Know-nothings?

Who the fuck are you? I hope you fall into a bucket of AIDS and die a slow, miserable death, you idiotic cunt-faced nobody. May your tiny cock leak burning puss and your eyeballs bleed acid, you worthless shit. YOU BRING NOTHING TO THE GODDAMNED TABLE.

How fucking dare anyone think outside of the box! How dare anyone suggest a slightly different method of doing things and HOW FUCKING DARE ANYONE ELSE WANT TO DISCUSS IT or pick it up and run with it. You know, just because you wander past a flock of sheep in a field, grazing and waiting to be raped by a farmhand, doesn't mean that you have to get on all fours and start ruminating and chewing straw.

I'm not some damned clueless newbie and I will NOT be addressed like one. And I am not FUCKED IN THE HEAD.

How many of you cocksuckers have even attempted to read the thread on Master X? I did. Google's translator sucks balls, but I tried to understand as much as I could. I wanted to know what other webmasters outside of this small cocooned community were discussing and what their arguments were, for and against, this change in template. I'd love to sit on high and summarily dismiss shit without a second thought. But I can't. If I can find a way to earn another dime in this rotten fucking business, by golly, I'm going to. Maybe you'd be surprised, but the webmasters at Massive X brought up the same pros and cons and they have the exact same doubts there too, SEO and otherwise.

What I don't understand is, what is so offensive about this idea, which amounts to nothing more than a voluntary template change? No one is saying that if some of us decide to build differently that GG and DD better accept out sites - or else we'll cry really, really loudly. GG says he has no cap on the amount of recips and doesn't care if we link to the galleries from the index - so what's the problem? If it's just the warning, why explode? Why not say, everything is fine, but you still need some sort of warning? If I was opposed to this template change, I hope my reaction would have been along the lines of, "I don't think this will help, but it doesn't hurt me, so I don't care what you do."

Warning page this, warning page that. Look at how many 'warning' pages have a a tiny chunk of warning text just above the enter link, after you've just scrolled past three banners displaying a 14 inch cock resting on a chick's face. Unless you have a hidden rule about no hardcore above the fold and the warning text has to be up there too, then you don't really care about the warning. I'm not sure what the warning page standard is, but I assume it's a lot like the standard that says the word Penisbot has to be kit's recips and Nee Dee has to be on R-occo's recips and Debauchery has to be on Spaceman's recips, but Link-o-Rama doesn't have to be on GG's recips.

Even though some us had already begun to discuss the issue calmly and intelligently, others felt the need to attack from the start, to be condescending and insulting. It's a shame, because it would have been nice to hear more opinions from free site submitters, instead being shut down by people who haven't submitted a free site in years, who don't care whether or not free site submitters might be able to work with some changes and might just think that they could make another buck.

Horse? Car? What are you talking about? Are horses supposed to be Link Lists & car are TGP's? If so, fine, there's still people that like horses & they still buy things.


Good old times? This has nothing to do with good or bad times. This has to do with how things evolved & me having 1st hand experience because I was there. You read a book about a soccer game, while I was there playing it.

Then why do any Link Lists have any traffic? Based on your theory, no surfers ever come back to a Link List because they are too stupid to find a big text link that says "ENTER" If your traffic can't find an enter link on a warning page, how are they going to find a join link on a paysite?

For fuck sakes! 10+ years of linking to warning pages & you're telling me that people can't find the enter link? You really are delusional.


So Sergeyka is left handed too? Just admit that you pushed that format because the SE spiders will see those links 1st.

Your reasons make no sense. I have proved every reason you have posted as being wrong or not needed. You bring up the RTA label as a replacement for the warning page & I tell you that the RTA people ask us to put the label on our warning page. You say this will cut down on the number of mirror sites & I tell you that most Link Lists do not have a cap on the number of recips on the free site.

You are telling people to change for the sake of changing.

Useless - what pisses me off personally is the way it was presented. Go re-read Kit's 1st post (which is what I am basing all of this post on)

"free sites layout is not so usable for surfers as tgp gallery" - this has been known to everyone since Day 1. Link Lists have less traffic than TGP's because of this. 2 more clicks before you see boobies.

"Text content duplicates many times" - this can apply to mirrors as well as crappy free site builders. 1.5 does not correct either. Educating/teaching people how to build better free sites might solve this, but in the end, what does the link list owner care if he's linking to mirror #7 of 23?

