Blacklisting
 

OK I was asked to start a new thread because this blacklisting stuff didn't belong in another tread about rage.
Let's talk about blacklisting and bring it out in the open.
Why do people get blacklisted?
How do you end a blacklist?
Shouldn't there be some kind of control to see if the blacklist is deserved?
Shouldn't someone blacklisting somebody have to explain why?
Bringing blacklisting out in the open can only help the adult biz.
|huh

I think maybe you should try to explain your ideas first.

Let me add this to each of your questions:

1 - why should anyone else tell me how to run my business?
2 - why should anyone else tell me how to run my business?
3 - why would I want to teach cheaters to cheat better so I can't catch them?

Start with that. You have much work to do.

Alex

hmmm
 

I guess you're missing the point of all this. A sleasy CFNM competitor blacklisted my site for bogus reasons and I want to break the blacklist. I was blacklisted even before I started submitting.
I don't need any help on how to run my site ,thank you, I'm just looking for the truth about my site being blacklisted.
hoes.com knows why I'm blacklisted. He saw my site on the blacklist and didn't accept my gallery. Where is that guy? All I want is an honest answer and I will go back to being a lucker.|potleaf|

Why can't you do what most honest webmasters would do and move on. Buy another domain and keep it off the blacklists.

now that's funny
 

Buy another domain. I only have the one niche site and it's something I'm into so why would I want to start another site?
Well it looks like I'm not going to get the truth here. I guess you guys don't want to know the truth anyway so you go after the messenger.

With your attitude I can see why you are whining. Good Luck :D

hmmm my attitude
 

Did I mention that on March 9th of this year one of my competition hacked into my FTP using a rootkit and deleted over 170 G's of movies.
Yeah I've got an attitude. My competition is trying like hell to destroy my site.
The harder they attack me the more stubborn I get. My site is doing good enough but breaking this phony blacklist would make it even better.
I started this tread to talk about blacklisting as it effects the adult business so let's talk about blacklisting shall we? Just because you never heard about one site attacking another like mine is being attacked doesn't mean it isn't happening. People come up with new ideas all the time you never heard of. My host never heard of this happening either.|potleaf|

I've probably forgotten more than you will ever learn about this biz which has nothing to do with the the topic of this thread...

I haven't removed anyone from my blacklists in many years. I do NOT plan to either.

Have a nice life :)

How are you so sure it was your competition that "hacked" your site? If you had proof you'd be speaking with the appropriate law enforcement agencies rather than making unsupported accusations here.

As for this same competitor being responsible for getting you banned at multiple TGPs, I also find that difficult to swallow.

You make lots of noise, but have provided next to nothing to support your accusations. Time to put up or shut up.

Subject: Re: my other site
From: "george mitra"
Date: Mon, May 8, 2006 10:12 am
To: webmaster@cfnmzone.com
Priority: Normal
Options: View Full Header | View Printable Version




Sir, what email address will i use when i submit the tgps?
I saw that your banned from some tgp sites, i tried to submit to the hun but
the CFNMZONE site can't get in,
I'm currently searching for Top tgp sites that your site is not banned or
blacklisted...

Here is the tgp template I designed

http://www.cfnmzone.com/hot/pics/arielsdickshow/


On 5/7/06, webmaster@cfnmzone.com wrote:
>
> OK sounds good.
>
> > $50
> >
> > On 5/7/06, webmaster@cfnmzone.com wrote:
> >>
> >> How much would a redesign of the Home page cost?
> >>
> >> http://www.mrbigspicks.com
> >>
> >
>
>

You know why they get to keep attacking me? Because they know no one will beleive me




My letter to the ISP with my real email taken out for privacy. I can see I'm not going to get any help from anybody here.



Hello,

Road Runner has received your e-mail, but is currently unable to process
it further as it is missing some required information. Road Runner will
not accept logs that are not in plain text (ascii) format. Do not attach
files to your e-mail. All logs must be included in the body of the
message.

Your logs must contain the following information in order for Road
Runner to process them:

Date of Incident
Time of Incident
Time Zone that logs are captured in
Source IP Address or Host Name

Please note, we are not able to take action on an account without being
able to substantiate "abuse" allegations with documentation of one or
more violations of our Acceptable Use Policy (AUP). While a description
of the events is useful in determining the intent of the potential
abuser, it does not substitute for actual system logs which can provide
a reliable record of on-line activity.


