Business Help
 

I am doing this 6 months now,
with a few minor interuptions along the way.
I have about 100 free sites and a few galeries out there in 3 niches.
I submit to approx 50 sites at any given time and 50% of them accept my submissions regularly and the other 50% off and on.
I keep tuning the submit list in order to maximize my acceptance rate.
I am getting plenty of clicks to the join pages but no sales. I work with a variety of sponsors.
My hub gets about 1000 uniques a day as well. What should I do to jump-start sales?
I thought by now that I would have made at least a few sales, but so far nothing. Any advice would be appreciated.

P.S. if you think this post should be in the newbie category feel free to move it.

6 months, 100 freesites, and no sales?????
To start with, post a couple of your freesites so we can see how your selling your sponsors.

Something is desparately wrong with your sites if you have less than a 90% acceptance rate. You are probably getting accepted by the smaller lists that don't have generous amounts of traffic to offer up. 100 free sites and never a sale? Could you clarify that? Or do you mean they aren't making sales anymore?

I would ask who your sponsors are, but I don't think I have enough info to put the blame on them.

Here are a few of the sites,
keep in mind I am getting click throughs on the banners.


http://www.thebesst.com/spr/fp/nz/nz01/01/
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/fp/nz/nz07/01/
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/fp/nz/nz14/01/
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/gr/nat/nat10/01/
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/gr/nat/nat12/01/
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/gr/nat/nat14/01/
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/tr/ls/trls02/01/
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/pb/milfr/milfr01/01/
http://best1.thebesst.com/tb/atm/atm04/06/

Any constructive critism is welcome, the reviwers at penisbot accepted all of the above sites.
Please lets us not get into a disscussion about taste (one mans meat is anothers poision).
If you can zero in on something that will help get me selling, then I would be very grateful and you would be a genius!
Thanks in advance.

ok, here is what I do and don't see on these freesites:
1. Nothing there to get the surfer excited or interested in the sponsor site.
Make them believe they NEED to see whats inside the paysite. Use bold text, colored text, descriptive phrases.
2. Use graphic, descriptive text above and below your banners. Many anti-virus and popup blocker programs have settings that block your banners from even showing.
3. Don't link whole paragraphs of text. It just gives the impression your trying to trick the surfer into clicking the link.
4. Better quality thumbnails/pics. I'm a pantyhose fan, but those thumbnails did not even interest me enough to click for the full size pic, let alone visit your sponsor. I'm not saying they need to be hi-res, just a bit better than they are.

These are just my thoughts, and I'm not claiming to be an expert by any stretch.

Thanks for the ideas and I mean that sincerely.

However, your constructive critism, notwithstanding, I still can't believe I have not made a single sale.

Like I said before I am getting clicks on the ads, this group of sites:

http://www.thebesst.com/spr/gr/nat/nat10/01/

has brought in more then 5000 hits to the tour.

I know that may not be alot to you old timers, but I figured I'd get at least one freakin' sale.....makes me scratch my head and wonder.

I would like to stay in this biz, it's just kinda hard when there is not even a tiny trickle of money.

the 1 site i chcked, i can see you getting a lot of clicks to the sponsor, but they were blind links basically it was real hard to find the enter link so people click and hit the back button, might be one of the problems. 5000 is a lot tho for no sales at all strange.

Little biased, but you might want to try adding some VOD sponsors.

Give the users some options. Maybe a plain text link with a free offer for 10 minutes.

yeah I argee
your getting clicks to the sponsor because the warning page is hard to navigate

and I beleive thats one of the biggest mistakes webmasters make

your sales pitches are maybe the worst i have ever seen
and you have nothing in the top ad spot

your just not gonna make sales with those sites

ya need to work on your text and your ads

I never liked trying to confuse the surfer on the warning page

I prefer to be straight up and honest
I try to make it obvious that I am straight up

then I make a strong PERSONAL recomation of my sponsor


nobodys gonna beleive a word you say if they think your trying to trick them

I will give you an example of a classic tommy site
http://tomsthumbs.com/cum/

notice its VERY straight up and foward
this site makes a few sales a month and is about 2 maybe 3 years old

so if you add that up over time , I have made around 3 to 4 thousand from that site and still counting

(oh if any of you ll owners are reading this and wanna list that site, I would consider it a favor)

I think Tommy's sample has something else really going for it.