"They don't have new incoming links after initial listing in Link Sites" - neither do the TGP's or Blog posts that Kit is so fond of.

"Free site is a bad quality site in therms of Surfers because" - again,. TGP's are better & more popular. Yet Link Lists still seem to have decent traffic.

"We accept free sites without warning page if you will add ICRA or RTA meta tags to your site HTML code" - RTA asks us to put the code on our warning page, which is a "good faith effort" in the eyes of the US Gov't.

http://thepurelinks.com/tmp/f2.gif - Kit doesn't give us an example, he gives us a picture of a template? Come on!

"Benefits:
1) There is no reason to keep warning page" - why is that a benefit?

"Content can be accessed by two clicks instead 3 clicks before" - One less click? Yipee.

"Decrease free sites mirroring" - no it doesn't.

"PS. Read initial discussion on Master-X here (russian text)" - the PS pissed me off because if we decided to discuss this thread on say Medium Pimpin, the 1st thing you'd see in the thread would be a link to this one. The 2nd thing in that was the fact that the thread in question was already 200+ post into it - 30 or so less than this thread currently is. If you read it, good for you. But there's no way in hell that I'm going to translate 9 pages thru bablefish to find out what I already know - 1.5 is a dumb idea.

Now, that being said, I will agree with you that we do need to look at Free Sites & we do need to think outside the box. I think I need to dust off some old notes (yes, I have notes) I also think we need to revisit this thread:
http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/...ad.php?t=42250
(and, as you know, had my brain been working in the last year, I might have tried to do something about this already)

I'll also admit that part of my problem is ego driven - my mind keeps yelling to me "Who the fuck do they think they are changing how Link Lists & Free Sites work without consulting you?"

Love ya - Retard OUT!

I think you meant Capt Sparrow |couch|

Here's the thing, I actually don't agree with Useless on warning pages. I like having warning text on the index & believe or not, I don't use uncensored hardcore images on the warning page.

In fact, if you were to look at my first post, you'd see that I actually said,
So my opinion on this has been the same throughout the thread. And when I was discussing Kit's example, I did not think that the recips had to be on the left, or any other specifics, I just thought it was time to and Ok to discuss possible changes to the freesite model.

I thought that the "I think you're all fucked in the head." came from our collective responses for a willingness to list Floyd's site. Other than the linear format index->gallery1->gallery2->gallery3 I didn't really notice all that much out of the ordinary. Was it the HPA at the top of the index? I mean it's got warning text and we've all seen recips listed on the side like that before from creative builders. On top of that, Floyd's one of the best submitters I have, he could probably float a turd without my recip on it and I'd still list because of his history of submitting to me.

I'm hoping I'm wrong and the "fucked in the head" comment wasn't directed at us, regular forum members and friends to the board for what we will choose to list on our sites.

I understand there's background here because of who put it out there and the manner in which they did and tempers are running high, but it still doesn't feel good when someone we look up to and respect may have insulted us just because of the type of site we'd list. :(

"This thread is typically the thread you know nothing's gonna move with."

I took it as know nothing is, not know nothings. I don't think he was calling anyone a know nothing, just saying we know nothing will result from...

The problem with any type of written communications is that the reader will sometimes misinterpret the frame of mind or the intent of the writer.
There seems to be a fair bit of that going on here, or at least I hope that's the case.
I would have thought that there would be a lot less heat in a discussion of ideas as to how some people want to experiment with the freesite format, some don't, and some LL owners will list some of those experiments, and some won't.
If we were all talking about this at a barbecue, I'm sure it would all be worked out amicably.

Using the link from the index to gallery 1, to gallery 2, etc. isn't anything new. It used to be used often by many people around 2001 or so. We used to use it to hopefully drive traffic to our link lists. I think JanTM used it with great results to build traffic to Booballistics by saying gallery 1 --> gallery 2 --- > more galleries.

This design works well for some, not as well for others. The truth is that it just comes down to how well you sell. Some people sell well from a completely scrambled or disorganized site. I don't, and have had my best sales (over 20 signups in 1 year) from a very clean site with minimal banners and regular traffic.

There is no reason to get rid of a warning page. Whether for piece of mind of the webmaster, a show of good faith to others, or simply more add room for free site builders. Those that want to should just remove the main page. It really does just come down to choice of how you want to make it.

