Porn MegaBucks says I'm a fraud
 

After sending them roughly 5-6,000 hits without a sale I was ready to dump them when Wahoo! I made a sale! So I check the stats to see what kind of big bucks I made, but the stats didn't tell me. So I sent a slightly sarcastic email asking "How much?" and stating that their stats suck and I would likely be dumping them anyways.
Boom! I make 3 more sales! Now I'm thinking there's something wrong on their end. 4 sales from 6 hits to a free hosted site that I don't even remember putting up is a bit unusual. But it's late at night, and I go to bed.
I wake up in the morning to this email
"Important Information Regarding:
Affiliate ID(s): -----------
Webmaster Program: Pornmegabucks

Your Affiliate account(s) has/have been deactivated due to suspicion of fraud.


Thank you,
CCBill"

Funny thing is the sales were reported as coming through Paycom |huh
but the email is from CCBill.
Regardless, I am dumping Pornmegabucks, and hoping that this doesn't affect my status with CCBill, who I do well with.
Everyone who has ever had any business with me knows I fly straight, so this fraud bit pisses me off.

I had no idea who the fraudulent webmaster was, I only go on statistics, not personalities, but I can tell you this.

From September 5 to September 7, 5 sales were made to Erotic Punishment under what I now assume is your reseller ID.

All of those sales were made from the same IP, all of them were monthly sales, and NONE of the 'members' at any stage entered the members area.

Read into that what you will.

I'm happy to provide you with screen shots to prove it.

I already have honey. I read that you are accusing me of fraud. My conscience is clear.
Read into that what you will. If however this affects my business with other sponsors, please post your proof publicly now, or in court.
I will not take being slandered in a public forum lightly though, and if it should affect my income I will sue.

So you are giving me permission to post the screen shots to prove it?

I'm not slandering anyone...as I said until your post I had no idea who the reseller was who I had cancelled. I merely cancelled a reseller who clearly had fraudulent memberships.

If having 5 sales from the one IP, none of which ever entered the members area, isn't fraud, what exactly would you call it?

We're not in the habit of terminating webmasters who send legitimate sales, we're not stupid. However in the interests of protecting our processing, we have no choice but to terminate webmasters who have clearly fraudulent signups.

Post away. Just assure me that this will have zero affect on my dealings with other sponsors and we have no problem. I don't want any money from you, and yes, as I said, those sales definitely look unusual at best. I'm thinking it's a problem at paycom's end, so why notify CCBill? If I have problems with them because of your actions, then we have problems.
Why not track back to see who's credit card was used, from where, and take it from there. Talk to paycom before accusing me. Or talk to my lawyer.

I have to get permission from my boss to post the screenshots (he owns the program, not me) but as soon as I get his ok to so, I'll post them.

As for notifying CCBill...I cancelled a webmaster from our program due to apparent fraud. When terminating a webmaster in CCBill they request a reason, I gave them one.

Let me remind you that this was not a personal attack on YOU. As I said I had no idea 'who' the webmaster was, just that there was fraudulent activity on an account.

What other sponsors do with the information is up to them. But let me remind you that it was you who brought it to the board, not me.

Aaah, now it's "apparent fraud". Talk to your boss, I'll talk to my lawyer.
I'm finished talking to you.
In the meantime, I suggest you or your boss talk to paycom and track that IP address, maybe even ask them why they would allow 5 signups from the same IP?
I'm sure this is a computer mixup that I have no control over, but if that mixup harms my business through your actions, well, it's your problem too.

I'm sure your lawyer will advise you that given the proof at hand, my actions were completely justified.

I've just written to Paycom asking them to investigate and see if they can shed any light on the situation. I'll be sure to inform you of what they say. The likelihood that it is a 'computer mixup' is extremely remote. I didn't mention that the usernames and passwords all bore a resemblance to each other also. Fraud is being committed by someone...just who that is remains to be seen.

As soon as I hear back from Bill, I'll post the screenshots.

Maybe you should have thought of that first.

Maybe I've been doing this long enough to know fraud when I see it.

Whether or not YOU did it is beyond the point. They were fraudulent signups...I refunded them and terminated the reseller responsible.

As I've already said, but I'll repeat it just so you get it. This isn't about YOU, it's about fraudulent signups done by someone. I had no idea WHO that was, nor did I care.

Given your insistence that you are not responsible, i'm happy to have Paycom investigate, but it's unlikely they'll be able to shed any information on the matter, but we shall see.

Good luck with Pornmegabucks I won a competition years ago for $1000 and never got it, after many many emails I just got ignored

Murray, you elected to have that paid via an Amazon gift certificate, instead of a check.

The GC was purchased, and you were sent the receipt but for whatever reason you claimed you didn't receive it.