It supports one sponsor strongly. Not too much to confuse people, plenty of reasons to keep clicking.

I took a peek at a couple of the sites and the advice given above is spot on |thumb

Not sure I'd ever seen one of Tommy's free sites, but now I see why Tommy is who he is...nicely done big guy :)

Hey TB,

Your sites seemed very passive. Just pictures and banners and really not much text.

Some free sites also seemed like they break standard LL rules, and 1000 / day to a hub with 100 free sites seems a bit low.

My guess is you'll make more sales if you sharpen up your free sites. Also, you might want to try more sponsors.

I've been doing free sites fulltime for about a month and only have 18 free sites out there. Got 6 sales so far.

I only looked at 2 of your sites (didn't bother with the rest) and you definately need to take the advice already mentioned. One thing I really noticed, you thumbs. It looks like you just used a program to generate them. They are terrible. You can see the "Summer logo" on your thumbs! Not good. I crop each of my thumbs individually in photoshop.

Advice to newbies: A crap site will make you next to nothing. Don't believe anyone who tells you once you get X amount of clicks you will make sales.........

Please post the urls to your sites.
I would love to see them, it would be a big boost to all newbie free site builders.

Also I thought I was not supposed to remove the trademake logos from the images??

well I don't really want to post the urls cause I don't want them copied. You don't really need to see them anyways to improve. If you want to see examples of good free sites visit some LL's and see what is getting other submitters listed. Just don't copy other people work!!!

As far as removing the trademark, I believe its ok if its for thumbs....you would not want to remove it from the large version of the picture that your thumb goes to....that would be a BIG NO NO.

Remember to try and use a lot of text SE's love text.

gotta go build now..

good luck

well - here's my take on it:
first - I doubt seriously that you have been listed at very many LLs - most WMs dont list fake whois domains. Second the site with the subdomain would be an instant ban at most LLs - so you might check that as well. I would also make sure that you are using a good email as the hotmail addy would also get you declined if you used it (I dont know as Ive never seen a submit here)

Definitely think about how you push a site - think about the Sunday newspapers and how the car dealers push specific cars or even go to mens magazine and see how they talk up a certain thing they are selling in the back.

Looking at the entrance page for one of your free sites I could barely find the Enter link - again a reason most LLs wouldnt accept it (its the smallest link on the page)

If you have really made 100 free sites since youve owned this domain then you definitely have the mindset to do this well - 100 sites in less than 5 months is great - just have to learn the selling points :) and there are loads of threads in the newbie section that go into detail on this - or just look at some LLs around here to see what does get accepted and how they sell. Or just look at Tommys free site he posted and take good lessons from that one

As far as taking logos off the thumbs I do believe that would NOT be a problem as long as you leave them on the full size pics -but definitely need something to make thumbs better

Thanks for the take.
What do you mean by fake whois domains?

Thanks
 

Well thanks again for all the ideas.

I really did not think my enter link was so hard to find.
O.K. Maybe on this example
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/gr/nat/nat10/01/
the enter link is a bit tricky, I acknowledge that as fair criticism.

If you look at the other sites I've listed, you will find the enter link quite simply

This one has an extra large enter link:
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/fp/nz/nz07/01/

This one the enter link is fully one quarter the size of the table it’s in:
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/fp/nz/nz14/01/

Here is one with a big clean enter link and plenty of text extolling the great benefits of joining:
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/sc/php/php05/01/

Here is on with a very clean enter link and lots of bold text under the banner:
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/fp/nz/nz05/07/

Here is one with a positively huge enter link on the warning page:
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/fp/nz/nz04/07/

Here is one with clean enter link and lots of text
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/fp/nz/nz08/07/

Another clean enter lots of text
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/sc/php/php01/01/

Last one two enter links one above the other and text links
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/sc/php/php04/01/

The idea behind this is not to refute your critisms, some of which are valid and I will work hard to sharpen the web sites if you all think that is part of the problem. I will refine my thumbs, use more text and take the Sunday paper approach to selling. The reason for all the examples is to show you that I have constantly changed things around looking for a site that sells.
Again all of these sites can't be sooo bad that they never get a sale and every click is a blind one.
Keep in mind again; I keep getting accepted at different link lists I am now approaching 2000 acceptances. (yes Linkster it’s true)
It' not like I don't surf around and see what others are doing. I am certainly not the only free site builder to use a format similar to this.
Naturally I have seen a lot better and naturally I have seen a lot worse.