Thank you for taking the time to contact Road Runner.

- Road Runner Abuse [DH]

Original Message Follows:
------------------------
Thank you for the reply. I knew that RR would not give me any info about
the attackers. I would like RR to look into a TOS service violation.
Meaning that there is proof that one of your customers used a root-kit
to break into my web site and delete every movie I had.

The logs showing all the damage they did would be too big to put in an
email. It would be many pages long after all they spent hours deleting
movie after movie.
If nothing is done what's to stop them from attacking me or another site
in the future. Please show shady web site operators that if they do
something like this they better be prepared to deal with the
consequences of their actions.



http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?ip=24.24.138.26


http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?ip=!ZS30-ARIN&server=whois.arin.n
et&type=P

More info including the logs are available if you need them but please
don't let some shady characters get away with trying to ruin people's
lively hood because they are afraid of the competition.
I am still going forward thru the proper channels.
They actually deleted work that a web designer had done on a Sports
Handicapping site that I was starting with my brother too. Those
ruining things for both or families and people that work on the sites
with us. This sports site wasn't even live yet and now it looks like we
will miss March Madness and any chance to re coop the money we spent on
this site until next Football season. Not many people buy picks for
Baseball.

Thanks,

Hi windcruzer,

Nice to see you here :)

Coupla things:

1. I know you have been fucked over a lot by various people, and feel your pain, but you have to take this into consideration: Almost everyone on this board is as honest and willing to help out people as they come. The few cheats and assholes don't last long, and are an exceptionally small fraction of this board. These people will help you, trust me on that, but you need to take a deep breath and not be so confrontational. These are the good guys |thumb

2. If you've been blacklisted by any of the Link List owners here (big difference in a Link List and a TGP) it will be because you have not followed the rules, for example submitting galleries instead of freesites. Not sure what a freesite is? Take a look at hoes.com and see what gets listed - 4 pages minimum, which consist of:

warning page leading to
main page leading to
galleries 1 & 2

3. I'm not bashing you, like I say I know you had a rough start in the biz getting fucked over, so while I appreciate you being on the defensive, there really is no need to be so here. Be polite, concise, and level-headed and you'll get faster and better results.

Good luck finding out your problems, working to fix them, and getting listed :)

btw, I wish you'd hurry up and raise that membership fee ;)

Chill buckaroo, nobody here is trying to give you a hard time nor is it likely they banned you. It will be a lot easier to engage a robust dialogue if you ASK for help and maybe even say PLEASE.. since most people believe that being on a banned list is for a good reason but recognize that mistakes do happen. You might be able to get the confusion undone if your NICE. Take JELS's comments seriously too.
Obviously HOES didn't blacklist you but if you want to pursue what they knew and when they knew it try using their dedicated thread:

http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/...ead.php?t=7145

Good Luck

I´m afraid it´s wasted time to search for reasons why you got blacklisted. Maybe there are reasons, so you should know them. Maybe there aren´t, so you´ll never find out.

When I changed from shared hosting to a dedicated server last year I got a new IP block for my sites. One of the IP´s is blacklisted at an adult search engine. I talked to the guy who runs it, but even he himself couldn´t find out why. So I have to live with this or can spend my life trying to figure out why, what I sure won´t do.

Another btw,

You brought up (in Hoes thread) that cfnmlist wouldn't list you - http://whois.domaintools.com/cfnmlist.com will explain why.

I didn´t get it...|huh

I really lost the angle on all of this.

windcruzer, why were you contacting Road Runner? Do you host your porn sites on your cable modem or something? Am I missing something in all of this? I am seriously confused about this, why are you getting road runner involved?

Can you please maybe step back and start at the beginning, and assume that none of us "know the story already"? I can't figure out what you think you are blacklisted from, I can't see who is doing what, and I can't figure out why you have a mainstream ISP involved.

Please. Slowly... short sentences... simple words... don't leave anything out.