I still have the receipt if you'd like me to send it to you again.

Every other winner received their funds.

And incidentally, that issue has absolutely NOTHING to do with a webmaster defrauding US. Try and keep on topic eh?

And BTW, the return address on all the emails you sent me didn't have a .com at the end of it, and you wanted me to send emails to you to a completely different email address/domain. After asking nicely that you fix it, and then warning that if you didn't fix it, I would stop replying to your emails, that is probably what happened.

How does a person who relies on the web for their income repeatedly have an invalid reply-to in their email client?

Hey Lisa, you didn't used to work for Southwest Airlines, did ya? |couch|

I probably should stay out of this since it has nothing to do with me but I'm sorry to see this happen to you Sheepguy. Another sponsor (whom I won't mention) did the same thing to me about a year ago. I'm still trying to find all the links out there to their sites so I can remove them. Not fun!

Porn Mega Bucks?? Is that program still around? I stopped promoting them for various reasons years ago. Good luck. :)

I would expect a sponsor to keep the lines of communication to a webmaster open and investigate first, before accusing of fraud and shutting down an account, especially since it's a CCBill program and who knows on which records of theirs the info is kept for future reference.

I think Sheepguy made it clear that he too is pretty certain that there was something fishy going on there with those sales. That was not the issue. The issue was with accusing the webmaster of that fraud, rather than investigating first. If it happened to Sheepguy, it could happen to anyone (and obviously it does happen from time to time). I would expect any sponsor that I work with to talk to the webmaster first and investigate and not just terminate an account and flag that webmaster as the one responsible for the fraud.

My point exactly.

Thanks LadyD, I was ready to drop them for poor conversions when these "sales" started showing up.

I think SheepGuy was using plateman's magic sign-up bot which comes equipped with its own credit cards, yet isn't advanced enough to change IPs.
|couch|

Sounds like yet another case of a scripting error on the biller's end that ends up screwing both the webmaster and the program. It very well could be some douchebag attempting to sign-up, getting declined, attempting again, getting declined...lather, rinse, repeat...but the declines are getting tallied as sales. That explains why it's the same IP and why no one ever logged in to the member's area.

Lisa, your boss Bill and I go way back

I would have a hard time believing any fraud was committed by Sheepguy no matter what screen caps or proof you have

if I were you I would take a step back and maybe take a fresh look at everything

your dealing with a well respected webmaster who has a very good reputation, a little caution is warranted

Unfortunately it seems webmasters can be held accountable when surfers sign up for programs fraudulently. Happened to me, happened to you, welcome to the club. :)

Had that problem in a somewhat different case.

First try the CC got declined for an error. Tried again being even more careful, and got declined again. |banghead|

Pulled up the CC account to verify the info, and the multiple charges are showing on my statement.|crazy|

So not all scripts are perfect. Especially in the online world where a lot of programmers do not have the formal training or experience.

These sales were not declines, they were active sales, on 5 different cc's.

As mentioned before, i've been doing this a long time and I've never seen a sales pattern like this that was NOT fraud.

I've mailed Paycom, they are investigating. If they can prove that it is NOT fraud on the part of the webmaster, I'm more than happy to retract that statement and notify CCBill of same. My job is to protect our processing...when that is put in jeopardy by a webmaster i don't know from Adam my responsibility is to the program.

Incidentally, no email was ever received regarding stats prior to these sales going thru...possibly it was caught up and not verified at SpamArrest, but no email was ever received.

Links to the screen shots are below.

http://pornmegabucks.com/pmb16985.jpg

http://pornmegabucks.com/pmb16985members.jpg

Whatever happened to innocent til proven guilty?

Just remember one thing Lisa, we don't need you, but you need us so bare that in mind when you deal with webmasters.

You should disable that login/password from screenshot - or its promotion for GGJ board members ? :D

We don't need fraudulent webmasters. Take a look at those screenshots and ask yourself what your reaction would have been.

Remember we are a recurring program...we make money when webmasters make money. We gained nothing from those fraudulent sales, they were all refunded. This is not a case of accusing a webmaster of fraud so we can keep the money generated by the signups...there is none.

Again this was not a personal attack on Sheepguy...I had no idea who the webmaster was/is...and don't care. The sales were fraudulent, and clearly not genuine...so they were refunded and the webmaster axed.

If Paycom comes back to me with an explanation that proves it's not fraud as I've said I'll apologise unreservedly and also notify CCBill.

It was not my intention to harm anyone's reputation for the fun of it. I didn't bring this to the boards.

5 credit cards, one ip (located in the US) and 5 different emails 3 of which point to France. My first guess would be someone was testing out some stolen credit card numbers.

