ATTN: Webmasters submitting to the hoes.com gay category
 

I've recently noticed there's some confusion on the part of several webmasters submitting their freesites to the subcategories of the gay section at hoes.com. What I'm finding is that they're either not submitting the site to the correct subcategory or they're using the incorrect recip.

For instance, if the content you are promoting focuses on a situation involving twinks, please use the twink recip we provide and submit the site to our twink category. Too often I see sites being submitted to our twink category, but the site is using the 'gay fucking' recip or 'free gay movies' recip. I reviewed a site today submitted to the gay/big dick category and the content was promoting the niche, but the webmaster chose to use the 'twink' recip. I had no choice, but to decline the site.

Ultimately, your sites will be accepted if the recip matches the category that the site was submitted to as long as both match the content being promoted.

Chuck

Hoes declines sites if they have the incorrect category link/text in the recip?

There are a couple of places that do that. I don't sub to hoes anymore, but there are recip nazis in several places.

It doesn't make sense, knowing what we now know about the devaluing of reciprocal linking and repitition of anchor text, but it's very common to see people using search engine theories and language that are years out of date.

What a strange coincidence.

What's so strange about this? We don't want our surfers to follow your link assuming it's one thing and show them something else. So subcategory selection is very important to us. Obviously the recip needs to match the category. Let's keep things targetted. Some webmasters just don't want to take the extra few seconds to grab a different recip. Instead they use the same one over and over.

marc

I just declined two sites this morning for this. I guess I'm a "recip nazis". |crazy|

It's your site & you make the rules, but that explanation falls flat when you throw in there that, based on the example above, the person was clicking on a link that said "twinks" which I assume went to the twinks page.

I can sorta see your point, but I don't think I'd decline a site because the recip they had up there was off by a sub-niche (meaning that a gay recip on a big tit site would catch my eye & probably be declined, but not a gay sub-niche on another gay sub-niche site)

Hoes is excellent traffic and marc's a good guy. I'm the first person who replied to his initial post on greenies old board, annoucing the startup of hoes. I've always admired his project.

But, I don't approve of his policy on "Click Here" - and I can afford to do without his traffic, so I stopped subbing when he started that policy. It's nice being successful enough that you can say "I don't agree with your policy, so I won't sub to you because of it.". I recognize most people can't afford to do that.

That's the only reason I don't sub there anymore.

But, for search engine purposes, it doesn't make sense to only accept a site because the links point to another page on the site, especially if it is a related page. And it really doesn't make sense to demand one specific anchor text if the webmaster is willing to write unique anchor text.

Knowing what we now now about how google treats too-similar anchor text and recip links, the link list owners should be ebncouraging people to write their own anchor text, and should be happier to get a link to a non reciprocal page than to a reciprocal page.

If the sites were otherwise okay, and you had no reason to suspect they were from risky webmasters, it's crazy for a little linklist owner like you to decline for that reason.

There could be other extenuating factors. You might have had good reason to reject those sites otherwise.

But recip links are weaker now.

Look at how greeny does his gay recip linking - he gets at least double the sales exposure from one link, and avoids the page to page recip weakness.

While I don't claim to be a search engine expert, I do know that lazy webmasters make me scratch my head and go "huh?". For example (what I was talking about in my earlier post) was a toon site that a webmaster submitted to me but used the recip for the movie category. |huh

Little? Who you callin' little? |catfight|

LOL

Was it a lousy site otherwise? Would you have been happy to have it, except for the recip? Werte you suspicious of the submitter, or was it a new submitter?

Do you figure there's no chance a toon surfer would be interested in movies?

The search engine effect of that link is VERY VERY weak.

Having a good submitter who trusts you and keeps sending you content and links is much more valuable to you than the effects of one or even 50 wrong links.

My writing error was bugging me, this should read:

"But, for search engine purposes, it doesn't make sense to _not_ accept a site _only_ because the links point to another page on the site, especially if it is a related page."

Some would say its so weak as to be not worth the typing of the HTML! :)

Some would say that it does so much damage to the index page of the free site that is far more a negative than any sort of positive! :)

DD

Some would say a lot of things where search engines are concerned. I'm going to gracefully bow out of this discussion now and leave it to those with the "big link list's". :)

I would have to agree totally with this - and after running tests for a year I would say that having category recips actually hurts in the long run - Ive tried both and Ive made up my mind
Thats why I am reverting to regular recips again - and forever this time!!

