G.L. Gross enterprises ripped me off!
 

I know some of you LL owners promote this program:
http://kissinggirls.xxx.us/webmasters.html

Goes by the name ggross

After weeks of trying to get my money from him for design work he finally sent it. Better yet, his wife sent it because everytime I've tried talking to him on ICQ what was supposedly his wife answered me and said he was out of town.. Anyway, today I find out that he charged back and now I have a negative balance in my paypal account which is putting me in a tight spot because that's pretty much the only popular method I have of getting paid for my designs and I don't have the extra cash to bring it back to normal...


If you know these people, please be aware that they will screw you over.

That sucks |angry|

Well this sucks, I just added his site to my link list.

I'm going to wait and see for a bit to see how this pans out.

I'm not gonna take sides oh this either until we hear from ggross - I just sent him an ICQ with this thread, so let's go from there I guess.

I'm not asking anyone to take sides. To be honest, this thread is to basically try and get the money back that he owes me.

I'll provide screen caps of my paypal account, forward ICQ logs.. whatever it takes to prove I'm not just trying to flame someone. I've been in this business for 4 years. Some of you know me, some of you don't.. those that do know me know that I won't just talk shit about someone for the fun of it...

o e me....

I have a project that you might want to work on....

~Bell


evelyn937 @ LYCOS cot com

Osiris - my post wasn't meant to be a shot at you, more of a "let's hear both sides of the story 1st" kinda thing.

We're here to help & we'll help you get to the bottom of this :)

I understand, and I didn't take as a shot at me. |shake| Just trying to let everyone know that I don't just go around and say things without it being true. I hope this can be solved... I'd like to hear his reasoning for doing this.. He has all the work, I don't owe him anything so he had no reason to charge back.. |sad|

I will not dignify this with a reponse except to say that it is being taken care of. And Larry's designs are no longer on my sites. He is susposed to post when it get's taken care of on Thursday. If you would like to pull my sites, go ahead,no hard feelings. This is something that should have been handled in private by two working partners. I apologize for dirtying up the boards.

ggross

Gary Gross
Rochester,NY

Ok, a small update... I've talked to paypal twice. The first time they told me it was charged back by the buyer. The second time they told me I should have recieved an e-mail so they sent it out again... Here's part of the message. The important part if you ask me...
If any of you need me to forward the original to verify let me know where to send it...


Paypal did the chargeback because:

We regret to inform you that you received funds from an account with
reports of fraudulent bank account use.


To protect myself from this happening a second time, I've requested that he send the money via western union. I'll let you all know when I pick it up...

I'd advise any other designers not to do any business with this guy if he's wanting to use paypal as the method of payment..As far as any other business goes. I don't assume there will be any problems..

Larry,

I am not going into a flaming war with you in public. This is not the forum for it. You have been paid. What more do you want, Blood ? Now all you are trying to do is cause damage to me & I would like to know why.

I had 30 items hit the bank the same day from paypal. Some of them were susposed to be on my credit card. My wife did not switch method of payment on the paypal screen, so yours were returned to Pay Pal for Insufficient Funds.

The bank (Citibank) then froze the account & my credit card because they thought someone had stolen it & was running up charges. I'm sure that other people on here can verify that banks do that to protect themselves from paying out just in case it was stolen. So when Paypal tried to resubmit the items for payment, even though my account had been funded to cover everything, they got that message from the bank. I had to go up there this morning in person to get the block lifted. So everything is fine now.

Your payment was sent by Western Union this morning. Since that is what you requested. You are now paid in full for your work. As I said to you on ICQ last night, why the hell would I try to cheat you, when I gave you my personal FTP info when you were doing the designs ? All you had to do was open up my site & delete everything from my server at any time you wanted & you could have fucked me over good. Hell, you still can, I haven't changed anything. And I won't, because I trust you. I told you that I would give you 10% of the sites because i thought you did an excellent job on the designs. and I don't go back on my words, so you still have that even though you now seem intent on ruining me for some reason. And I would still recommend you to anyone looking for design work, because you do a good job & you are easy to work with.

I feel really low having to defend myself in public like this. You have my phone number, this is something that could have been settled very easily between us. All you had to do was pick up the phone & call, instead of bringing it here. I understand you being pissed, but it could have been handled differently. You don't need to try to turn other people against me, I honestly can't understand the reasons behind that.