Alex

Seems best course is to try contacting who banned you in the first place. Any one else will likely not have a clue, as they did not ban you, hence your wasting your time. Just a thought.

ronnie

This is different from the blacklisting from what I am getting, he had his site hacked by the same person he thinks had him put on a blacklist and he has server logs showing the damage came from this RR ip address, if I am getting it right :)

That's pretty much my take on it as well, sorting through the mish mash of available info. His host would need to turn that info over to authorities who could THEN get the information from RoadRunner. RR is not going to give it to anyone else.

As for the blacklisting, like Alex, I still haven't been able to sort that out.

Im my opinon you would be better off moving on. Just start over unless you have some $$ around in order to fight this. Problem here is the ISP is not going to give you anything, you have to contact the authorities where the crime look place and press charges. At which time you need to show your proof. After that, the authorites will most likly mess things up. You need to supena the ISP to provide the info. It's a privacy issue. And the supena has to be very very detailed as to what info you want, what time you want it from and who is to give it to you. You just cant send them a supena saying you want all recorded dates blah blah. You can't blanket it. The supena has to be addressed to the person who will be getting you those records. You just cant address it to "owner of company X" you have to know who the COR is and thats who gets it. Then after all this is complete, you need to show damages to you. Which is a whole other mess. Unless you are running this like a tight business you are going to lose so much durring this process. IN the end you may feel happy you done something, but what will you really have? A shit load of work for most likly a slap on someones wrist.
If you really are black listed then I don't know what to tell you. I like to think that no one is ever 100% not guilty when it comes to stuff like this. You always hear how someone was hacked or my budy did this. Or I did not know you meant I could not submit this or that. There is always some excuse. But somewhere down the line you pissed off someone, you can call it your competition or whomever but something happened at sometime that started all this. I can't help but think it was two people playing around, calling each other names and one got pissed off more then the other and things got way out of hand.

windcruzer

I think like many webmasters your making to much out of any black list

lets say your premoting and doing well with a sponsor that a tgp owner uses

lets say that sponsor is the tgp owners main bread and butter

he doesn't want you competing for sales with his traffic on this sponsor

so he drops your email address on his so called black list

its really just a list of domains and/or emails that cant get listed at 1 tgp

calling it a black list is really a stretch but everybody in this industry loves drama so... its a black list

its his site, his traffic. In business some doors get closed in your face . That's life

well said tommy. :)

Interesting thread. I have to agree with the advice to move on, get another domain to list your free sites & TGPs on. It'll set you back $8 & you can optimize 2 sites for the search engines. The time you're spending trying to argue the blacklist is time that you could've spent building new sites, right?

Even if it seems unfair, it may not be worth the time to fight it. I used to have a dedicated server at EV1 because it was so cheap. Lots of TGPs I submitted to wouldn't accept my galleries because there were known cheaters using that host. Not my domain, not my IP, not even my niche, but it wasn't worth arguing. I switched hosts & got on with it.

Tommy summed it up well. I think the term "black list" leads to the idea that if one site bans you, for whatever reason, that the information is then passed on to a "master list" that all top TGP and link list owners subscribe to and enforce. As far as I can tell, that is not the case. If someone bans you, you just move on and submit to other sites.

Now, if you are a cheater or troublemaker who pulls snakey shit at several different sites, well, yeah, then someone's likely to bring it up on webmater boards and that person can get a bad rap and find himself on a shit list in places he hasn't even submitted to yet. But you really have to work hard at making yourself unwanted, and frankly it's a lot better to work to make sure you're welcomed rather than banned.

I think though if I understand he is building sites for a micro niche (CFNM) and there are only a very few real on point traffic sources, and he is "blacklisted" from them.

I will admit that I don't entirely follow the thread because there seems to be just way too much to this... if your server gets hacked, you fix the trouble, apologize profusely to whoever might have put you on thier shitlist, and hope to get back into their good graces. If that doesn't happen, move on to other link sites / TGPs and/or change the focus of your site niche, whatever is required.

Beyond that the rest is all bullshit that keeps you from making money.

Alex

Only because I know the guy will I say this:

He owns the paysite cfnmzone.com and is not primarily a freesite/gallery builder. He has (from what I can see) hired a guy to make/submit galleries for him, and found out cfnmzone.com is BL'd from the hun, for reasons unknown. Obviously only the hun can answer that one, so windcruzer you need to check out his board - although I'd definitely be less confrontational if you want to get that resolved.

