question.......
 

if somebody autosubmit they dont noticed they are on the blacklist of that linksite am i right?

Could be an stupid question, but i started to doubt myself after i noticed that some people hanging here on the board are blacklisted for already more then a week, and they submit everyday and they still didnt noticed that they are blacklisted (and yes the blacklist is working) could only mean one thing for me...they are autosubmitting

now fuck nobody can answer this one for me???? oke then i know what to do:D and yeah they are not only blacklisted at those *** sites but also at the other i do.....Stu<----getting tired to talk to herself ##@##$$$$

Just accept that there are people out there who are using less than honest methods to submit.

That is why most of us don't mention anything when they are blacklisted or blocked. Some people actually just give them the same result page for their submit and don't say a word.

It's all in how you look at it.

Don't know for sure stu but you'd think they would see the 'you are blacklisted page'.

i know Raw alex,. but i expected some more honesty from free site submitters who hang around here who are fucking blacklisted.....goddamnnnn this makes me in an very very bad mood, not at you raw alex, just the ones who hang around here and ackd like an honest webmaster, :D try this blacklist every submitter you have and i mean all ( and those are alot at some linksite i do) and watch who will responde, so say i blacklisted about 250 people and on this moment after an week only 11 people reponde, thats fucking bad, so it seems some are not like they say they are and i am talking about people who hang around here and at ans..nice..NOT |satan|

hya jel:) well you would think that yes, but believe me they can ask now the ones who submit everyday, they will stay on that fucking blacklist, even if they where the queen lol, and yeah i am in an bad mood doohhhhh |shocking|

If you have a problem with auto submits and don't want to use a "type this number" type of thing, then change the name of the "title" field occasionally (eg instead of "title" use "title 2" etc.), then set your script to junk all submissions without an entry in that field. You won't even see the auto submissions.

Or if you do not have the ability to change your script, just move the submit page to a different page and put a "click here to submit" button on your old page. "Real" webmasters will see the link and go to the new page, but auto-submitters won't.

I recently deleted my blacklist records (I only had about 30 or so) due to innocent submitters being caught in the IP range.

Waddaya know, the second the ban was lifted the same crappy shit started coming again. Apparently these idiots just keep submitting never even knowing they've been BL'd. I ban by domain now.

You blacklisted entire IPs when one person on that IP is bad ???? Hell I thought that went out somewhere about the time we discovered fire !

The worst part about your situation is that many of your banned submitters will not even have known that they were banned (blanket auto-submit), whereas a lot of honest submitters who got blocked because they share IP's with crooks will be aware that you blocked them, and if their submission did not break your rules and contained a recip, many will have put you on their blacklist as a cheating webmaster.

And the few genuinely cheating webmasters who are aware you banned their IP will have simply switched IP.

What can I say, there's a learning curve to running a LL. :D

I'm not too worried about webmasters being unfairly caught up in the mess. The honest ones will no doubt contact me to ask what the deal is (exactly what happened). I guess cheaters are just a part of this business that we'll have to live with.

RE: "The honest ones will no doubt contact me to ask what the deal is " Not usually, there are so many bad webmasters out there that it is not worth the effort. A few will contact you, some will ignore you, others will just put you on a blacklist. (I was once given the following figures by a webmaster on another board, I have no idea how accurate they are, but no one else on the board contradicted him: For every one person who complain, you can assume ten do not. Nine of these will just never do business with you again, the tenth will tell all his friends that you are a cheater.)

Thats the nice thing about some LL scripts - once we ban them they still get the "thank you" page so they think it went through - although it really got trashed - and we never have to see it. And believe me there are hundreds of submits that go in the trash every day :)

Not a good idea. If you ban someone and tell them, at least they know they are banned, even if they don't agree with you or think you are being unfair. But if they put up your recip, get your "thank you" page, but get no traffic back from you, they are automatically going to assume you are a traffic thief and a cheater. And the odds are that they will tell other people this.

Good point actually.

ecchi - no disrespect here - but when you have people submitting hundreds of sites a day with an autosubmitter - do you really think that you would have time to send them and email to let them know?
and the argument that anyone is getting backlinks and traffic doesnt fly - but then only LL owners would understand that as we know what really counts towards backlinks and what type of traffic we get from recips - and I can tell you honestly - a submit that is banned here is probably banned everywhere - so backlinks dont count anymore - and traffic wont happen as no other LLs are listing it - but even if they did the traffic from a recip is usually in the range of 1 hit every 10 days or so - not something that really counts in the grand scheme of things :)
More importantly - and I guess this just goes back to old school stuff that Im used to - when I was submitting to LLs - I would go check my stats - and if a site didnt list me I would stop submitting.
And if they are using an autosubmitter or doing something else that breaks the rules - should I really care what happens to their site?