If better se results are the overall goal, and not just the removal of warning pages, then indirect linking would probably be one of the most benefitial steps, aside from higher quality sites being made and submitted.

Most builders don't take advantage of the freedom they have right now in designing, quality or layout. Most follow the same pattern even though it isn't set in stone, but then complain for more freedom to change things up. I think it's less a result of things being too restrictive, and more a result of lack of imagination and willingness to switch things up.

Of course, many of those that are the exception to that are on this board. They bring great designs and original looks to their sites, which is a wonderful change of pace.

I would love to place recips on the main page, which should be a step in the right direction, as opposed to having on the index. This means possibly less pagerank to the link lists, but seems that it would more benefial in the long run even though it's just a small change.

I used to be able to do this as most dont require the index page recip, but i was hoping to find out if Kit would be willing to allow recips on the main page as opposed to the index only?

Brad

Ummm....aaahhhhh....well, you see, I thought that everyone knew that line was said by Clark Griswod (played by Chevy Chase) near the end of the 1st Vacation movie. |pokefun||greenguy| My Bad :)

It is cool that you realized this and acknowledged it.|thumb

I am sure most people realized that something was getting to you other than just the ideas themselves.

The mind is a crazy thing.|shocking|

As for cap on recips.... There does have to be a line somewhere. But common sense should keep most people far from it.

I am sure many reviewers have seen the sites with the recips from every linklists on the net. Back when most people were using dialup these pages took many minutes to load. Not to mention looked like total crap.

Even though Kit did a horrendous job explaining this in his 1st post (Sergeyka shined a light on it for us) one of the points of 1.5 seems to be a large number of recips, to the point where a rule would be in place as far as the lowest number of recips you were allowed to use. I do agree that a rule like that should be in place - and I do have a rule that the minimum number of recips is 6 - but I don't see a need to increase that.

Oh... I think I see now. Its not as much about submitters wanting to use more recips but more like LL requiring more recips to be used.

I think that the 1.5 submitters want to use more recips (instead of making mirrors) & they think that Link List owners will decline them if there's more than 20? 25? 30?

I really don't know, seeing as Kit never explained it & all we have to go on is Sergeyka posting that the rule should be 40+ while we look at his example 1.5 site that has 37 recips on it. |huh

I don't push it, I offer it as another possible FS format.

And for sure I do not "push" left side recips template, just because it will spidered first. If you know DOM, bloсk position in the browser window and position in html code can be totally different.


So, I think all of the following sites broke this rule.
http://www.link-o-rama.com/greenguy/blog_porn.htm
http://www.link-o-rama.com/galleries/

So, why don't allow FS be more flexible in their format?

Who want to use FS with warning page - there is no problem.
Who want to use FS without warning page - there is no problem too.

This is what I think.

Why must it be the warning page to go as opposed to the main page?

I have an idea, lets get rid of gallery pages and add more spammy shit recip links over 2 warning pages.

You misunderstood my words.

I meant "Nothing is gonna happen because of this thread", I surely know who has much more experience than I do, you are for sure one of them.

And please stop speaking dirty to me, we don't know each other, I don't think I deserved such disrespect at our first exchange ! |virgohippy|

LOL, when i first started I built doorway pages to sponsors signup page. Wasn't too popular with the reviewers....:)

I don't know what DOM is, but I do know that 99.44% of people that create an html page like the gif example you posted would have whatever is in that left hand cell seen 1st by a spider.

That's what you come back at me with after 5 days of debating? My blog category links to blog pages & my hosted gallery page (that's not open to submits) links to hosted galleries? You forgot all of those pesky surfer-annoying paysites that I have listed.

We're talking about Free Sites in regards to Link Lists - not blogs or gallery pages or pic posts or rate my ass or top lists or avs sites or pay sites or access with email sites or tube sites or sex toy stores or dating sites or online dvd stores or phone sex page or adult message board or webmaster resource site or anything else that my Link List may or may not link to that is not a Free Site.

You know, I was thinking: if you're that concerned with getting the surfers to the content quicker, you could just link to the gallery pages. Or the pics/vids themselves - that's an even better idea! Think of the surfer retention you have then!

