Ignore Media and Polls - this article explains why...
 

To put any faith in the big media is a fool's bet.

Read an interesting srticle today from a link on metafilter about the recent GALLUP polls and how they have been misrepresenting results by predefining the poll's assumed numbers....

I assume leftcoaster is somehwat left wing, but maybe it just refers to the left coast of the US. Maybe that's the same thing.

They do a numbers breakdown in this article:

http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/002806.html

"Because the Gallup Poll, despite its reputation, assumes that this November 40% of those turning out to vote will be Republicans, and only 33% will be Democrat. You read that correctly. I asked Gallup, who have been very courteous to my requests, to send me this morning their sample breakdowns by party identification for both their likely and registered voter samples they use in these national and I suspect their state polls. This is what I got back this morning:"

"The real problem here is that Gallup is spreading a false impression of this race. Through its 1992 partnership with two international media outlets (CNN and USA Today), Gallup is telling voters and other media by using badly-sampled polls that the GOP and its candidates are more popular than they really are. Given that Gallup’s CEO is a GOP donor, this should not be a surprise. "

Bill, thank you very much for posting this. I think normally my response to something along these lines would be "So what, what matters is the results of the vote, not polls." however, having read an article explaining how the media can influence the direction some voters will take (meaning Florida 2000 and them announcing GWB as the winner way before the polls closed swung the vote in his favor in several key locations). So now I take these polsters and their annonced results pretty seriously because it appears that there are a lot of voters out there who care more about voting for the winning canidate then who that canidate is.
God help us all


spaz

Speaking of polls, I read something last week in the new york times that amazed me- it was in an article discussing the difference between how men and women were viewing the election.

It turns out that a cbs/nyt poll discovered that 47 PERCENT of women still believed that Saddam was directly involved in the 9/11 attack!

It just shows you several things:

1. Americans are incapable of thinking.

2. American women are especially incapable of thinking.

3 Americans have so little access to information outside of the TV that what little thinking ability they have is useless. Garbage in, garbage out.

Here's the quote from the NYT article. (yeah, NYT is something a leftist rag as far as the red states are concerned, but it's a leftist rag with huge journalistic resources...)

Here's the relevant quote:

"Even odder, perhaps, was the gender gap on a question in the Times poll asking whether Saddam Hussein was personally involved in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. Twenty-nine percent of men said he was, versus 47 percent of women, putting them 18 points ahead - or maybe behind. "

From this article, subscription required.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/19/po.../19points.html

I'm not unaware of the irony of pointing to the amazing results of one poll in the print media right after saying that one should ignore polls and the media... ;-}

What can I say, but "Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.", with thanks to Emerson for such a perpetually useful quote.

You mean sort of like Dan Rather broadcasting bullshit about Bush's military record?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in641481.shtml

Both sides have their media friends.

EDIT: Not to mention teamed up with the Kerry campaign to organize the shit.

http://usatoday.printthis.clickabili...partnerID=1660

The Rather thing is pretty shocking. I already look at all the large media outlets with a jaundiced eye, but that was one of most amazing media displays we've seen since- well, since the media completely caved in to uncritical patriotic ferver at the beginning of the war.

If Rather was the one who made the go decision with those documents he probably should be fired.

I do think some kind of examination of the process is called for.

A lot of media analysts are saying this represents the beginning of the end for large media- fewer viewers all the time, the main demographic of viewers is dieing off. Soon all we will have is smaller coprporate outlets in the Fox model.

It's typical if you ask me. All the liberals say that Fox News is biased and they overlook their Left wing media sources. CBS is one of the worst ones along with CNN. You are right Rather should be fired, and I hope that big media is going down the drain. With the Internet its so much easier for find REAL information about shit that happened then to listen to bullshit interpretations of what they want you to hear.

I have not trusted television news in some time I get most of my news from multiple online sites and then form my own opinion instead of going by what people tell me. Unfortunately thats a big problem with a lot of people in this country and world is they believe almost everything they are told, which is sad.

Just makes me wonder how much this guy has "made up" or brought on the television that they didnt have concrete proof of.

I only trust Bill O'Reilly...He is truly fair and balanced.
The fucking Cocksucker :)

Well, at this point you kinda loose me, because I can't think of any glaring examples of CBS being "left-wing". It's another corporate owned managed media outlet, and it speaks with the voice of it's owners.

You are telling me that Viacom is left wing? Never heard that.

