Shouldn't we all be getting raided by now?
 

What happened to the Hoooopla over 2257 regs?

Aren't the men in black suppose to be knockin' down webmaster's doors demanding papers already?

Dunno, there were flock of Chicken Littles here, perhaps they flew to the next pessimistic issue?

Shit...you mean I'm workin in this 5 mile deep nuclear bunker for nothin?

Good question.

My thinking is that it was just a bunch of scare mongering and hyped up bullshit to scare webmasters by certain content providers and a draconian government. Also, at least one provider has been intentionally profiting off this fear. |sad|

How often do you hear of people getting taken down due to 2257, if ever? Sure that could change but... If I had to hazzard a guess, if lawsuits start flying they will be very targeted at first. The industry will have time to react and move offshore as necessary. :)

My question would be has the law passed, every said there was that 60 day grace period or whatever, are in the middle of that?I beleive the law was suppose to pass on august 24th so that would mean october 24th is when it takes affect.

October 24th? BRING IT ON!!!!!

;)

First, there is no law to be passed...the issue was a proposed revision to the rules of enforcement, requirements placed on webmasters, and revised definitions of text within 18 USC 2257. There was no actual proposal to change sec. 2257 itself, and nothing to be "passed." Congress does not vote on rule changes.

Second, the "proposed rules" were published, after which there was a mandatory 60 day public comment period. After the public comment period the DOJ can take however much time they want to review the public comments and whatever else they choose to consider before publishing actual "revised rules" in the Federal Register.

Third, after the rules are published there is a 30 day grace period for people to get compliant.

IF the DOJ ever adopts revised rules, they will do so in their own sweet time. If new rules are published everyone will have 30 days to get compliant. Those few complete idiots who pulled their sites at the end of the public comment period deserve to be out of business, since they acted in panic without a full understanding of the process. There was no way they were in any danger yet.

Thanks for clearing that up.

I firmly believe this to be right…

Even with the lead Bush has – the race is still tight. They pushed a ruling on the 2257 issue “at least 90 days back” from what I heard. That being said, it will be till after the election before any action is taken. Everything in the country is about politics right now. Here are some examples:

Bush let Clinton’s assault weapons ban expire to appease the NRA, even though it was a bad idea.

Cheney waffled some on the party hard-line on gay marriage in the debates to win some gay support.

By these same token, Bush will not prosecute the adult industry till AFTER he wins the next election. Could you imaging the fallout, not only from the adult community but also the public in general for sending people to prison of paperwork violations? It would have him look like the rightwing nut-job! Which he is! He will also lose him some of the support he seems to enjoy from some people in this industry for some mysterious reason.

However, after the next election, Bush will be a lame duck, so he will have four years to push his conservative agenda down our throats. He can’t get elected again, so who cares? Give Bush 4 more years and he will be ten times as dangerous as he is now and there will be a lot of people in this industry bound for Club Fed.

Vote Kerry and take out the trash before the trash takes us out!

AMEN! Let's give Bush the |knockout| |lightsabe in November!

I wish I could vote in the US elections. Its up to all you Americans to get out and vote....we are all depending on you!

cheers,
Luke

I have been practicing scuttling my office as my wife raids it wearing a John Ashcroft mask and a Nazi uniform. Then, as she demands my 2257 records, I push her to the floor for a short bout of anal sex with me yelling 'how's that feel Mr. Ashcroft?' We've run this raid drill twice a day for the last three weeks. It is very taxing. Does the bit about the mask sound gay to you? It's difficult to remain erect while thinking about Ashcroft. Have you heard him sing?

|jester| |jester| |jester|

Thank you so much for the first piece of 2257 humor that made me laugh out loud.

And, yes...I have heard him sing. Funny what some people do when they finally get a little power and somebody points a camera at them.

|potleaf| Long live the Resistance |potleaf|

lmao, thats just what i needed with my morning coffee ;)

I feel the same way, somtimes I feel like I watch too much canadian news and daly show with john stewart, because with all thats said on those programs I dont understand how anybody could possibly vote for bush in their right mind.|sad|

You are indeed a sick, sick man. |jester|

Well said Jay and thanks for the sanity check.