PS - the C letter is this: c Not this: с

I left handed |waves|

Sample free site 1.5 I did not|waves|

I accept firs 5 free site in my LLs :>)

Wellcome to Reality|headbang|

Dear Sir/Madam, |waves|

Your grasp of the English language is not that good. |waves| I suggest that you take a class at your local university so that you can learn how to speak proper English. |waves| Once you have accomplished this task, please feel free to return to the board and I will be more than willing to help you. |waves|

Sincerely, |waves|
Greenguy |waves|

I did miss one thing - 5 1.5 Free Sites were accepted by Sergeyka in 5 days. The popularity of this concept is mine boggling |thumb

My bad English - your slow death
:)

Dear owners big thanks!

I concerning about ballance betwwen FS usabilty and value.
Last 5 years this ballance decreased and became very small.


This is Tube conception. Yeach page IS content (streaming video).
http://www.youporn.com got 5 million uniques daily using it. Not bad.

No - I'm talking about hotlinking or linking to directories of pics that have no index file or linking directly to pics/vids on sites that have no htaccess file in place.

Now THAT would make for a happy surfing experience.

Or why not just endorse good old Fusker? |thumb

The ballance between free side and monetary side of the business must be.

Tubes on the right side (each page is a video which streams in your browser), we're on left side (small, unuseful sites with bad topology). And TGP in the center. ;-)

We can stay on the left side, but surfers constantly migrate to the right side. Now when SE positions dropped, LL traffic will almost dry.

So your site would die if Google dropped you to the point where you could not find your domain on the 1st few pages of results for ANY keyword(s)?

For those of you that may have missed it, there's a tangent of this thread that has started up over in marc's thread - you can start to read it here:
http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/...191#post396191
But the long & short of it is very simple: Kit has invented the HUB :D

I imagine you sitting in front of your screen and chuckling with a demonic laugh at your own CLEVEREST post, thinkin it will shoot Kits head off and kill all his ideas and plans. Holy shit! I'm laughing, too !:D|bananna|

You have just got to love conspiracy theory bullshit... |crazy|

GG is stating an opinion, and it just happens to be a fact that many of us support.. There is no anti-Kit agenda.

As many of us have pointed out.. there is nothing new in what is/has been proposed.

You can already build free sites with just about any number of recips - if they are properly presented and do not interfere with navigation.

You can already build free sites that link the galleries from the index page.

So what is new?
Re-invention is not "new".

DD

mmm i am thinking how to understand your post (and yep i am not english or usa either), or you are being sarcastic here and you are definitly not an english person or you are an usa person and i realy need to take english lessons again ( oke i didnt say the lessons i had before did their work:D)...help me out here...still i think its probrably the first thing

Ive just started reading this - but have something that kinda irritates me already - there has been a lot of talk about recips being required to be on the index/warning page and that is not accurate for a lot of lists - the terms I use in my rules is:

"If you link to us from the page we are linking to, do not put the link under your "enter" button.
The link back DOES NOT have to be on the 1st page, but if it is, it has to be above the enter link"

This was the reason that there is a separate "recip url" box on almost every link list software package out there - otherwise the software writers would have just left the submit form with one url.

Im not going to get into the SEO part of this conversation as a lot of bad assumptions are being made from the very start - and to try to correct someone elses interpretations of what their SE position problems are and how to fix it by using a change to something that isnt broken is not an ideal I adhere to - (i.e.) Im not gonna fuck my submitters just to try to fix something I broke

I'm calling bullshit. |bullshit|

There's nothing new to the suggestions, yet there's an amazing amount of resistance to them. So what does that mean? Almost every statement Kit has made has been quoted and deliberately mis-interrupted so that the sheep will think he's a fool. No matter what anyone may think of Kit, he's no fool. I don't know how anyone reading this thread or Marc's thread couldn't see that much of this is a personal issue and nothing at all to do with business. Again, the suggestions don't deviate very far from the standard free site, but a thread created to ask which lists would accept them was treated as spam and moved.

The free sites that I want to build in the immediate future won't have a main page. There will be an index with a warning, either a table or sidebar of recips, and 2-3 galleries, each linked-to from the index by a thumb and text link. But I assume that they won't be listed by many of the bigger link lists since they aren't a traditional free site. Of course, I can't ask who would be willing to accept them in this forum, because that's apparently somehow threatening to the traditionalists.

Neither did I, douche bag.