Once again, I apologize to the board members here for this being brought to the boards. And for those of you that signed up for my Affiliate Programs, if you decide to pull my links, I understand. And there will be no hard feelings. Please just let me know so I can remove you & not contact you concerning that matter.

Thank you for your time.

Gary Gross
G. L. Gross Enterprises
ICQ: 166484251

I'm not trying to start a war with you man. I'm just letting other designers know that if they are going to deal with you not to use Paypal as the method of accepting funds... Simple as that.

Being a Citibank customer myself, I can verify that they will freeze account at the drop of a dime if they think there is fraud. Sometimes it's a pain in the ass that they have so much security in place, but then after I get off the phone with them to verify a charge or a check, I do feel better that they are watching my back :)

I did some design work for ggross, and not only did he pay me but he payed me before i even started. I have delt with a lot of people who i thought may be scammers but he is not one of them. I hope you guys can work this out because ggross is a good honest guy.

I've also had Citibank kick in their security on me. On the laptop that I'm typing this on it took two phone calls from Citibank and one phone call from me to Citibank before they where convinced that it was really me buying this laptop.

Then again I've also had my credit card info stolen more then a few times so as much of a hassle it is at times I'm glad to see them being careful. You don't want to ever have someone from the Russian embassy get a hold of your info and go on a shopping spree. Thrust me I know a lot about this one form having it done to me, lol.

Freudian!? :D

DD

I have recieved the money from Gary.

Perhaps I should have been more patient about the whole thing... do I regret posting this? No, I don't.. do I offer my apologies...Yes I do. However, I still have a few doubts that I'll keep to myself since I'll be kicking a dead horse in his bloated balls if I bring it up... LOL


Things are straight between me and Gary... |shake|

Greenguy, Cleo & Mydnight,

This is to inform you that I'm shutting down my affilaite program. I just lost 11 Affiliates because I am now a questionable webmaster, even though a third party processor handles all of those details for the Affiliate Program. I will leave your links intact till the end of the month, but then I'm shutting down. It's just not worth the hassle anymore. I'll just stick to promoting other sponsors & doing TGP & Free Sites, this way I won't have this hassle anymore.

I appreciate your kindness & the welcome you gave me. I'll still be around the boards .

Later,

Gary

This is why this should have never been brought to the board - now this guy is fucked because of a banking error that was out of his control.

Leave the program up - I'll keep promoting it :)

Like I told you on ICQ I wasn't taking down your links. In fact I told you to build some more galleries.

Running a paysite is a hassle, it is the reason I stopped running one, but I don't think that you should let this little misunderstanding stop you.

Anyway I'm leaving your links up. Let me know in a month if you still want to close it.

Hey can someone shoot a linkf or the affiliate program, I will check it out. Im sure fromt he conversation here it was just a bank error and I would love to try out another program

That would be this link
http://kissinggirls.xxx.us/webmasters.html

This is the site
http://kissinggirls.xxx.us/

Im am very unhappy to hear that you are no longer going to be running your program. I think you are an honest guy who runs a good buisniess, and i dont think you should let a little thing like this get you down.

Yep, this is my fault. I can admit when I'm wrong and I do feel pretty bad about this. Everyone is allowed a mistake or two though right?

I've told Gary I would do whatever I could to make it up and I meant that. He has paid me, I have the money. He's done his part.. now I'd like to make this better if that's possible..

A public apology...
 

This may be too little too late but it's something I think I should do.


After talking to paypal the other morning I blew a lid and posted things I shouldn't have without first going to the person that was involved. In doing this, I've caused hell for him and for this I'm sorry. Everyone makes mistakes, this is one I made...

Prior to this happening I've only have one delay in getting money from Gary. Other then that, he's paid on time and upfront.

I really have no excuse as to why I posted other then me being highly stressed and tired of getting screwed over without saying anything about it. I said something this time and I was wrong in doing so...

Anyway, to those of you that dropped using his program. Give the man another shot.. I'll even use it if he puts it back up..

I also want to make an apology to all the members of this board. Sorry guys, hopefully I can be forgiven and won't be lynched..

You won't be lynched...
And, everyone learned something....In this business, shit happens. Always think of the worst of people, last.

Osiris - I think your last post speaks for itself - we all fuck up form time to time & hopefully we can all be forgiven :)

I'm just gald that everything got worked out.