Fair enough, but what about sites that take weeks or months to approve a submission? Only the other day one of my sites that I submitted several months ago was approved on a list that I'd taken out of my submit table for exactly that reason.

Seems to me that if LLs don't tell someone they're blacklisted they're bound to keep on submitting, at least for a while - how are they to know that the list doesn't have a huge backlog, or they simply don't like the most recent submissions or...

Of course, cheaters must be a HUGE pain in the ass for LL owners, and I'm in favour of blacklisting every last one of em. But it seems a little unfair to do it in secret, lest other submitters become unwittingly caught in the net.

Rob.

You guys make a great case for partners only. :)

Might well be a logical solution, at that. But I suspect that too will come with its own problems - it's fine only accepting submissions from folks who've submitted before, who you trust, who can show a history etc. But what about new submitters who don't have a history yet? How will they get at history under those conditions? I suppose they could be given a probationary partnership to see how it goes, but that might be a PITA for the LL owners to administer?

Rob.

I give out partners to people I know from their submits, they have a history.

I also give temporary partners to people I don't know, who haven't submitted to me before. If they submit garbage time after time they get dropped. It's not difficult to revoke a partnership. On the other hand it's just as easy to demonstrate your ability to follow the rules and be upgraded to a full partner.

The big difference is I require real emails and real domains. When people give out their real info they are less inclined to cheat. :)

While I won't say what IPs I have blocked, I can tell you that I have many CLASS Cs blocked, and even 1 class B (255.255.X.X) just to keep the autosumitting pieces of shit from dragging my server down and wasting my time.

I feel sorry for the 1 honest webmaster in trashcanistan that can't submit. For him I am so sorry.

Alex

Sounds like a reasonable scheme from my (the submitter's) side of the fence! I'm certainly all in favour of following rules - probably why I have yet to retire to some tropical beach, but at least I sleep at nights :D

Requiring emails and domains is cool too, though I'm still not conviced about the need for personal data in whois info. Still, that's the general requirement, and it's only reasonable to follow it if I want LLs to list my sites.

Rob.

I disagree. Any honest webmaster who feels he is unfairly blacklisted will contact the LL owner to ask why. Any honest LL owner will seek to rectify an injustice. I know this business a lot better from the submitters point of view than I do the LL owner's, so I know what it's like.

Also see how quick people are to beg for un-blacklisting here on the board, whether they did something to deserve it or not.

As for getting a reputation for being a cheating webmaster, well, count the threads here outing cheating LL owners vs cheating submitters.

hey, is there any autosubmitting software to submit freesites??

if the recip is ok then add me to that software... i would let autosubmitting no my site!

:D

i'm a whore!

I guess thats a part of it I should have posted - I only take partner submits and all of these autosubmitters dont even look at that rule - and I do tell them the way they can become a partner - and its very simple - but I still get hundreds a day that dont bother reading the rules

Idiots autosubmit every day without regard for whether they are listed or not. They do NOT deserve to know if they are banned.

I too did NOT inform blocked/banned submits. Those people went right to the thanks for submitting page. I'm sure I banned them for a reason and since it had something to do with my rules then why do I need to let them know if they can't follow rules or read the countless reject emails I sent them telling them why they are not getting listed.

If webmasters are too stupid to check their stats monthly to see if certain pages are listing them then too bad for them.

The important point everyone seems to be missing here is that I am NOT saying "you should do this to be fair to your submitter" I am saying "you should do this to be fair to YOURSELF". The bottom line is: If you blacklist ANYONE who sticks to your rules, word will get round that you are a cheater (even if it is not your intention to cheat people). Not only will this reduce submissions, but most webmasters have friends who are not webmasters, but who surf for porn (i.e. your customers), and they will be telling these friends that you are a cheater too ("I wouldn't use that site if I were you, the guy who runs it cheats webmasters, and if he cheats webmasters he is going to seriously rip off surfers"). Those friends are also going to tell their friends, and because the original information came from a "webmaster" it is going to be taken even more seriously (inside info).

You don't really think people like Greenguy and Tommy became big by pissing people off do you? They got where they are because people (both webmasters and surfers) trust and respect them.

