Question For All
 

I have a question, but first a little catch up. Bear with me.

I have been in this business since 1996, always trying to produce original sites and offer something different from the same ol same ol. I have submitted to countless links pages over the years but have seen a scary trend over the past few years which has discouraged me from submitting to links pages any more. Links pages are trying to dictate how we design our sites, what is acceptable, and what is not acceptable. They all have their own guidelines and in so doing have suceeded in creating countless sites that look alike! By far the worse listings are on Persian Kitty where 80% of those listed are nothing more then AD pages, but still follow their guidelines. I've been listed on Persian Kitty off and on, and about up to 4 years ago the traffic was good enough to persuade you to join the crap and design another carbon crappy site just to get listed, but then the traffic got lower and I said the hell with that I don't need it any more.

My question is why aren't more webmasters voicing their disaproval about link pages "guidelines" or restrictions? I think a links page should offer links, NOT judge content or design. If more webmasters had the balls to speak up you would see more and more link pages easying up on their "guidelines".

I know what some may say, we need some sort of guide lines, and I agree, but links pages go way too far! Beyond any common sense and entering a film critics stage! So why keep silent about it? Speak up! If you don't like the guidelines do NOT submit!

I get the same crap from billers too! CCBill didn't like some of my keywords in meta tags, I told them if they didn't like it they can F**K off! I now use another biller. We webmasters take too much sh*t from too many people. We need to stand up for ourselves and stick up for each other. As long as our sites are book legal, nothing else should matter.

Now can any one direct me to a good links page and not a site critic? |waves|

Kindest Regards to all!

Jimbo,

I dont believe that your views are going to get much agreement here....

Linklists have rules for very specific reasons(and so does CCBill for that matter), and those rules are designed to ensure the success and longevity of those linklists.

If I start listing crap.. surfers leave and so does my traffic, and therefore your listed site goets no traffic..... it's that simple

DD

Jimbo, I actually had a nice long post all written, re-read it, and then decide that I could sum it all up better much more quickly in a simple statement:

if you don't like it, move along and build your own. Nobody is forcing you to submit to those link sites, just in the same way nobody forced you to use ccbill. If you don't like it, start your own.

It's that easy!

Alex

But I'm seeing crap now, aren't you? I agree we need some guidelines, but many lists go too far. The only thing we are succeding in doing is producing carbon copy sites. As for ccbill, how does mega tags effect longevity? They break no laws. As I said, as long as a site is book legal, nothing else should matter. When we start nit picking over keywords or becoming site critics because we just don't like the design, we go too far. Certainly there should be some guidelines, but I believe most lists go too far. Take a few minutes and go thru some of the links on PK. And come back and tell me if this proceedure is working. I would be verry suprised if most webmaster would not agree with this, atleast privately any way.

to RawAlex
 

I believe I said basically the same thing. My question is why more webmasters don't speak up|rasta|

Jimbo,
I think if you look around a little here, you will find that people disagree on certain points all the time. I agree with parts of your post, and disagree with others.

You have hit on the main reason lists can do this (beside's the fact that it is their list). It is supply and demand. As long as there are hundreds of people standing in line for the traffic (no matter how strict the rules), then there is no reason to change a thing.

I do disagree with this statement though:
For the most part, I am pretty lenient about the sites I review. But, I will not list sites that talk of "y*oung boys/girls", I will not list fantasy inc*st sites, and I don't list sites where the theme of the site is a passed out drunk woman getting fucked. These sites may be perfectly legal, but I still don't list them. I haven't banned any sponsors per se, but I don't list Little April sites either. Nothing against the guys running it. I think they are legit, but that girl just looks very young in everything.

I guess this was a long way of saying I understand your frustration, and try not to dictate how my submitters build their sites, but a few rules aren't such a bad thing.

Jennifer

Just as DD said, most of the rules are in order to keep quality high for our surfers. When I started my LL a few months back, I was determined to keep the rules simpler than most of the other LLs out there. I have slowly but shurely been forced to adopt more rules just to cut down on the number of absolute crap submissions. Again if I list crappy sites and my surfers don't come back, no sites on my list get any traffic. Now, my LL isn't all that big yet, but you know what? I built the list up and continue to spend countless hours driving traffic to it...and it's MY traffic.

If you take a good look at most of the LL rules out there, they are MINIMUMS and DON'Ts. It all boils down to this: Build quality sites with quality content that don't promote illegal crap or try to trick surfers and aren't banner farms, and you will get listed in most places. It's sad that we have to break that simple concept down into 20+ rules in order to get the message across, but LL rules are a response to the quality of submissions, not the cause of it.

to jennym
 

I've been creating special niche sites right from the start. I have taken the drunk passed out girls theme to the limits, even hypnotised, comatose, if you can think of it, we did it! And All of my material is original and custom made! Been doing it since 1996. Have made a living off it, WITHOUT any links to any lists too. It just saddens me that nobody will list it because soo much work goes in to it. You can't buy content like mine, you have to make it yourself. Is it filthy? Yes. But we deal in born, it's suppose to be dirty and filthy. I started with the passed out girls and shemales back in 96 and have tried almost everything. Ironically, the material that most people "object" to are the most lucrative...
GO FIGURE!