This is why the board is here. :)

One comment from me. I learned a long time ago to be as diplomatic as possible when bringing something like this to the boards in case it turns out to be nothing more then a misunderstanding.




|roses|

BTW - I combined the 2 threads so that everything was in it's proper place :)

ggross

Don't give up. Learn from everything that happened. Ask everyone here, I have been fucked twice because of banks. The first time I was quite pissed the second time I threw in the towel. Fortunately for me, my business partner as well as many webmasters on this board wouldn't let me give up. I learned from everything that happpened.

Now mind you I realize the outcome for you was losing 11 webmasters as well as one designer lynching you on a public board but webmasters come and go. Bad publicity can be turned into good publicity. I never heard of your program until now. Keep pushing your program and get new webmasters. Don't give up over a misunderstanding / paypal fuckup / hot headed webmasters.

If you need any work done to help you get back on / stay on your feet hit me up.


Osiris, I too have jumped the gun when something fucked up with payment. I Feel bad about it, but everything was forgiven and I learned from it. I have lost my ability to cash checks over it but I have moved on and found other ways to deal with the problem. NObody is going to lynch you here. Everyone is cool here. Ya live, ya piss, ya learn :)

You did end up with a whole thread that got viewed by many webmasters who now know about your program who wouldn't otherwise.

BTW: I really liked the tour that Osiris did, maybe you should think of putting it back up now that the two of you have worked things out. :)

Osiris, I'm really wanting to stay out of this, but you also posted some comments on another board, and even gave some very bad feedback on GGross calling him/her a thief.

After your post was removed for attacking someone, (which is a new rule under the new owner ship) you made another post that you tried to insult everyone else there saying it's nothing but "amateurs"

Since everything here seems to be cleared up, I would hope you would do the same else where.

I’m willing to bet that had you said word for word here what you did there it would also have been removed.

Just MHO....

Thanks for not getting the rope out.. |jester|


I told Gary he didn't have to remove the tours at all. I'm glad to see that he's got them back up... |shake|

I am going to have to state the obvious here

this ggross guy needs to do some apologizing too. I mean come on here... hes the one that fucked up his payment process


anyone have any idea how hard it is to get paypal back trusting you? if someone did this to me I would have his balls for dinner LOL

Its incredibly hard to go thru this shit time and time again... loosing face with the banks, loosing trust at paypal without getting pissed off.

Personally I think Osiris showed alot of restraint in this thread. All of you think back to a time when someone fucked with your business... what did you do sit back and say something "ohhh it will be okay no problem that I cannot use paypal for a payment proccessor anymore" or did you say you would have their balls for dinner?

I did apologize to Osiris, but I have tried to keep things off the board. That is what ICQ,email & the telephone are for. Larry & I have had a good working relationship, & , as far as I'm concerned we still do. And I can still use Paypal, my Bank had thought my card had been stolen so they put a freeze on my account until it was straightened out. No biggy. And I also apologized to the board members.

But that is past. Shit happens. I took the weekend off, got FUBAR'ed, & now I'm back. The tour Larry did is back up (which was the only one that was selling). I got my head back on straight, thanxs to you guys. I noticed some people asked for the webmaster page, which is here: http://kissinggirls.xxx.us/webmasters.htm . New banners to use are here: http://kissinggirls.xxx.us/webmasters/banners.htm . There will be a whole webmasters area up by tomorrow evening, with galleries, content, tgp templates, free sites, ect. There will be 4 sites total, with all site designs done by Larry. As I said before, he is an excellent designer. And, his stuff sales.


So, on to better things. Cleo, I sent you 2 new hosted galleries. GG, I sent you 2 hosted Free Sites. If anyone else signed up & needs hosted stuff, contact me. Please check out my new post I am getting ready to do. Maybe you can help me find the scripts I need.

Larry & all board members, i apologize once again. |shake|

Later,

Gary

wow think of the milage you could get by leveraging that madonna/brittany kiss...

"If you loved the Madonna & Brittany kiss, wait to you see these babes in action"


|jester|

Not a bad idea at all. But I would have to think over the legality of that one. Using a celebs name, I think that is Illeagal. Not sure.

I'm not a lawyer and don't even play one in the bedroom but…


Seems to me that you could get away with something like, Girls who love to kiss girls just like Madonna and Brittany do. ;)

True. Look for some new hosted galleries. |couch|