That Americans are profoundly stupid, believe what they are told like sheep, and have lost the ability to think, on that I imagine we agree.

Just like Michael Moore.

Very true! He leans both ways...

I think if you look online you will see many of the big 3 networks are liberal and many of the newscasters are liberal. Katie Courac, Dan Rather, Tom Brokaw just to name a few. I don't know all the CNN reporters because I don't watch them. However it is owned by Ted Turner a known liberal and husband to the biggest back stabbing bitch in US history, Hanoi Jane Fonda.

Many of the large newspapers have a liberal bias as well. I would say there is much more liberal leaning media then then conservative, but thats just my opinion. Then again the conservatives have the 700 club I guess.

I don't think Michael Moore has ever claimed to be fair and balanced. He just doesn't like either side very much. I haven't watched his latest movie yet so, I only have my own opinions to go on...not Michael Moore's. Since you must have watched the movie, tell me what part bother's you AcidMaX?

Andy, without examples to back your case it's more reasonable to judge your claim as the expression of your personal emotional opinion than it is to judge your claim as possibly objectively true.

Since one of the framing strategies of the neocon movement is to frame media outlets that are not neocon as "liberal" and "leftist" without defining those terms, I suspect you are just repeating the frame you have become comfortable with.

Critical thought and framing are not the same thing.

It's not impossible that your emotional claim is correct, that all the big media besides Fox is "liberal-biased", but asserting it is not the same as arguing it.

I havn't watched that movie, because I wont contribute to the liars propoganda. I have seen Bowling for Columbine and I don't agree with his views on many subjects. Especially when it comes to gun control, his ambush interview tactics his lies about who is responsible etc.

Just seems many people will point their finger and say "OMG there is a conservative journalist" but when it comes to pointing out someone who is so fucking biased like Michael Moore they dont want to hear it.

Maybe doing some research on your end would show that many of the big networks are liberal. Its not just my viewpoint its the viewpoint of many. Think about the concept. Many liberals hate Fox News, why? Because its conservative. Many liberals watch CNN because it conforms more to their view points. I am sure reading a bit on the web on many of the political sites out there would prove to you that this belief is not just my own, but the belief of many and there have been numerous reports of news networks as well as newspapers being biases toward the left wing.

Here are some articles to wet your whistle.

Here is one that says 30+% of the news media is liberal while ony 7 is conservative:
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/ea..._id=1000517184

Bernard Goldberg even wrote a book about the liberal bias at CBS, Katie Courac is a known Liberal. I am sure you can do research on this if you really want to know the other side.

So Andy, I'm curious, what are the top 5 issues that you feel are critical to your stance as a republican?

Don't let this descend to a bickering match. We already know the contry is divided as never before, and that there is a huge amount of hate between the two largest opposing groups.

Buit what are your issues?

Well really I am more libertarian than anything else but I do lean on the conservative side but am not hardcore by any means.

I would say the top five are:

1. Taxes
2. Education
3. Crime & Justice
4. Our Military
5. Our constitution

Many people here are upset because they feel the conservatives are fucking with their living being a pornographer. The problems people fail to see are

1. The liberals will fuck you just as bad. Different attorneys I have spoken too believe these new 2257 laws will go in regardless of republican or democrats holdingthe majority in office.

2. Many people forget that there are liberals as well who are willing to fuck you up. Do some research on Jennifer Granholm the current governer of Michigan and how she fucked up some pornographers by telling CCBILL and a couple others to shut down their processing. They did it with NO proof from her.

Being a veteran, I served during the first gulf war (did not serve overseas, I was stateside). But I saw how after Bush left office, how the democrats ruined our military downsized, cut our benefits and fucked the retirees who have served 20 years in the miltary.

For taxes I am tired of seeing all my money go out the window, and from my experience the democrats raise taxes more than the republicans. Although it may not be all income tax, we have seen huge increases in other taxes here in Michigan during a democratic reign.

Crime & Justice are very important to me. I see too many people getting off or mimimum sentences because our prisons are overcrowded etc. I think its time to put fear in people who commit crimes. For example I heard a lot of whining on another board yesterday about two girls who were killed running from the police. That is sad, but these two young women should have known better, its a lesson to othes to not commit a crime, death could be a result.

Education, once again I remember when Reagan was in office, and I remember all the great things he and the republican party did for schools. Although I believe more school teachers are liberal, I believe children should believe what this country was founded upon. I don't see a problem with saying the pledge of allegience. It is a big part of the beliefs our country was built upon.