No, the sky isn't falling, but you're a fool if you don't have your umbrella in place. IF Bush wins re-election (and I'm hopeful that's a very big IF at this point) you can bet on some petty prosecutions, because neither Bush nor his cronies would have much to lose at that point. They'd be free to enforce their bizarre agenda without immediate political repurcussions. And if you think they wouldn't, you're clueless.

For that matter, even if Bush doesn't win, he has a couple of months left in which to wreak havoc. Get your duckies in a row. Don't freak out; just make sure you're compliant. That's always been good advice.

Their back...;)

Perhaps I am one of those 'Chicken Littles'. However, with the Bush administration, it's paid off to watch the sky.

Six month's into the planning and near implementation of a cyber head shop for a friend and business associate, we pulled the plug. Some people thought we where being 'Chicken Little".

That was just before the Feds busted Tommy Chong and started seizing head shop inventories and jailing the proprietors. My friend is sitting on about fifty thousand dollars in fine glass pipes, water pipes and other "paraphernalia". But neither of us is sitting in jail.

So that furious anger and near panic some of us have felt when the porn industry was targeted doesn't seem so idiotic or far fetched.

If Bush gets re-elected and porn prosecutions do not follow within the first year, I'll quit |potleaf| for six months.

And I voted for the ass the last election. I've been watching his moves and Ashcroft's crusades. He IS a right wing nut job. He just had a lot of us fooled.

|potleaf| Long live the Individualists |potleaf|

domweb
I hate to simplify it this way but, selling drug paraphernalia is a little different than what we do. I like to compare apples to apples and I have not seen a lot of 2257 arrests since it's inception several years ago.

True enough, Jim, but AFAIK there hadn't been any paraphernalia busts (at least not federal ones) for years either, until Parson Ashcroft decided it was time to make an example out of Tommy Chong.

Part of the nasty power-play of this sort of government threat is to let you know "we can move against you any time we want to." Both the porn and paraphernalia biz are related - in the sense that operating either one is always a calculated legal risk in a way that selling sandwiches or lawnmowers is not. And so it's up to each individual to make their risk assessments for themselves. Hopefully we all make intelligent assessments, based on our own research and legal advice.

It's a lot different. Drugs are illegal. Full stop. Selling something physical that is associated with something that is illegal is just painting yourself with a bullseye.

It always amazes me when people publicly admit to using weed. No matter how common or what you think or your social circle thinks- you can go to jail for that shit.

That football asshole comes to mind. How fucking stupid can one get?

We may associate with and promote a very basic instinct, but it is not illegal.

Well, I dunno. It's a fact still (with a lot of case law to back it up) that any prosecutor, anywhere, can bring a prosecution against any webmaster, anywhere, for disseminating obscenity in the particular county or jurisdiction of the prosecutor. They may not get a conviction, but they'll always get good press about "wiping out porn in Podunk." Never mind that the webmaster or producer in question may live in NYC or SF or some liberal bastion.

Plus, the feds aren't immune to trying, either. Look at the nasty federal prosecution Extreme Associates is going through right now thanks to Fuhrer Ashcroft. It's all perfectly "legal" until a jury decides that putting object A into slot B violates "local community standards."

Just when you think it safe to go outside the sky starts to fall...Useless Warrior I'm with ya. ;)

Well, I'm not claiming the sky is falling. Just suggesting that it's always good to keep one's roof inspected and acknowledge that hail & hurricanes can occasionally happen. |brick

I am NOT a proponent of unsafe sex slinging :D

Good to keep all monitors and hard drives encased in latex. |rasta|

Ummmm....actually it is.

Sex outside of the missionary position is illegal in most states. Blow jobs are illegal in most states. Saying "fuck" is illegal in most states.

But my point wasn't comparing water pipes to porn galleries. My point is that they are both targets in Ashcroft's radar and he's taken one down already.