Of course I am open to other suggestions you may have and needless to say I don’t expect the board to solve my problems. The reason for my asking is to make sure that I am on the right track. As well I’ll state it again that I don’t believe this is entirely a case of crappy web sites.




Here are some specific examples

September 8, 2005 to October 10, 2005
These sites sent 1120 hits to the tour in 33 days
0 sales?

http://www.thebesst.com/spr/sc/php/php01/01/
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/sc/php/php02/01/
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/sc/php/php03/01/
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/sc/php/php04/01/
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/sc/php/php05/01/
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/sc/php/php06/01/
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/sc/php/php07/01/

------------------------------------------------------------------

June 28, 2005 to October 10, 2005
These sites sent 4996 hits to the tour in 105 days
0 sales?

http://www.thebesst.com/spr/gr/nat/nat01/01/
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/gr/nat/nat02/01/
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/gr/nat/nat03/01/
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/gr/nat/nat04/01/
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/gr/nat/nat05/01/
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/gr/nat/nat06/01/
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/gr/nat/nat07/01/
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/gr/nat/nat08/01/
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/gr/nat/nat09/01/
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/gr/nat/nat10/01/
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/gr/nat/nat11/01/
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/gr/nat/nat12/01/
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/gr/nat/nat13/01/
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/gr/nat/nat14/01/
http://www.thebesst.com/spr/gr/nat/nat15/01/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just don’t see that the problem is all in a “bad website”
If you check the links you will find they are very clean and not meant to deviously mislead the surfer


Thanks again for all of your time.

With out rancour or prejudice:
It's a shame you won't share at least one.
I find it hard to believe that you have made 6 sales in your first month from a standing start. My humble opinion of course.
You are the second person on the board that I have had a conversation with that has made claims of magical sales and to date neither of you will show any of the input.
Tommy seems to be the only one to put his money where his mouth is.
Hats off to you Tommy!!

Again no harm intended, just stating my opinion.

Lets look - you started out with this as your addy:
K Smith ()
+1.5148600250
Fax: +1.5148600250
4894 Sources
43509
D.D.O., QC H8Y 3P4
CA
Which puts you in Canada ???

Then you changed it in July to:
K Smith ()
+1.5148600250
Fax: +1.5148600250
123 4th street
Punta Cana, CA 90210
US
Which puts you in Beverly Hills??? of course that street doesnt really exist there - so yeah - its fake LOL

I moved and then decided I wanted a little privacy, anything wrong with that.
Anyone that wants to contact me through the spam-ola domain name registration system can use the valid e-mail address provided I will respond to it. Fake or private?
I'll let you think what you want.

Actually - yes there is something wrong with that - most LL owners will not list your sites when you have a fake/private whois - simple fact - no problem - just part of the game :)

Lucky for me this has not been a problem.
A LL owner looking at domain name registration is really wasting his or her time. Without a a reference point a LL owner has no idea if the address is valid or not.

As well the qualitiy of the registered address does nothing to speak of the quality of the person submiting the site.

I think most LL owners would be more concerened about a valid return e-mail addresses of the submitter and making sure sites do not re-direct or change after they are submitted. I have never, and I never will change or re-direct a site. I hate it as a sufer and I won't tolerate it as an adult web master.

The LL owners that accept my submissions know they are clean and know that they will stay that way.

The attitude that goes with this has squat to do with an address.

No harm intended just my opinion of course.

You're complaining that you barely get listed. Are you so sure that it isn't affecting you?

Nope, getting listed is not problem. I get listed plenty. I follow all the rules and do my best to make sure the sites are up and running 24x7.

The complaint is "I'm not making any sales."

Maybe I am lucky I don't know? Maybe my traffic is better? I didn't just start my business with "a standing start" either. I researced this business for a long time.
I bet there are webmasters out there who have made a hell of lot more than 6 sales in under 5 weeks times.
Magical sales? 6 sales is far from "magical in opinion." I try to build 6-7 days a week. It's work. Nothing magical about that.

