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SheepGuy 2006-12-12 02:00 AM

About AVS's
 
A couple of people have asked for more info, so here goes. A lot of this is just my opinion, but if anyone is interested in making AVS sites there are a few tips here that I've learned through the years. BTW, AVS sites are not the only thing I do, but I spend a couple of hours a day on them and for the time I put in, the income is higher than most of what I do proportionate to time spent.

About AVS's, the beauty is that a lot of the truly great wm's left that area of the biz around 2002 when Adultcheck ripped everyone off, now it's unsaturated and the money is improving, whereas since free sites mostly all look the same, and everyone is doing them, I'm not surprised that sales are dropping. I would hate to rely on doing the same thing as everyone else, using the same sponsors, and competing with everyone and their brother who think it's the only way to get started. The fact that a ton of pros here don't know much about AVS sites should tip you off as to why they are worth looking in to.

The other beauty is that it takes about the same amount of time to build an AVS site as it does a free site. and if you have your own content you're not tied to any sponsor and can do what you please (within limits) for advertising.
If you don't have your own content it's still a better deal than building a free site for a couple of reasons. On your splash page or pages the surfer still sees the banner or text link for your sponsor. They are no less likely to click on it than they would be if it was a free site. You also get more traffic to your front page from the AVS linklist, which is mostly visited by AVS members, who have credit cards and have paid for porn in the past. High quality traffic. Also, limited ads are allowed inside your protected area (the rules vary between AVS's), what you advertise in there is seen only by credit card porn buying surfers, the best surfers in the world to sell to.
Top that off with the chance to sell a membership in the AVS itself, which gives the surfer access to thousands of sites for less than what a paysite charges, and you've got part of a pretty good business model ;)
It works for me to the point where I haven't made a free site in about 3 or 4 years.

There are about three different ways you can work AVS's.

I mostly do premium sites now, recurring income, a bit more work but you have the freedom to have some fun with them and rebills are far better than any single paysite rebills are. Premium sites generally require around 300 pics and a professional looking design.
I used to have 3 paysites and sold them because they were too labour intensive, had to keep adding content, etc.
Premium AVS sites, ya build 'em, promote 'em, forget 'em, and keep getting paid for 'em. I like that ;) Premium sites are best done with your own content since one major AVS, ProAdult, won't allow you to promote any paysites inside the protected area of your ProAdult Quantum (premium) sites unless they own them. I do a lot with ProAdult because I have my own content and members rebill better than any other AVS I know of. If you're using sponsor content though, and need their ads, CyberAge Platinum and Netverifier Elite give you more leeway with the advertising, and are still well worth the time to build and promote. I sometimes mirror premium sites with some changes on different domains with different AVS's, nobody's told me I can't, and if an AVS was to say no, then they would just have one less site. It's a very symbiotic relationship that way.

The second way is basic sites, l do a lot of them, generally 50 pics minimum and very reasonable advertising rules, about the same as free site rules. If you're used to turning out a free site a day then basic sites are probably the way to go. No recurring income, but you can put one together in less than an hour once you have your content ready.

Third is Free AVS's, the AVS makes it's money by giving free access to all of it's sites in exchange for the surfer taking a free trial on a mega paysite. You generally only need 20 pics or so but I use 50 anyways. No recurring income, $15-$20 a signup and you can advertise AVS sites with other AVS companies from inside their sites, which is a huge plus if you have some premium AVS sites to promote. These are still surfers who have whipped out their cc to join a site, even if it didn't cost them anything.

I use all three ways, I try to make one premium site a week and two or three basics or free AVS's. I'm working on a large project right now that will likely take a year to build, but if I wasn't I'd be doing 3 premiums a week and around 10 basic or free AVS's and still have time to promote them all. That's with a link list that takes up an hour or so a day of my time.