Sorry that some of you think this policy is "tough". I'm very anal and like to keep my ducks in a row. Maintaining highly targetted inbound links is one of my goals for my reviewers. TRUST ME, it helps submitters in the long run. You WANT a surfer eventually clicking on your free site in my "twinks" category that has just clicked on a "twinks" link on a recip. It's good, clean target marketing.

I agree that some of the gay subcats are cross-overs meaning they appeal to the same people, but I prefer to maintain my rule.

marc

\

Thanks for the nice comment.

Care to post a link or two so I can see what we're missing? Maybe it's "close enough"

:-)

marc

I'm not trying to be an ass, but I think your missing my point - your reasoning falls short because, based on the example posted, the surfer would have clicked on a link that said "twinks" that went to a page of twink sites.

It's your site & you can do what you want, I'm just trying to understand the thought process behind it.

Well, naturally I don't want to post my best niches, but here's a recent site in a niche that's pretty mediocre for me.

http://www.sexy-latina-girls.net/cummy-chica/

As you can see, I'm using 'click here' as agressively as I feel I reasonably can. So, I kinda hope it's not close enough. ;-}

In a lot of site designs I use it, and other gimmicks, even more agressively. I'm sure your reviewers were skipping my sites for too-agressive ads before you started the 'click here' policy.

Everybody here agrees with the basic principle of "your site, your rules". If I want to get listed with you, I should build a second version of each site that is adjusted to your rules and reviewers.

Doing that is one of those things I always think I should get around to doing, but I just haven't worked it into my daily schedule.

Thanks for your kind understanding. Yes, my reviewers know not to accept free sites like this. The reason why I started this rule was because I was getting lots of comments from surfers about getting hit with popups, not getting free content from free sites, etc... It was because they couldn't find the ENTER link beneath the "click heres". Or they never made it that far down the page.

Thanks again for understanding.

marc

What "Click Here" policy? |huh All I see is no "Enter Here" on the index page, which is typical of most link list rules.

Licker4U, I don't know if it's listed in his rules.

But a bit more than a year ago marc came here and made a big post about 'click here' in sales text, and how hoes wasn't going to be accepting it any more.

I adjusted some test sites to remove 'click here' from the entry page, but reviewers rejected sites with 'click here' anywhere in the site.

It doesn't make sense to put hoes recips on a site, and lose the sales power of 'click here', when nobody else was using that rule.

Hoes already had the reputation of being the strictest LL. Some others have become more strict in the past few years, so it may make a lot more sense now to build a specialized site for the strictest linklists.

I didn't realize hoes.com had a reputation of being strict! I thought we were kinda loose actually. Other than the "click here" of course.

I don't have nearly the amount of rules as some of the other big link lists.

marc

Well, marc, I don't know if everyone would agree that hoes has that reputation, but it has come up in conversations I've had with people.

On the other hand, when you do list a site the listing is a good one, that lasts.

My own experience, before I stopped subbing after the 'click here' stuff, is probably pretty typical. Pretty much every linklist I submit to lists every one of my sites, all of the time. When they don't accept the site, it's for a good understandable reason.

But hoes reviewers were only accepting about 6 out of 10, on average. Why they accepted one and not another, I had no clue. I did various tests to try to figure out why the acceptance ratio at hoes was so bad - sometimes a site I thought was very agressive would be accepted, sometimes a really clean site would be rejected.

I've discussed with people, over the years, the various reasons why sites might not get accepted at hoes - Is the use of a hub or small linklist link as the 3rd link out the problem? Does hoes have a harder content policy? Is there some word or another that hoes reviewers don't like?

What can I say - same site, everyone else accepts it every single time, but hoes reviewers don't. That makes you more strict. ;-}

Yup I quit submitting a long time ago to hoes, had problems getting sites listed and posted the last one submitted and mezzanine said there's no reason why it didnt get listed, and was told to resub it, and I did and it still didnt get listed - so I just quit

most reviewers know my sites and I put a lot of time in them and make things very clear to the surfer and almost always use the .com in my text and never try and trick surfers into thinking there getting something for free and the tour

Ditto, yet I have no problems getting listed elsewhere. |goodnight

Im not sure what's wrong with my sites at HOES. I have 20 sites listed out of 42 submitted. There are probably a few still in the queue yet to be reviewed. I have their recip with LOR, Adult List, Smut Gremlins, Rechard's Realm, Penis Bot, Wet Place and Mike's Free Porn. I consistently get listed at LOR, Adult List, Smut Gremlins, Richard's Realm and Mikes Free Porn. (Penis Bot and Wet Place were recently added so I'm sure most are in their respective queue's) So yeah, I would say HOES is strict.

Seems about the same as my experiences.