As far as I can guess, the BL'ing at hoes is probably for submitting galleries and not freesites there, in which case you need to take a look at what a freesite is.

As for the other stuff - hacking and so forth, that's an entirely different issue, nothing to do with blacklists, and you need to keep that out of any discussion about blacklisting, or you will do what you have done here - confuse people.

Thanks everyone it's nice to see all this great info. RawAlex seems to have a grip on what's happening to my site.
I understand buying another domain now and want to thank everyone here for suggesting it.
Jel everybody says raise the rate but I would hate to loose all my regulars because I do have a good rebill rate. Without being properly promoted it's those rebills they make me the most money each month.|potleaf|

windcruzer - you only need buy another domain to make the freesites/galleries on, although if you are blacklisted for subbing galleries to a freesite LL, or not following any other rules you'll probably find that your email address will appear on the blacklist too.

You need to find out for sure where you are blacklisted and why, and be sure to make the changes required to get you off them. A lot of people will give a second chance for genuine mistakes, hell we all made them when we first started out, I know I did, but make an effort to keep to the specific rules for the specific traffic sources you are targetting. Sounds as if you are in the right direction with the guy you have hired.

Just a comment on your site, if you don´t mind me bringing it up here. I´m on 1024x768 and have to scroll the site. Maybe it´s a good idea to change that.

Are we 100% sure that he's blacklisted at hoes? It could be that he's just not getting listed because he's submitting galleries (I know I don't always blacklist because someone submits a gallery - sometimes I just delete the submit & move on)

Very true GG, I shoulda really said 'if you are BL'd at hoes it's probably because....' either way, I hate to guess/speak for others so in all fairness to windcruzer I suppose the best I can say is: Wait until someone from Hoes sees your post(s) - it can be a few days between the guys from there popping in - and see what they say |thumb

dvd sales
 

It's a shame TGP/LL site owners don't realize how popular my site is with the buying public.

http://www.videos4sale.com/do/list

Take a look at the top selling stores on the left.

Me too.

Site design aside, it looks like you've got some great content. You might want to check with Paycom about how raising the rate works (if you do want to go that route). With CCBill, I can raise the price of new memberships, but any of my current members are locked in at the rate they originally agreed to. That doesn't change & could theoretically help retention if your members know that if they cancel now, they'll have to sign up at a higher rate later on.

Unless you have recip links to the TGP/LL on your main site, it's popularity has virtually no relevance to any galleries or free sites you submit.

Recip link
 

I always put the recep link to any site on the Home Page when I submit but take it off when I don't get listed.
Thanks for the info about contacting Paycom I will do that tomorrow. I'm thinking of adding CCbill as a 2nd billing company. Anybody have thoughts on having both Paycom and CCbill?
Lucky me, I had Ibill and Paycom didn't want the $750 for Visa again.

A new tack
 

TGP/LL owners who can see the value of my CFNM content and can appreicate listing a site that has the best rebill rate in the CFNM genre please send an email to:
webmaster@cfnmzone.com


http://www.sensations4women.com/vsBo...?board=stories
CFNMZONE DVD's at bottom of page. These forum came up with the term CFNM.

If the same person blacklisting me is the same one hacking my site then these two ideas do tie together I'm sad to say. Why this person just doesn't improve their own CFNM site blows my mind?

Thanks,
windcruzer

Hmmm that could be good to premote that angle in the paysite

telling the surfers how lucky they are

I can really feel your frustration. Unfortunately, jealousy and hacking slash business interference can sometimes go hand in hand. I can see by your resolve that you are taking it as a challange and will be stronger for it. I'd list your stuff anytime.

Good luck!

Yep
 

Boy was I naive when I decided to start an adult site but then you won't meet to many people more stuboorn than me either. I was a photographer who was into CFNM and thought he could do it better.
I did finally get listed on cfnmlist but they won't take my galleries just my site name but that's better than nothing.
Thanks to DJilla and everybody else who decided to list content. The new web guy just finished a 4 page movie page.|loony|