If you want to get into these there are a few tricks I'll share with you.
1) diversify, don't just use one AVS, use a lot of them, right now I use ProAdult for masterpiece type mini-paysites, Netverifier for high quality stuff that's not as spectacular, Cyberage for stuff I want recurring income on, but don't want to work so hard for, Sexkey, FreeNetPass and Cyberage basic for one-off quicky sites where I don't have a lot of content and advertise sponsors heavily. Sexkey works best for me at that at present, but that may change.

2) Have a hub!! As soon as you get 3 sites together make a hub, use any free sites you have in there as well, but list the AVS's higher. If you have a link list you've got it made, but if not, build a hub!! Human nature says that the grass is always greener on the other side, and if you feed traffic from inside your AVS sites to a hub that has other AVS sites from competing companies in the same niche, you will sell memberships!! This is very important and ties in with what Mr MaryLou was saying on "On the Bench" on Saturday. Build little "traffic traps", not actual traps, but keep the surfer interested and fucking around with your smut longer than the next guy's and prosper. I have a hub (that needs work) at http://www.hotwetvagina.com Inspired by MML I'll be working on that all day tomorrow to make it perfect and adding links from every ProAdult Quantum site I own, just below the signup script. Then I'll do hubs for outside traffic only, for every AVS I deal with. Have a link to them as an SSI I can easily add to or modify and put 'em up on every AVS site I've got.

3) Never use an AVS's freehost, they all suck. Although I used to use ProAdult's and still have some sites hosted there I don't use them anymore.

3) For some reason the scumbags who run sites that give away backdoors love to pick on AVS sites, so I have a buddy give them my backdoor every now and then, then wait until I see the traffic spike, then change the name of the first protected page on my site and with the AVS so that paying members can get through, and put up a redirect on the original url to wherever I want to send traffic.

That's about all I can think of off hand, I'm sure there is more. Anything you want to know about that end of the biz if I can answer I will.

For examples of my style, and I do things a little different than most folks even in the AVS part of the biz, take a look at www.youngsmut.com in the categories, most of the AVS sites are mine, tho I didn't design them all, used to work with a crew, and some of the sites listed frankly suck IMO, and have been there for years. I keep them though because they either have PR or sell for reasons that escape me |huh
If anyone wants a backdoor to a site to see that end of it just e-mail me, and if I know you I'll send it.
Also, if you decide to give AVS's a try follow the link in my sig for a growing list of link lists that will list you (don't forget mine ;)

Fonz 2006-12-12 04:33 AM

Great article SheepGuy!
When I get the boot at my daytime job one of these days I might actually give this a try. :)

Bookmarking it...

Selenia 2006-12-12 05:04 AM

Nice read. :) I've been mucking about with the idea of making a few AVS sites, and this is definitely a great help. :)

Lemmy 2006-12-12 08:09 AM

Nice informative read, thanks! I've been looking for more legs to stand on so I might look into this further. I'm still a little discombobulated about the whole concept. |loony|

Useless 2006-12-12 08:52 AM

Damn, Sheepguy - that's a great chunk of info. |thumb

CraigT 2006-12-12 10:39 AM

I love it when webmasters explain what they are personally doing with no agenda other than helping others.... Very Well Done SheepGuy!!!!

Mejon 2006-12-12 11:13 AM

Nice topic, SheepGuy! Very usefull!

Preacher 2006-12-12 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SheepGuy (Post 318665)
...You also get more traffic to your front page from the AVS linklist, which is mostly visited by AVS members, who have credit cards and have paid for porn in the past. High quality traffic. Also, limited ads are allowed inside your protected area (the rules vary between AVS's), what you advertise in there is seen only by credit card porn buying surfers, the best surfers in the world to sell to...

This was originally why I got interested in the AVS concept some years ago. But when I read about webmasters leaving the AVS model in droves I shelved the idea.

Very good read and informative, thanks Sheepguy. |thumb

virgohippy 2006-12-12 02:17 PM

Thanks for sharing Sheepguy.