Our constitution it seems that many liberals try to rewrite the very things that make this country great to fit their needs in every little aspect. For example the 2000 election. Electoral college and things like that ensure a balance throughout our country and the liberals continuously want to rewrite history to make things more advatageous to them.

Again, I feel that political beliefs are based on your life experiences. I grew up in a republican, god fearing household. The life experiences I have had tend to make me lean conservative, but there are many things I am not conservative about.

For example I am pro-choice, and I don't care if gays marry to be quite honest.

Oh man i'm sorry i clicked on this cuz it really "juices" me up.. LMAO..

I had to read Jim's 1st comment on Bill O'Reilly twice. |jester|

As a Liberal Republican, my biggest fear is that GWB will return to office and have the opportunity to load up the Supreme Court with "family values" candidates. I'm not afraid because my "porn" life will be invaded..but that my LIFE and every person residing in this country will have all of their constitutional rights taken away in the guise of "homeland security". It has already started.

Innocent until proven guilty is one of the founding tenents of our consititution.. but ask me where i was and WHY for 78 days from April 28 until July 13, 2004. Freedom of speech should not equate with "fear of being a criminal". (PM if you really want to know)..

The republican party of today is not the same party i joined in 1974 when i receive the right to vote. THAT republican party believed in less government interference, more states rights and a market based economy.

I have yet to figure out what this current party believes in other than promotion fear, hatred and pulling out a bible every single time they want to prove they are right.

Having lived in Manhattan during the Sharpton years, (who from NY can ever forget the Tawana Brawley inicident).. i can truly say that i'd rather have Big Al in there any day than GWB.

If i could ask GWB 1 question it would be with his 1/4 million dollar education from the best schools this country has to offer, how is it he cannot speak english any better than an immigrant who arrived penniless and had to attend night school?? |raygun|

OK i'll shut up now and go look at pussy and tit pics cuz i really need to remember to stay a-political. |rasta|

Dude, dude, that's way too much text...

And I would call those general topics, not issues. I see it as being a bit of the framing thing- you are tieing issues to huge topical words, rather than being specific.

I register as a Libertarian, because I feel both the demcraticic and republican partiers represent primarily the wealthy families and corporations of the country, and don't represent the interests of the average person or small business.

I have certain empathies for specific rebublican issues, such as gun ownership and the theory of the restriction of government size. However, I see the republicans as having no intention to restrict government. They don't have the guts to actually prune the governmental tree.

"Tax Releif" that is just a euphimism for tax delay is am economic fraud and a crime against the american people.

My issues might look like this:

1. Protecting the Constitution, especially the bill of rights and the seperation of church and state.

2. Corporate Crime and Punishment. We allow business and corporations to steal hundreds of billions and throw Martha Stewart in jail for it.

3. Energy Policy. We must take control of our own energy supply. Oil will run out, the nation which prepares for it first and best will be the most successful nation in existence in 50 years.

4. Support for Small Business. Already the nations major employer, small business is the least supported of american institutions.

5. The Protection of Americas Resources. Air, water, energy, food supplies, land, economic and civil infrastructure- without these we have no wealth. One of Governments most important roles is protection of the commons- we sell our commons to corporations at pennies on the dollar! How is that Conservative?

and 6. Concluding honorably this STUPID WAR and building an intelligent national security, something the current rebuclican ruling elite have totally failed to do.

Fuck, I've used too many words as well.

I see the neocon movement as a covert arm of the coprorate elite.

Generally I think the average neocon supporter is a fool, because they ignore their being used as pawns by a covert plutocracy.

(Added- obviously my ability to spell has gone to hell, but I trust my points are clear enough.)

I agree Freedom of Speech is what makes our country great. Innocent until proven guitly is a founding tenent, don't believe I ever said it wasn't. I simply stated that criminals have little to no fear of punishment in this country. They know that the majority of the states don't have the death penalty. My point was simply that the criminal justice system is lacking, my argument was for tougher punishment. You being in incarcerated is your business and not mine, if you were wrongly accused/imprisoned then maybe you need to fight it. (if you were that is) Look how many criminals get out with hardly any time who have committed serious crimes.

Quote:

The republican party of today is not the same party i joined in 1974 when i receive the right to vote. THAT republican party believed in less government interference, more states rights and a market based economy. I have yet to figure out what this current party believes in other than promotion fear, hatred and pulling out a bible every single time they want to prove they are right.