And before someone posts something like "I make a couple of thousand dollars a week and I ban IPs", think how much you would be making if you were more "submitter friendly". Probably well over ten grand a week.

RE: "do you really think that you would have time to send them and email to let them know?" I was actually referring to the fact that you automatically send them to a "thank you" page rather than to a "Sorry your submission is refused, please re-read the rules" page. However since you bring up emails, you should not have to send them an email. Any halfway decent script will automatically send out the emails when it junks the submission.

RE: "Any honest webmaster who feels he is unfairly blacklisted will contact the LL owner to ask why" I am guessing that you do not have many friends who are serious LL or TGP submitters, or you would not be saying this. Get talking to a few of your submitters, ask them if this is so, you will soon find that you are very wrong.

well ha nice answers all, and yes i also block by ip , not all most i do by domain and email, but the very worse ones i block with all, and ofcourse i dont wanna tell someone that they are blacklisted, but i was realy surprise to see the result of responding webmasters who would ask "hey i am on the blacklist whats up"......i quess i am gonna do the same thing on some other linksites , lol i am just gonna bann all :D

I think you've lost your mind.

Yup, you've lost your mind.

hahahahaha i am choking, i agree.

RE: "I think you've lost your mind." That is a much held opinion of me. However I cannot see how the piece you quote adds fuel to the general suspicion of my sanity. Just because you do not talk to your non-webmaster friends about your business, it does not mean other webmasters also keep stumm about their business or hobby.

i am not blacklisting people who are by the rules, well some i do because i believe there is something strange with them but i cant find out what, and yep then people who are honest will contact the linksite owners or an board to ask why they got blacklisted, i think its an great way to find out who is honest and who is not (although that "honest" word also dont cound everytime when they post on an board:)

(I wish you'd learn to use the quote button ;) ) The only thing anyone wants to talk about with me is this damned business, but I never suggest anyone's sites and I don't recall anyone ever asking where they should surf.

I have retyped this post about three times, trying to make it look like a serious point and not just a cheap insult, but cannot find a good way to word it. So please, when you read it realise I genuinly mean it as a serious point, not just trying to score points.

stuveltje do you actually know how the Internet works ? You say "i am not blacklisting people who are by the rules", but in a previous post you said "i also block by ip". That is like saying "I never hit anyone who does not insult me, but if someone called Dave insults me then I hit everyone in the area called Dave"

ecchi

Instead of trying to change the way established sites do business why not try changing your approach and move on?

I know how to use it, but a long time ago I got fed up of people who use it to quote an entire post instead of just the point they are commenting on, and stopped reading anything it a quote box. In case anyone else is doing the same, I stopped using the quote button myself.

Also I think using the quote button rather than the old fashioned method look a bit nerdy (sort of "Look at me, I am using all the gadgets" kind of thing). But I guess I am just showing my age.

RE : "Instead of trying to change the way established sites do business why not try changing your approach and move on?" I am not trying to change anything. Anyone is free to do whatever they like. I am just stating the facts as I see them, so that as well as being free to ignore me, people are also free to read what I post, think about it, and if they decide that I am correct change their way and make more money. It is called "helping other people out".

Although I agree with you, it would be better for me if I kept quiet. The more webmasters who alienate their surfers there are, the more unhappy surfers there will be looking for somewhere else to go for porn. By the law of averages a few will end up on my sites. So yes, if I kept silent I would make more money. Unfortunately that was not the way I was brought up.

No I don't, but I am a serious LL submitter. In my 11 months in this business I've subbed over 200 freesites to at least 150 LLs. Twice I've received BL notices, twice I've approached the owner and twice I've received courteous replies explaining it was a mistake.

As fucked up as the system is (due in no small part to the cheaters) it works. Play straight and you'll be fine. Try funny stuff and pay the consequenses.

I think you seriously overestimate word of mouth on the net. By your reckoning I should soon be without both submitters and surfers, yet both are increasing.

I'm really not worried about my own reputation in the business, especially since, as I mentioned earlier, I've deleted all IP ban records and now ban by domain. That said, I'm getting more trigger happy on the ban button.

Lemmy, I am curious, if you disagree with me then why did you delete all IP ban records and now ban by domain ?

And RE "I think you seriously overestimate word of mouth on the net. By your reckoning I should soon be without both submitters and surfers, yet both are increasing." Umm, if you have stopped banning by IP and both your submitters and (more importantly) surfers are increasing, I think that kind of [b]PROVES[b] my point doesn't it?