Seems I've taken on a bit more then I can handle, again, but AVS is quickly moving it's way to the top of my todo list. :D

SheepGuy 2006-12-12 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CraigT (Post 318751)
I love it when webmasters explain what they are personally doing with no agenda other than helping others.... Very Well Done SheepGuy!!!!

Well, not entirely with no agenda ;) I build AVS sites and want more places to submit them, and if anyone else wants to try AVS's they can always sign up under me on my sig page ;)
Aaah, but for some reason Sexkey doesn't have a wm referral program|huh

Tommy 2006-12-12 02:46 PM

Hmmmm

I miss my avs money and i really enjoyed building them

always something new, fresh


you guys need to have a links page outside the members area and link all your avs sites together

spread around the traffic and make the surfer think his id gets him a lot of access

SheepGuy which avs do you think sells the most passes ???

CraigT 2006-12-12 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SheepGuy (Post 318796)
Well, not entirely with no agenda ;) I build AVS sites and want more places to submit them, and if anyone else wants to try AVS's they can always sign up under me on my sig page ;)
Aaah, but for some reason Sexkey doesn't have a wm referral program|huh



Hey SheepGuy, I think I have the solution for this issue. If you can email me at "craig "at" sexkey.com" I can get you what you need.

SheepGuy 2006-12-12 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy (Post 318804)
Hmmmm

I miss my avs money and i really enjoyed building them

always something new, fresh


you guys need to have a links page outside the members area and link all your avs sites together

spread around the traffic and make the surfer think his id gets him a lot of access

SheepGuy which avs do you think sells the most passes ???

I'm going to do something like that link page for every AVS I deal with, I used to do it before, but sort of drifted away from it.
As far as who sells the most passes my guess would be CyberAge, but they aren't the guys I make the most money with, if anything I think they are the closest to being saturated.
Tommy if you want to list AVS sites I'd be happy to send some your way ;)
I cover most niches and use my own content.

john_proadult 2006-12-12 04:33 PM

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ponygirl 2006-12-12 05:42 PM

well I just got to read this whole thing...this is very interesting, thanks Sheepguy |thumb

I think I'm going to look into this. It seems perfect for freesite builders who may have built up a nice collection of content and have a little traffic to throw around :)

LowryBigwood 2006-12-13 02:08 AM

Nice article Sheepguy! ;) Very useful information, thanks for posting it.

Fonz 2006-12-13 03:42 AM

As of today I'm accepting AVS sites at http://www.mature-erotica-links.com

You made me do it SheepGuy! Damn you! :D

SheepGuy 2006-12-13 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fonz (Post 318915)
As of today I'm accepting AVS sites at http://www.mature-erotica-links.com

You made me do it SheepGuy! Damn you! :D

All Right Fonz!|bananna|
I'll add you to my submitting mix today!

Sexvilly 2006-12-28 09:54 AM

in 2004 when I just started making freesites I tried FreeAVS scheme, just build and submit them to same list of link-lists, many allow that. and ratio $$/FreeAVS site was better than $$/FreeSite. it was SexKey and some sales from invitation-only FreeAVS that pay $25 for signup. still receive occasional sales on both accounts.

Chop Smith 2006-12-28 09:59 AM

Does a premium AVS site need to be on its own domain?

Fonz 2006-12-28 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chop Smith (Post 321634)
Does a premium AVS site need to be on its own domain?

As far as I know you can put it in a subdir.
http://explicitsluts.com/quantum/fucksluts/ is an example of a pro adult quantum site

Chop Smith 2006-12-28 12:03 PM

Thanks Fonz. Let me expand my question a bit.

Would it be best to buy a domain for the premium ones and sub-directory the feeders?

SheepGuy 2006-12-28 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chop Smith (Post 321659)
Thanks Fonz. Let me expand my question a bit.

Would it be best to buy a domain for the premium ones and sub-directory the feeders?

I really wouldn't bother. I have about 200 premium sites and only one is on it's own domain. Also I think having feeders on different domains from the premium site increases that sites PR since the links from the feeders are incoming only.