This I too can agree with you on, which is why I say I would say I am more libertarian then anything else. I don't like religion being pushed upon people but I dont think the pledge of allegiance is religious, to me its having faith and respect for your country. I don't care for people who say I will go to hell because I don't attend church. I have other beliefs I am spiritual but I do not practice religion by attending a church.

Quote:

Having lived in Manhattan during the Sharpton years, (who from NY can ever forget the Tawana Brawley inicident).. i can truly say that i'd rather have Big Al in there any day than GWB. If i could ask GWB 1 question it would be with his 1/4 million dollar education from the best schools this country has to offer, how is it he cannot speak english any better than an immigrant who arrived penniless and had to attend night school?? |raygun| OK i'll shut up now and go look at pussy and tit pics cuz i really need to remember to stay a-political. |rasta|

To me I believe Clinton did more damage during his 8 years when teachers were forced more and more to supply teachers with more and more of the utensils that are needed to operate a classroom then ever before. I am not a teacher so I do not have first hand knowledge but to me it seems our children have become more ignorant when it comes to education. I don't know if it could be attributed to bad schools, bad parenting or bad government, maybe a combination of the 3. This was happening well before Bush took office, thats for sure.

Enjoy your evening.

There is just way too much text on this page to read.

I both agree and disagree with everything and I only glanced at a few sentences here and there.

Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich by promising to protect each from the other. :D

I agree both parties have gone extreme when it comes to politics but let me make some other points about your beliefs as well.

In regards to #2, Martha should be thrown in jail, SHE LIED!!! She lied under oath, thats what she is going to jail for. Being someone who lost a lot of money when I was an engineer with WorldCom I am pissed that big business is allowed to ass rape the american people to. I would have been retired already and not having this conversation on an adult message board if Bernie Ebbers hadn't fucked my stocks up so bad I didn't have a pot to piss in.

#3 - I agree as well however, many liberals have fought against the use of using the oil reserves at ANWR because they feel it will ruin the habitat for the Caribou. Even the Alaskan government doesn't object to turning over 2000 acres to the US to drill for oil and this oil from what I understand would supply us with tons of oil, although the exact amounts have been varying depending on what you read and where you read it. Clinton-Gore actually increased our demand on foreign oil during their tenure from 1.8 million barrels to 2.4 million barrels (Let Freedom Ring - Sean Hannity). According to his book and US Geological Surveys, they say that over 16 billion barrels could be pulled from ANWR (over 1.5 million acres large , but only using 2000 acres). That is equivalent to what we would bring in from the middle east in approx 30 years.

#4 I could agree with you on, and adding making insurance affordable to the individual as well as the small business owner.

#6 - I believe is also a major issue because of many of the democrats. Did you know that John Kerry wrote a report in the 1980's that said our government was responsible for injecting cocaine into our country? Did you know that Robert Toricelli (Senator & Democrat) with help from the Clinton-Gore administration enforced reform on the CIA telling them that they couldn't use informants who had criminal backgrounds or felony convictions. Seems pretty pointless doesn't it? Who better to know about crime then a criminal.

My point is simply that no side is perfect I agree that the republicans also have issues. But so many people blame everyone on the republicans instead of doing a little research. There are fucked up people on both sides.

The numbered points are "issues". It's my "belief" that the neocon movement is a covert arm of the corporate elite. Altho I am prepared to defend that belief with an organized argument. ;-}

As for Martha, I think she got off just as easy as the wealthy always do in our corrupt judiciary. If you or I stole $50k we'd be in jail a lot longer, and not in a nice jail either.

But corporate crime is the single largest parasite on the economic health of this country, and all the other coprorate criminals are getting slaps on the wrist. Neither party is willing to stand up to this consistent pattern of fraud and theft and mismanagement of public capital, but I see the republicans as being especially subserviant to corporate interests.

As for the alaskan oil reserves, see my point on selling the common resources at pennies on the dollar. That oil is our energy retirement account, and to sell it off early at a fraction of it's potential value to make a few companies rich is an economic obscenity and a criminal act against the american people.

(I could insert a long argument about oil companies and their crimes, consider it implied...)

It's a fraud argument, this alaskan oil thing. It's only brought up because of the political power of the oil companies. We need a new energy vision, let's hold off taking that oil until we really need it, it's the only conservative and sensible thing to do with it.

The neocons are not conservative, they are the very antithesis of conservative.