Kindest Regards!

Re: to jennym
 

What is it about the pk links that mean when you say "not working"?

Of course the borderline illegal and illegal sells well.

So Jimbo...

Your complaint is that LL's wont list your sites that are in fact 'rape' sites?

Why are you surprised by this?

It will ALWAYS be the choice of each LL as to what they list.... that will never change.

DD

borderline??? either it's legal or not. If it's legal, no problem. If it's illegal Big Problem. That was all I was saying. The problem lies with this "borderline" mentality (no offense), because we insert our own personal views when we really shouldn't.

For example, what if I find but f**king guys totally immoral and sick and should be illegal, what if I found that just as sick as CP? And I then proceeded to reject any sites for having it? See where I'm going? We can't, or shouldn't let our personal feelings influence links. We need to be able to seperate our personal feelings and simply go by the laws, insert some good comon sense rules and guidelines is all I am advocating.

Regards!

The problem I see with passed out drunk girls, is this. How do I know it's legal? If it is thrown out there as 'rape', then that is how I am going to perceive it. I don't know who shot the content, I don't know anything about it. I look at it, I see rape, I decline.

Start you own list and then you can ban butt fucking men then if you want to.

My list, my rules. Follow them and submit or don't submit… that choice is yours.

I'm actually more interested in the PK comment than the borderline thing, but I'll answer your borderline question.

I say borderline because some things are illegal in certain states or countries, and that exposes the publisher to obscenity cases. Drunk girls for instance is at least theoretically illegal in several states ( no actual prosecutions that I know of...). Bondage with penetration is illegal in Canada, for example. That's why I say borderline.

There is no such thing as something either being illegal or it's not. All law is subject to interpretation at any time. "Morals" laws like those concerning porn are especially vulnerable to changes in the political climate.

Jimbo - I have one simple question:

Have you ever run a link list?

If your answer is "no", then please do not try & tell people that do run them how they should be run.

But they are not rape sites. I only have one passed out site or any thing like that, all my sites are different. My passed out site is based on girls passed out. Not attacked, although I have recently added attacked, why not, won't get listed any way. My site started out girls asleep, then progressed to what it is now. In fact you won't even find the word "rape" any where on my site or meta tags. BTW, the words ccbill objected to was "young" and "girls", I never had the word rape. Actually This site WAS indeed listed here on link-o-rama when it was called xxxsleepers.com, identical to it now but I decided to change the domain name. I understand how you can get rape out of it, but i do not place it in the same category, nor do rape links pages which find it too calm. Any way, rape or no rape, so what. It's on TV and the movies and nobody is objecting. Just here on the web we want to police each other. Ironic because we are all involved in porn.

Regards!

I did have a links page, I ran it for about 2 years, I also had 5 topsites. Please don't take offense. I am genuinely curious as to why things got to where they are today with out any objections.

I wasn't telling you how to run it, I was asking why more people do not object to the strict guidelines and personal opinions of "most" LL is all. In fact, I compliment you for being at least accessable!

Kindest Regards!

I pass out and someone fucks me that is rape.

What part of this do you not fucking understand?

Top Lists are a completely different animal & you can't really compare them to Link Lists. I'm sure there are some similarities, but not enough for this conversation.

How many submits a day were you getting on your "links page"?

like I said in my post,

"... I understand how you can get rape out of it"

Why is it people try to tell other people what to do with their traffic? If someone doesn't list your sites, just move on to someone that will.

I never really pushed it aggrssively so i only got at most about 10 to 20 submits a day. I understand that is nothing to what you must get even in one hour. I had rules too. I know where your coming from. I'm just saying some LL go too far thats all.

Regards!

So it would be ok then if you passed out and a guy butt fucked you?

Well, the give examples of who's gone to far & what they've gone too far with.

Throwing PK's name out there knowing that she doens't post here is not a good way to prove a point.

And you probably don't know that many Link Lists ban people on a daily basis for submitting what we call "template sites" which seem to be what you are bitching about seeing.

So let's here some examples. Post some sites that you've submitted that were declined & we can go from there.

Well said Jim some just dont get it :(

What specifically do you mean by "going too far"? What rules concern you the most?

Yes, template sites fits it very well! Many like that on PK, if you don't belive me check it out for yourself.

I don't know of any real problems with your LL, and I was not bitching because I did't get accepted, I'm use to it. I thought your message board was one of the better ones I've seen and thougt this would be a great place to discuss what I see as a common problem with most LL. As for this one I do recall reading a post here some where about some guy getting rejected because the pics of some girl did not follow in order, She started out with clothes then strips and half way threw the series she is pictured witha skirt again. That seemed like a odd reason to reject.

I don't know if you remember linking my site a few years ago when it was under the domain name xxxsleeper.com? I recently changed the name to passed-out.com, same site. If it gets accepted great, if not, no biggie.