SirMoby 2006-12-28 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chop Smith (Post 321659)
Thanks Fonz. Let me expand my question a bit.

Would it be best to buy a domain for the premium ones and sub-directory the feeders?

I have some premium AVS sites on their own domain and some in sub directories with a bunch on a domain. The ones with the dedicated domains have always done better with SE traffic.

Should you try one of the Tri Tech (CyberAge, CyberSexNetwork)? I've been getting rebills for almost 6 years now. I think it's worth investigating.

Chop Smith 2006-12-28 04:18 PM

Thanks for the input, Moby. Sheepguy rekindled an ideal I had a few years back that fit in my master plan. Thus, all opinions are appreciated. I am hoping to see my NYC buddy in February to pick his brain about this.

SheepGuy 2006-12-28 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirMoby (Post 321680)
I have some premium AVS sites on their own domain and some in sub directories with a bunch on a domain. The ones with the dedicated domains have always done better with SE traffic.

Should you try one of the Tri Tech (CyberAge, CyberSexNetwork)? I've been getting rebills for almost 6 years now. I think it's worth investigating.

I do OK with CyberAge as well, and I know I'm in a minority with wm's who do AVS sites but I do far better with ProAdult. Most of the wm's I know do best with NetVerifier, and that used to be true for me as well, but not for quite a few years now. CyberAge is steady, but so is PA, I deal with both because the surfer sees that the grass is always greener on the other side and if I was to just promote one company, well, it just wouldn't make sense. I also build and promote NV and Sexkey and get regular checques, though not very big ones.
I spread 'em around, CyberAge has a problem with vegetable insertion, PA has a problem with some words I use on bondage sites. If one AVS turns me down I go to another one.

rachelo 2007-01-01 03:09 PM

Great article SheepGuy, you got me interested in AVS sites but I need to learn a bit more.
I have a couple of questions: What is a backdoor to an AVS site and what does an AVS site look like once you get inside, a bunch of galleries? or a big gallery, (you mentioned you use about 50 pics for a basic site and about 300 for a premium one).
Also do you place the advertising of other AVS sites or sponsors like on a free site?

I guess I have some more learning to do, any one knows of a good place to learn more about this?

RedCherry 2007-01-01 05:05 PM

Thanks Sheepguy, that was a great article. I've been doing AVS since I first got in the business, and my premium avs sites are always my best converting sponsors. :) I like the linking idea though, currently I have some of my premium avs sites linked together, but not all. I use NetVerifier alot, and still have a few proadult. You have re-inspired me to do more premium avs sites in 2007. |thumb

RedCherry 2007-01-01 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rachelo (Post 322360)
I have a couple of questions: What is a backdoor to an AVS site

Normally, it is a page with a link to your members area, that you give to LLs to review your content, since you put .htaccess on your members area that doesn't allow access to your members area except from your domain, and the avs.
Quote:

Originally Posted by rachelo (Post 322360)
and what does an AVS site look like once you get inside, a bunch of galleries? or a big gallery, (you mentioned you use about 50 pics for a basic site and about 300 for a premium one).
Also do you place the advertising of other AVS sites or sponsors like on a free site?

I'm curious on sheepguys answer on this. Mine have a lot of galleries, my biggest premium avs site just went over 50 galleries, and I update it weekly. I use site depth script for all my avs sites, and load up content usually a few months in advance so I only have to work on updates once in awhile. The rest of my sites update 2x a month.

Most AVSs have rules in advertising, for instance, banners have to be placed below galleries, and have to say the link leads offsite. You have to read for each AVS what they allow.

Chop Smith 2007-01-01 07:15 PM

Is there something wrong with my thinking?
 
This thread perked my interest in using AVS' as another tool to promote my pay sites. Most of my research has centered around ProAdult and other AVS might be different. Just about the time I was sure I was going to give AVS' sites a test I found this: "Contributors can not send traffic to their personal pay sites using ProAdult." This is a bad thing for me.