I see a trend with the comments and I do have an answer for all of you. I haven't seen a comment like "I've never been listed on hoes.com"... all of the comments are "not ALL of my sites are listed with hoes.com". The reason is thus: Our queue of submissions is growing every month. Lots of webmasters are continually getting into the free site game making it competitive for webmasters. Because we can't accept 400 sites a day, we have to be very strict about what we let in for the day. Sometimes this involves deleting sites by good, established webmasters that look good, are built well, but possibly are using content that we've seen before or the reviewer just doesn't like the content for that day. It's hard to come up with a reason for a deletion sometimes. Another reason could be that we want to allow lesser-known webmasters the opportunity to have their site accepted that day and have to substitute their site for one of your sites.

I would say that if many or most of your sites are being accepted, that's a good thing. Hoes.com in not an open free-for-all. Maybe it's good that we have a bit of a reputation as being strict. It means that our quality control process is in full effect and is working.

I hope that helps. Keep us in your submission queue, the traffic is still the same quality as it's ever been and you'll get listed "most of the time"!

marc

WOW! That's a really bold statement.

Believe me when I say that I do know where you're coming from & that I agree, you can't list 400 new sites each day, but to say stuff like "It's hard to come up with a reason for a deletion sometimes. Another reason could be that we want to allow lesser-known webmasters the opportunity to have their site accepted that day and have to substitute their site for one of your sites" is not going to keep you on the submit list of established free site webmasters & that might actually hurt you in the long run :(

And no, I don't have a another solution to this problem - and it is a problem that I wish I had - lol

Actually, I do have a solution - go the Tommy route: paid partner accounts with a cap as to how many submitters you allow (start with whatever number of sites you think is a good number to list each day & then allow more if needed)

Wow, that must be a problem.

You don't list all sites the submitted to you, even good ones, that's fine it's your site. But the fact that you have an "official thread" for denials and then you do not answer some webmasters as to why they are being denied bothers me.

But like I said before, it's your site...

glad I quit submitting a long time ago - IMO it's crazy to trade a fs from a seasoned wm on a non mirror page that knows FS seo and trade it off on a newer less known webmaster....

the well known webmasters who submitt to me are the first ones I list...

and believe me I give all leget submitters a chance to be listed and out of the 4 years I been a LL owner I can count on 1 hand who was new that kept building sites and didnt go 404 or let there domains expire, or didnt start to blind link tours or started the same niche same pay site thing day in a day out

marc, what you are saying, which is that you only have room for a certain number of sites each day so you don't accept everything, is what I decided you were doing a few years back.

Based on the tests I ran it was the only theory that made sense.

And everybody understands what you are doing, especially people who also submit galleries.

But, it's not fair to my trusted linklists to put your recip on the same sites I give them.

This has always been one of the difficulties with building a specialized site to sub to you under the 'click here' rules - who do I pick to list with you? They have to be big enough to get past your reviewers, but have some other kind of problem that makes them equivalent to hoes.

Marc, Its nice that you have taken the time to respond to these questions. From what you posted though there is one thing I have seen for myself that is a little off. I dont get listed most of the time, its more like once in a very long while. Around the area on 1 site listed for 25 submitted.

I do some pretty weird categories like wet and messy which I doubt gets that many submissions and I use content I shot myself, promoting a site I made myself, and still dont get accepted.

So yes you have great traffic and all, but is it really worth it for the seasoned submitter to use a reciprocal spot for you on the off chance of getting listed?

I dont have a solution for you and of course it is your site, I just wanted to point out that in my experience its not a matter of getting listed most of the time, but closer to once in a blue moon.

Just kinda frustrating that the sites meet the stated rules and dont get listed so someone else can have a shot.

I talked to my reviewers and confirmed what I assumed to be true. They keep an eye out for the old-school, trusted webmaster submissions. BUT, no even the oldest, most trusted webmaster's submission will make it if the content is overused or duplicate for that day. Alot of times a new set comes out from a sponsor and several webmasters quickly make free sites with it. The queue is in chronological order. So if a new webmaster with a great free site uses it first, they get listed and we have to decline the old webmaster with the duplicate content.

Bottom line is this. If you make quality free sites with lesser used content, you'll likely get listed MOST of the time. I can't control outside factors like a new webmaster beating you to the punch with content. I'm sure everyone can understand my dilemma.

If you aren't getting the support you need from the board or my spamblasted personal email account, please send to my lead reviewer, Chuck:

ch /@// hoes.com

I've instructed him to keep a closer eye on that email account.

marc

Well, at least you have a legit reason for declining the submits now :D