Tell you what. If two years from a Bush re-election there aren't at least ten arrests on 2257 violations, I own any one here who can find me at a convention a drink.

Having put my material goods on the line, I now retire any further comments on 2257.

All you guys (Jim, Sufn, Alphawolf) that are going on about how what we are doing is so much different than people who sell glass pipes. All you guys are DEAD WRONG! In fact, in a lot of ways, we are more at risk – the proposed 2257 is a perfect example.

Look how fast they closed down the online head shops? The Feds tool out one trophy operator (Cheech) and look how the online smokeshop industry crumbled. Fact is, pipes are not drug paraphernalia till you put drugs in them.

Don't be some complacent and think "the sky isn't falling" -- because it very well could -- it would only require that Bush gets his 4 more years (refer to my 1st post in this thread). Instead of trying to prove how cool, calm, and collected you are about the state of the industry -- why don't you do something about it and get Bush and his AG out of office this November?

If that doesn't happen - you'd better get your helmets because the SKY WILL FALL.We are NO DIFFERENT than the "drug pushers" in the eyes of the right wing zealots of this administration.

No worries, Jay. I'm votin' for Sir Talks A Lot. :)

My Mother hasn't voted in years- and she's also voting for Kerry.

My buddy will also be voting for Kerry and he previously liked Bush.

It seems from the people who stay low key about politics...they are voting for Kerry...from my limited personal experience.

It will still be close, but I feel consident Kerry will edge out.

You are the #1 Chicken Little :D

Will someone please tell me what that means? I don't get it.

This should explain. I found it with a quick search on google. Quite funny. :)

Certain drugs may be illegal, but I see no justification for making so-called drug paraphernalia illegal. Plenty of tobacco aficionados prefer a water pipe to a cigarette. People with no interest in cocaine use razor blades. I used to get eyed at the "head shop" when I bought gram vials (used them to mix my own essential oil blends). Just because somebody could use a device for illegal purposes doesn't mean they will.

Furthermore, porn IS illegal in some states. My home state is one example. I never would have started in this business while living there. Store clerks were getting arrested because they sold Penthouse. I am not making this up.

In the US, business is regulated. If you fail to follow regulations, you may very likely find yourself being fined and/or arrested. This is nothing new. To suggest that following regulations is behaving like "Chicken Little" is absurd. Go open a sidewalk bar without a license and see how long you last.

If you don't like the laws, fight them, don't ignore them.

And for those not in the US, obviously what I'm discussing doesn't pertain to you. :)

Chicken Little #2

Surfn - why don't you tell a judge that? Then you will be federal inmate Chicken Little #8768765-A.

Stop sleeping on this shit bro!

You have no idea what my plans are.

No idea how politically active I am.

No idea how I contribute to what.

This is not my first rodeo! What you are doing is needless using scare tactics to make yourself look "in the know".

And you have no idea what _My_ plans are.

You have no idea have politically active _I_ am.

You have no idea how _I_ contribute to what.

So how do YOU know I am a Chicken Little?

I don't think that I am "in the know". If I knew it all, I wouldn't spend time on these forums trying to learn.

So...anyone who might disagree with your ideas thinks the sky is falling?

Here's what I DO know.

I know the anti-porn crowd. I grew up in it. I have seen the poor people looking for a 'crusade for justice' to distract them from their miserable lives. I know the people who NEED to fight for something 'holy'. These are people who need to feel good so badly, they ache for an unholy enemy to 'smite for the Lord.'

And Porn has been a rallying cry for the Hard Right for awhile now. It plays better with the Moderate Right than the whole 'the UN is the Anti-Christ' thing.

These people have been ramping up their crusade since the first porn pic hit a BBS and the first adult video stores opened in the USA. They are normally harmless, as most people have more sense than they do.

The difference is that one of these 'crusaders' got appointed to run the Justice Department. This same crusader gave speeches on the evils of pornography and starting monkeying under the hood of 2257.

I don't think the sky is falling. But I do watch the weather.

|potleaf| Question Authority. Question Anti-Authority.|potleaf|

Go flip burgers, that's fairly safe. :)