seems like the pot calling the kettle black. 5) Not using foreign talent unless they have legitimate papers to work in the US. This may be the only thing here that makes sense but then again isn't it against the law to hire undocumented workers to begin with? The last thing I really think any of us need are more rules out there to stack on top of the existing rules which are already in place. If the government wants to start enforcing this rule then let them feel free to do so but I really don't think this is an issue that needs to be addressed. 6) Working with the government to legislate a "porn tax" similar to alcohol and gambling taxes. Although many have expressed that they feel that a "porn" or "sin" tax as it is often referred to would add a bit of legitimacy to the adult industry I really find this to be bullshit. First of the concept as a whole does nothing but put porn in a negative light...A porn or sin tax pretty much suggests that there is something a bit wrong with what we do but that the government will tolerate it as long as they get a cut of the pie and that is not something I can agree with. Is this a tax or the beginning of legalized extortion of the adult industry? I would also like to know exactly where would this money go? Would this money go to fund anti-adult agencies so that we can help fund our very own demise or would the money go the the states or feds so that they can use the funds to pay more political bribes and fund more unneeded and unwarranted "military action" in foreign countries. I'm not a smoker but consider the ever rising tax being applied to cigarettes....All this has truly done in raise the cost of cigarettes to the consumer while bringing in more money for the government without doing mush to stop people from smoking or helping those who make be suffering from smoking related illness. Mack Diesel FLESH MERCHANT "What's Your Pleasure?" www.FleshMerchant.com |
What an interesting reply, flesh merchant. I must say I agree with most of what you say.
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1) An end to extreme hardcore content.
Bye bye bondage... then DP, then creampie, then bukkake... to steal a phrase - it's a slippery slope... 2) IV drug testing to discourage use of performers that are on IV drugs. huh? 3) A 21-and-over age limit for performers that do hardcore. then 25 next time around? 4) Cutting ties with the escort business by not allowing escorts to perform in front of the camera. huh? 5) Not using foreign talent unless they have legitimate papers to work in the US. there are other countries now? 6) Working with the government to legislate a "porn tax" similar to alcohol and gambling taxes." yeah right! Nup... can't find a single one that I agree with there... |
My Summary
Webwoman: Obviously, you didn't take my adivce to be quiet soooo...
I wish you the best and caution you to be very, very, cautious. Lawyers are a funny bunch and if you don't actually know the one you are dealing with its best not to follow their advice blindly without doing your own research. However, it does sound like you have a better than average situation given the complication of the bankruptcy situation (sorry that you are further caught up in the cross fire of more garbage piled up on top of an already bad situation). Two thoughts come to mind: 1) Just because you haven't heard anything generally doesn't mean that "they made an honest mistake and aren't trying to drive you into the ground. It usually means that they are just waiting to present what they have to a grand jury (The king never admits a mistake if only because it would then be actionable for damages) I can't imagine the situation where they'll go "Ooops... never mind"... so methinks you still have trouble ahead and be careful. 2) At minimum I would guess they want you out of town or out of business... don't fight it, negotiate an agreement and melt back into the framework of your community. Enough said: good luck! Furry Girl: After watching your other posts and seeing that you generally have a sweet temperment, I was a little surprised to see you go so hysterical in this thread. I understood once I realized that you feel you are defending what most would agree is obnoxious content and I gotta tell you it will NEVER be acceptable like you proclaim it should be. You are merely defending what you do and wrapping it in a Joan of Arc type crusade. You should step aside a minute and realize that you are justifying yourself and not being objective. If you are going to be "out there" then be willing to take the hits from a majority of people who find your stuff disgusting and just don't care. Don't act like everyone else is crazy. Raw Alex not only has NOT said anything that wasn't pretty reasonable, but I can see many times he opened the door to you and offered an olive branch to having a reaonable debate and not keep it on the personal level that you kept dragging it back too. Calm down and go back to your sweet self who knows a secret no one else can understand. FOR ME, I'm glad you're out there like that and encourage you to do more and better! You do have some guts and as long as you're pushing the barf bag stuff I know that I can safely peddle my tame stuff behind the wave that you've created. While they are paying attention to you they'll ignore me. You are a valuable asset to the porn game because as Raw Alex originally said, you are the one likely to get the speeding ticket. This is good for everyone else because they'll get to slide right by when you take the sacrificial hit. They should be thanking you instead of attacking you. Bill Margold: Somebody please stuff a rag in his mouth and tie him up somewhere! The official position is: Porn is ART and EXPRESSION! There will be no concessions. There will be no negotiated agreements. There will be no taxes. There will be no regulation. There will be no quarter! Period! |
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