That would be why my submit domain is pubilc :)

No offense intended here TB, but you came here asking for assistance. You're getting help from some of the best in the free site/link list game. And frankly, you're pretty much arguing some of their very valid points.

I DO check whois on submissions...and I DO decline based on false whois info. You have to realize how many cheaters and scammers there are in this biz. We don't know you...nor do we know you're not one of the cheats. Believe us, UW and I are not the only ones that check whois info. Many of the large link sites do. This topic has come up over and over on this board. Do yourself a favor...search for whois on this board. Perhaps, that will convince you that no one here is just yankin your chain for fun.

Fake whois info is an instant decline. In many cases, some link sites will actually blacklist for fake whois info.

As to your sales...frankly, your numbers are too low to really know for sure yet. Hell, I'm off to a 1:8000 start to the week right now. Not normal for me, but it happens. Hopefully, within a couple days it will pick up again...and normalize those numbers.

To some extent, traffic is as important as tweaking your sales approach. You want to get listed everywhere you submit...or damn close to it! I'm happy to say my sites are accepted at every one of the sites I submit too. Yes, 100% acceptance...and yes, it took me a long time to get to that level.

I know you're frustrated that you haven't made any sales yet. This biz is not an easy...those days are long gone. But, if you start accepting the good advice you're getting and adapting...perhaps...just maybe your traffic flows will increase. Perhaps, you'll start sending 5k clicks a week to sponsors...or 5k a day...at that point, you'll be able to much better tweak your sales approach.

Right now, you need to get listed and get traffic. Please, try to accept the solid advice you're getting here instead of justifying your current methods which obviously aren't working for you.

But, that's just my humble opinion of course :D

We blacklist for fake or private whois. I had to fix mine up as a free site submitter so our submitters can do the same. It basically a case, as has been said tons of time here before, that we do everything we can to cut down on the cheating and the bullshit we get in our database every day.
Most of us check whois AND reverse ip to see what other sites are listed on the ip. I had someone wanting to know why he was blacklisted the other day.. there are tons of r4pe sites on his ip.

Well, from what I have read on this board and others, getting 6 sales your first month from a zero traffic start is more then magical. It is in-freakin'-credible, no matter how much research you did. So you will have to pardon me for taking what you say with a grain of salt.

I have been building sites at probably the same rate as you and I am not afraid to share my sites or some of my stats. I have not gotten a single sale, not one, not zip, nothing, nada, rien.
I have sent plenty of traffic to my sponsors, completly defying the declared bullshit ratio of 1:350 and I am still waiting.

And that is what this post is all about. It is not a personal attack on anyone.
(The board has actually been super nice, giving me lots of free help and advice. Thanks GG&J board!)

It is a simple question:
"where the hell are all these promised sales?"
The sponsors bandy around figures like the money was gonna rain from the sky, so how 'bout a little drizzle??

With all due respect MrYum,
You have a reference point on me.
So you believe the address is fake.
No reference point, no discussion.
Checking the whois to find that the cheater listed a "real" fake address puts you in the same jeopardy.
And lets face it are your really gonna travel to Mother Russia to see if the address is really "real" ??

This discussion over fake and real whois addresses is moot and honestly a waste of time because it is too easily by-passed.

As well I am not in-validating the good advice given, please re-read my prior posts.
All of the helpful pointers were duly noted and shall be incorporated.

What do you find so hard to believe about 6 sales in the first month? If you submit good sites to good lists, 6 sales your first month is not a huge task. He wasn't tooting his horn, he's giving you a comparison.

Simply stated, you suck. You really, really suck. Deal with it. You're always going to suck because you'd rather argue about the reasons why you suck rather than taking everyone's advice as friendly critcism and learning from it.

And as far as that free site Tommy showed you - don't follow that example! I'd never list that damned thing. Those banners with the fake thumbs would get you rejected every time and eventually blacklisted.

Okay...fair enough TB. You can continue to ignore all the folks telling the whois issue is real...and keep waiting for those sales you were 'promised' to start raining from the sky.

Oh, and trust me...I always read an entire thread before responding. But, you just seemed to be either missing or choosing to ignore a very important piece of advice. Which from your response to me, it appears you will continue to do so...as you have decided it's moot and a waste of time.