I would not think that one could expect to make much money from selling access to their own AVS premium site. If the AVS company has been around for a while there is probably not much of a pool left to throw your pitch and get sign ups from. Seems to me if you are doing AVS' sites you would still need to concentrate on getting sponsor sign ups.

Xallow 2007-01-01 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chop Smith (Post 322401)
If the AVS company has been around for a while there is probably not much of a pool left to throw your pitch and get sign ups from.

This was originally my thinking too and almost kept me from getting into pushing porn at all, but then I thought...

There are people turning 18 every day so new porn surfers are always available to sell too

SheepGuy 2007-01-02 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rachelo (Post 322360)
Great article SheepGuy, you got me interested in AVS sites but I need to learn a bit more.
I have a couple of questions: What is a backdoor to an AVS site and what does an AVS site look like once you get inside, a bunch of galleries? or a big gallery, (you mentioned you use about 50 pics for a basic site and about 300 for a premium one).
Also do you place the advertising of other AVS sites or sponsors like on a free site?

I guess I have some more learning to do, any one knows of a good place to learn more about this?

Hi Rachelo,
A backdoor is just the first page of your content that an mmber has to join to see or have a pasword to see. Most people who do AVS use .htaccess to protect it.
On the inside, on smaller sites I usually use 2 galleries of 25 pics or so, on larger sites I use up to 100 or more pics per gallery, and up to 40 or more galleries depending on the type of site. With a very large site I put a menu page as my first inside content page so surfers only click on the pages they're looking for.
The company I deal with the most profitably (ProAdult Quantum) doesn't allow me to advertise much on the inside, which is a pissoff, but they are profitable and their members stay forever so my sites with them are very clean. I would build a lot more with them if their rules were a little lighter.
CyberAge Platinum and NV Elite allow me to advertise sponsor paysites inside the members area so I do a lot with them. CyberAge Basic, Sexkey, and FreeNetPass allow me to advertise whatever I want inside and outside for the most part , including AVS sites with competing companies, so I do a lot with them.
Every AVS has it's different way of doing things, you just have to know what you want out of the site before you build it.
And ya gotta read their rules. I find that when I have a site turned down I can either make some minor changes to get it accepted or just go to a different AVS. I wouldn't reccomend anyone dealing with just one company.

If anyone wants to see the inside page of one of my sites just PM me with what site and I'll give you the backdoor for a couple of days. But my AVS sites in general don't look much like anyone else's and I'm sure my content pages look different as well. I'm sure any sane AVS would give you a temporary pass for a couple of days to have a look for yourself. It would definitely be in their best interests.

SheepGuy 2007-01-02 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedCherry (Post 322382)
Normally, it is a page with a link to your members area, that you give to LLs to review your content, since you put .htaccess on your members area that doesn't allow access to your members area except from your domain, and the avs.

I'm curious on sheepguys answer on this. Mine have a lot of galleries, my biggest premium avs site just went over 50 galleries, and I update it weekly. I use site depth script for all my avs sites, and load up content usually a few months in advance so I only have to work on updates once in awhile. The rest of my sites update 2x a month.

Most AVSs have rules in advertising, for instance, banners have to be placed below galleries, and have to say the link leads offsite. You have to read for each AVS what they allow.

Hi RedCherry,
I used to upload a years worth of up updates when I first built Adultcheck Gold sites, but only because they used to have a rule about that, and send me nasty e-mails when I didn't update on time. I found a neat little script that would do it for me automatically on the first of every month, but I've lost it now. You could set it for whatever time period you liked, saved a lot of work.
Now I don't update, nobody asks me to, nobody complains if I don't, and I don't advertise that I do. With AVS sites there is new stuff every day, so the surfers are happy, I'm happy, and nobody bitches.

SheepGuy 2007-01-02 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chop Smith (Post 322401)
This thread perked my interest in using AVS' as another tool to promote my pay sites. Most of my research has centered around ProAdult and other AVS might be different. Just about the time I was sure I was going to give AVS' sites a test I found this: "Contributors can not send traffic to their personal pay sites using ProAdult." This is a bad thing for me.