I can totally understand the need for rules, where we probably differ, and may be we don't, is in personal opinion of legal content. I never meant to address you personally, and if I gave that impression, forgive me, I was addressing, "most" LL.

As for PK, I know her. There is nothing I said that I wouldn't say to her, and we already had simular discussions even on the phone. She knows exactly how I feel about her LL. Great lady, terrible LL.

Regards

PK doesn't post here - I don't think she posts anyplace on a regular basis - so bringing up her site & her rules on this board is useless as no one here can answer those questions.

As far as the pics out of order problem, you really think that a free site that has 20 pics total & the girl is naked, then back in her clothes, then naked, then in her panties is good?

How about the ones where she's got a load of cum on her face in pic 14 & then in pics 15-20 have her riding his cock with no goo on her face?

That's just stupid - it's like watching a movie out of order (Pulp Fiction & Memento being the 2 exceptions)

I also looked in my admin:

1 - I don't see xxxsleepers.com in there at all - it may have been listed in the past but is not anymore.

2 - I do see that http-//passed-out.com/ was submitted & I can tell by looking at the 1st page that the recip is under the entrance, there's only one recip on there, there's 2 counters & one of them is loading as a broken image. So you broke 4 rules before I even clicked on the enter link.

Looking further, I see that you have things opening in new windows, which I don't allow either.

Now, even if you fixed all 5 of those things, there is NOTHING that you could say to me to convince me that this page:
http-//passed-out.com/drugged.html
is not RAPE.

PS - I really like the pic of the girl with the gun to her head.

After seeing what kind of crap you are promoting I just hope someone catches your ass and puts you were you belong. Maybe then you can really appreciate being raped.


|skull|

So really you're bitching that nobody will list your sites. You're pandering to a market that I have no interest in, and would just as soon not have as surfers. I don't need traffic that wants to jerk off to someone being raped, or looking like they're being raped. That shit isn't even "rape fantasy," which is a niche in itself and an entirely separate conversation. If you were trying to hit that market you'd have sales text to that effect.

This is marketing to people who fantasize about raping women. I'm sure there's some good money in it. There's also probably great money in CP, but I don't want any of it and I don't want any of it listed on my LL.


EDITED TO ADD: By the way, you've got a couple banners that look like you're also promoting incest and underage girls. Nice job on the scumbag hat trick.

one of my favorites too.

May be this illustrates my point and all was not a waste of time. I believe most LL nit pick too much and try to dictate how we should design our pages. From where to put recips, to how many counters, to opening new windows to view the next page or image. The whole concept is flawed. What ends up happening is people who learn how to play the game simply throw together a bogus site just to get linked and throw up banners and links to their real page. or you see bogus advertisements for affiliate programs with pictures they got for free! Mean while rebels and true artists like myself who spend a lot of time and money and YEARS producing ORIGINAL material CAN'T get linked, it's almost laughable. I suppose I should play the game too. After all it would only take me about an hour to make a site that could get accepted, and throw some links up to my real sites. Surely you can see some of my points. As for the rape, do you object to it on the Big Screen or just on web sites?

As far as most LL go, at least you are accessable, and for that I thank you!

Happy Holidays!

Wonderful! This fucking scumbag lives about 100 miles away from me. He's also got a couple of other very questionable & probably illegal domains (just look on the whois)

Hey Jim - you know any New York State Troopers that'd be interested in hearing about a guy that runs rape, incest & CP sites?

|banghead|

Jimbo...

Nasty Dollars/RK Netmedia might also want to know about your use of stolen content

http://www.sexteengirls.com/main.html

http://www.nastydollars.com/pictures...c/ines-077.jpg

DD

PLZ, I would expect a webmaster to know better. All my material is legal and 2257 compliance. I stay well with in all laws. Been in business for 10 years (without relying on LL), will be here in 10 more years. Will you?

Like your banner, Extreme Porn... extreme???

|zzzzzzzzz

Even though you are a piece of shit scumbag, I will clarify a few of the rules for those that might be confused as to why they are in place.

recips - no one looks under the enter link, so the recip has to be above it.

counters - they have become very malicious over the last few years with spyware embedded in them & whatnot, so they are not allowed by a lot of people. Learn how to read your server stats.

opening new windows - I have never liked things opening in new windows & if I want them to do so, I can right click & choose for it to do so on my own

Now go get all that 2257 info in order :D

OMG fucking unbelievable the other crap on his server. |raygun|

This thread really needs to be moved out to the General Business forum so that everyone can see what a wonderful piece of shit Jimbo is.

No, I will not be baited. Yes, there is a lot of extreme porn out there that's well worth listing and looking at. Most of it has nothing to do with pandering to the lowest common denominator.

Nice greenguy, I post in a polite respectful manor, bring out some valid points, and you resort to name calling.

tell you what, your entitled to your opinion, just like me, and we may differ in opinions, but at least I conducted myself in a professional manor.

I really thought my post would be constructive here. Had I known it would turn ugly I would never have bothered.

But You have a Nice Holiday just the same!