Given that fact, this thread has become of waste of my valuable time. Best of luck to you mate...you're going to need it.

tb,
I'll toss in my 2 peso's. You have gotten some very good advice already. Go back and re-read it without having a defensive attitude.
I took a look at a few of your sites. Get rid of any graphic that is not going to make you a sale. They take time to load and are distracting. Your customers will walk right on by them.
The very top of your index page has the capability of making most of your sales. You need your best ad in that spot. Grab the surfer by the short and curlys. An example. Say you have an Asian site. Your sponsor has a banner that has an air of mystery to it ( you don't nec. need a banner here, just the eye and mind grabbing text). Some simple text that is easy to read. "Banned in all of Asia" will grab their attention. Then proceed to tell them why it was banned and why they should be watching the movies on that site.
And your enter links are misleading. Most people do not know the name of the site they clicked on. "Enter Horny Black Women" will confuse them everytime. A simple, easy to find "Enter" is all that is needed. :)

Time to start reading the post Useless.

All the good advice has been noted.

I'm a firm believer in put your money where your mouth is.
If he truly is giving me a comparison then lets see it!
A comparison without an example is like tits on a bull, useless! (pardon the pun)
Stand up and say your a genius, then better be perpared to prove it.

Sure the ratio is 1:350 but only after a million unigue hits. Time to tell the truth!

You guys brought up the bullshit address thing to argue about.
It's pure crap, check the damn address all you want. Any idiot can fly a real fake address by you anytime. YOU NEED A REFERENCE POINT, all aboard, next stop the Czeck Republic.

And what's with the personal attack, what did I ever do to you?

Nice piece of advice Major, thanks!

I am not getting defensive, people told me my enter link was too small so I showed them 10 sites were my enter link was huge.
You people are getting all defensive.
Again all good pointers are noted and I will use them.

Just in case anyone joins this thread in the middle the above quote is how it started.

I just want to single out what I think is the most salient point:
"I am getting plenty of clicks to the join pages but no sales. I work with a variety of sponsors"

So it really isn't about my enter links or my thumbs or my graphics or my text, cuz people are checking out the sites and clicking on the ads.

What I really want to know is how I could log in 5000 odd clicks to one sponsor and not make a single sale??

And why do sponsors keep talking about this nonsense 1:350 conversion ratio,
which is obviously crap?

The sponsors and the LL owneres want you to play by a very strict set of rules, I don't see adherence on the other side of the game.

Anyway if you just joined the fray, this is how it started.

you just don't want to listen, i am sorry for you, there are plenty of great people here trying to help you and you are getting all defensive. go back and read the top shit and learn, yea you are getting a lot of clicks to sponsors i can to lol but you have 3 fucking banners of the same shit on the top of the next site i checked, it doesn't work it only makes the surfer worried you are hustling them, 6 sales is nothing lol why are you so sceptical, if you followed the advice of tommy who is in the biz since the beginning and with you obvious work ethic (much better than mine lol) you would have 6 sales a day and be ready to retire but instead u want to argue with the people helping you??? WTF one of my first sites i made was crap and i forgot the links til 4th page lol but got 2 sales on it the 1st week, because i knew what i was selling and how to get my surfer off (UW can comment on that lol :D) and i bet i made at least 6 on the month when i fixed it lol. listen and learn like any business and open up your who is cuz the feds know anyway and the rest dont give a fuck :D i am only here cuz some one got on me for trying to spam domains at ANS and i listened and learened and then made $$$$$$$$$ it works the only biz where people teach you to make money for free, don't blow your rep, and piss people off it's not worth it :)

heheh here's one of mine lol don't do freesites much anymore but so you don't think i am hiding :D http://www.x-pix.us/freesites/asian-creampie/ it made some $$$

Sorry to intrude.....
If we assume that the figures quoted are reasonably accurate, then what could be the reason for the lack of any sales?
Are tb's sites simply not putting the surfer in the right frame of mind for a sale?
Or are we assuming that the sponsors are somehow up to something?
Or are tb's figures wrong?

I agree that the sites tb posted need some tweaking, but I'm unsure as to why with that many folks going to the right places from tb's sites there would be no sales at all.
I'm confused!
|dizzy|