I would not think that one could expect to make much money from selling access to their own AVS premium site. If the AVS company has been around for a while there is probably not much of a pool left to throw your pitch and get sign ups from. Seems to me if you are doing AVS' sites you would still need to concentrate on getting sponsor sign ups.

Hey Chop,
So don't use ProAdult ;)
When I'm working on promoting a sponsor who's selling well for me I don't use them, I use the other guys. The other guys rules are slacker, still the same quality traffic inside, so I use them.
Personally I think PA is hurting themselves with that rule, I do alright with them, but I would build more and make more money with them if it wasn't for that rule that no other AVS has.
I make a good chunk from cams, but I can't advertise them there, so when I want to boost cam sales I build elsewhere.

RedCherry 2007-01-02 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chop Smith (Post 322401)
Just about the time I was sure I was going to give AVS' sites a test I found this: "Contributors can not send traffic to their personal pay sites using ProAdult." This is a bad thing for me.

I agree with sheepguy, don't use them. One of the reasons I don't have a lot of pro-adult sites. But the few I've done I don't sell a lot of passes, but they retain forever.

RedCherry 2007-01-02 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SheepGuy (Post 322442)
Now I don't update, nobody asks me to, nobody complains if I don't, and I don't advertise that I do. With AVS sites there is new stuff every day, so the surfers are happy, I'm happy, and nobody bitches.

That is one of the things that has kept me from building a lot of premium avs sites is the hassle of updates. They really don't complain? I've always tried to update them regularily, and the site I update the most has the most members.

Lately what I've done is more sites where join this site, get access to these other 4 type of thing, and that way I focus my main updating on those sites, so I don't have to update every single one.

Thanks, I will have to re-think that, maybe put some nv elites out that don't update, just give them access to sites that do. :D I tend to keep mine all in the same broad niche, so all the content appeals to the rest of the members.

Useless 2007-01-02 01:41 PM

What about using sponsor content on normal AVS sites with the sole purpose of promoting that sponsor? I've seen one or two programs which state that they are uncomfortable with that and I can understand their point, since they can't see what you are doing with it once it's behind the members area script/htaccess. The fact that you may be making AVS sales for yourself while not necessarily converting AVS members over to the content's sponsor sites is another reason.

Any experience with this or would you suggest avoiding the use of sponsor content on AVS sites?

SheepGuy 2007-01-02 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior (Post 322591)
What about using sponsor content on normal AVS sites with the sole purpose of promoting that sponsor? I've seen one or two programs which state that they are uncomfortable with that and I can understand their point, since they can't see what you are doing with it once it's behind the members area script/htaccess. The fact that you may be making AVS sales for yourself while not necessarily converting AVS members over to the content's sponsor sites is another reason.

Any experience with this or would you suggest avoiding the use of sponsor content on AVS sites?

I've never tried it, but maybe I will. I haven't seen any AVS rules against it, and I think it would be to the sponsor's advantage to have as many ads as possible inside protected areas of AVS sites. Sure, they can't have a look inside, but in any sponsor relationship there has to be an element of trust.
Content is cheap though, so using your own is probably the best way to go.

RedCherry 2007-01-02 11:03 PM

I just decided to give proadult a try again, and wow they allow you to promote a sponsor now, and use their content. MegaPartner.com I've never heard of them, but I signed up for them. That makes ProAdult now more appealing. I also like the fact that other webmasters can promote your proadult sites too, something netverifier doesn't offer that I wish it did.

Carrie 2007-01-02 11:25 PM

UW many of the basic or "free"-level AVS sites you'll see are sponsor content sites, upselling to the sponsor inside.
If you have a sponsor that has "no AVS/AEN" in their TOS, just drop the rep an email and let them know you'll have a backdoor URL available for them anytime they want to see it. I'd think most would happily allow you to build sites for verified CC owners/users.


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