I'll list them, but please, easy on the sheep references ;)

I call double-bullshit |bullshit| |bullshit|

If anyone else had come up with the same ideas.. they would have been treated the same... There are two points(maybe three) I have made..

1. The 'design' does not differ from what can already be done. - therefore idea = useless

2. The 'idea' was proposed as a forgone conclusion... not as a proposal for discussion. That is real cart-before-the-horse stuff.. and not conducive to movement in a common direction..

3. Change for changes sake is waste of time/moneyresources.. eg: Category recips.. everyone(bar a few of us) dived into them with no discussion or thought for the consequences... and now everyone is diving out again because they served no fucking purpose at all..( and IMO did more damage than anything else in recent years.)


Useless you seem to want to tar "us" with a certain brush.. but do you say the same things about those that rush to defend Kits position so vehemently...



The short answer is...

the original idea was flawed,
the implementation was poor,
and it's only outcome is battle between 'the sides'...

Great.. |bananna|

DD

Does it? My results may vary...

2 more cents...
 

Also, IMHO if you standardize sites in such a way that has been described, you may make them easy targets for the search engines. Why doesn't each LL decide what they want to list instead of everyone trying to conform to one set of rules? Back in the day, this may have worked out well. I feel it's outdated now, but that's just my opinion. |potleaf||potleaf||potleaf||potleaf||potleaf|

kit and imo was treated rude from the get go on this whole change a free site topic

he is worried that when the legit tube sites start getting more wind in there sails, they will start dominating the serps, and imo they are the perfect site todo so... i will not go into why

and when the LL's start losing there se listings most of there traffic will be lost also

also there are not enough quality submitters anymore to have a strong LL FS biz model, plus the surfers are getting older now that started surfing free sites, plus it's not about how many clicks to the content, but imo free site surfers are tried of wading through unlinked thumbs, to busy main pages with hard to find gallery links and a lot of LL's still allow consoles on tour links to piss off the surfers

kit wants to believe and try to change free sites LL in hope's that they can compete with tube sites...and it just won't happen

in the future you better hope your LL holds rank in the serps to still make a few sales in the future

soon there will be all kinds of legit niche and fake tube sites floating around in the serps...and they will imo start taking your traffic, be it hubs LL tgps

when i bought some tube domains almost all the good ones were already bought up, and trust me, people have plans for them

so the moral goes in this biz i've found, instead of trying to change old stuff to compete with new stuff, you should own a bit of old and new to cover your ass

also us LL owners need to tighten our belts even tighter now, untill we find out our future, and think and invent was to generate more traffic...

lets face it this biz right now is full of a lot of uncertainty and i feel a lot of sites will go offline and a lot will give up

That's not true at all. Hell, Kit himself hadn't even decided if he was going to accept them until a couple of days later. He was looking for input, but was once again engaged in a hostile manner. The topic was brought here for input. I have no idea why anyone perceived it as anything other than that.
Whose money? Whose time? If you don't see a minor amount of flexibility in design as an issue, then why not allow for it? This is my biggest point of confusion. You and GG seem to argue against it while saying it's not any different than the current free site. Then you call it a change. I've never studied quantum physics, but I'm fairly certain you can't have change in a state unchangedness. (new word) So which is it, a change, or not a change - and what exactly are we arguing about? |huh
I see Sergeyka and Borgivan reacting to GG's hostility. I'm not certain that they are necessarily defending Kit at much as poking at GG. I suppose I could defend him, but he's done nothing but piss me off in this thread. Also, I'm not entirely certain over what Kit's opinion is, other than link lists, and therefore submitters, are in trouble. I happen to agree with that. I don't have a huge arsenal of free sites out there, but I can't even tell you when the last time I saw a new sale came in from one of my old sites, and they used to make sales. One is better off being a gallery submitter today than a free site builder.
There was never any reason for this battle. Several of us small link list owners, who I had always assumed were respected here, were discussing the idea before GG's first post:
That's when it went right to shit.
Oh there was also this gem:
The entire purpose of this thread was to DISCUSS IT HERE.

And was this necessary? http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/...10&postcount=1
If the bashing is going to continue on OTB for yet another week, why would anyone bother listening? I have enough closed-mindedness in my life.


Being that I'm involving myself in yet another venture that is going to require promotion, I was really hoping to begin building free sites at the end of this month, but I'm so damn frazzled at this point, I doubt I'll even bother with them, which is regrettable since I am link list owner.