In that case my reaction would of been to contact the webmaster first off to discuss the issue and go from there along with an investigation straight away with the billing company.

You've treated the guy like shit as if he's some kind of criminal without firm evidence it was him.

To me that has "unprofessional" written all over it.

Lisa, how do you define a personal attack?
I include being accused of fraud as a personal attack, and repeatedly through your posts here you have accused me of fraud, referring to me as "the webmaster" or grouped in with "fraudulent webmasters" or whatever.
You have launched a personal attack on my integrity and my reputation as a webmaster who has flown straight for over 10 years now. This is the first time anyone has ever accused me of fraud, a polite term for theft, and yes I am severely pissed off.
I brought it to the board because I will not be accused, convicted, and sentenced for a fraud I did not commit, and quietly say nothing.
You picked the fight by not even consulting me before putting a black mark beside my name.
On the plus side, for your inept handling of this situation, you have certainly picked up some nice publicity for your program.

The referrer for all of those sales is listed as "http://www.google.com/search". Doesn't take much investigating here to figure this one out. If I do a Google search for the site in question, 4bdsm.com, using 4bdsm as the search string, SheepGuy's referral link is in the number one spot. So who ever created these 'fraudulent' sign-ups did so just as your screenshots indicated. They searched for your site, using Google, and SheepGuy became the unfortunate victim here due to him doing a good job promoting your site. |thumb

I usually charge for investigation, but I'll let you have this one pro bono.

I couldn't tell you what the guy's goal was, but I'm guessing he's toying with site security.

SheepGuy is NO fraud.. he is a long standing trusted member of this community(and many previous ones) I have no doubt what so ever that his word is true and honest.

That would have been my first thought...

...and the referrer details would just about have confirmed it.


Lisa, just get Bill to pay Murray the 1K, it's owed to him and the onus is on PornMegaBucks is to get it to him... no matter what gets in the way..

DD

And therein lies the real crux of the issue at hand.

Wow...simply wow...I would have thought an old school program like PMG would know better |dizzy|

A number of things could be responsible for that pattern. To blindly assume the webmaster is responsible is short-sighted to say the least.

Wow! Thanks guys and gals for the support! It is greatly appreciated. The screenshots for some reason showed up unreadable on my screen, so thanks UW for digging into this for me|cheers|
This truly is a great community!
Now I'm off to pull some links before I get all happy-weepy like and forgiving ;) I'm still meeting my lawyer Tuesday.

kinda funny thread, whats funny is that now some old shit got kicked up, and a 1000 dollars are owed to murry for an old contest

murry make sure you get your money and pay a few bills and go out on the town on porn mega bucks, be sure and post a screen shot enjoying your winnings|thumb

Same thing I was thinking after reading all these posts.

I really think it's wrong what has been said and done to SheepGuy and an apology is certainly due to him.

I don't promote you and am glad because if I did I would be pulling links right now |angry|

It's fairly clear that few in this thread have ever been responsible for running a program

I have seen this EXACT pattern before, probably 15 or so times in the last 6 years and every single time it's been a 'webmaster' committing the fraud to their own gain.

IF I'm wrong this time, I will apologise as I've said, but it would be a first. The only person who stood to gain from this is the webmaster who would have been paid for the sales had they not been refunded.

Perhaps it's time to wonder who might have wanted this situation to occur...it's certainly not us. But maybe there's someone out there with an agenda against Sheepguy who thought this might be a tidy way to deal with it.

I'm not yet convinced that we haven't been defrauded by a webmaster, but I'm more than prepared to be proven wrong.

As to talking to the webmaster first, what would that prove exactly? Do you really think a dishonest webmaster would just admit to it when questioned? All anyone would do, regardless of their involvement, would be to deny it. So how is one to prove that the denial is based on innocence or further deception?

Murray was the one who opted to be paid by Amazon gift certificate, which was duly purchased according to his instructions. Given that all of the emails that I hit 'reply' to bounced back at me, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the email address which he asked the gc to be paid to was invalid also.

Debbie won a couple of months later and had her check in less than 3 weeks...

That statement sums up the biggest issue I have with how this has been handled.

You've immediately assumed it was the webmaster that was responsible for the fraudulant signups and have placed the responsibilty on the webmaster to prove otherwise when it should be the other way around.

You should be the one proving that the IPs and emails involved are connected to the webmaster, as it's all but impossible for him to prove the negative.

My assumption may be wrong, but it's based on many years experience with this exact issue. Call it learned behaviour, if you will.

If this is not fraud on the part of the webmaster it would be the VERY FIRST TIME that it is not the case.

And as I have repeated ad nauseum, if that is not the case, I will apologise, but I was not prepared to put our processing at risk by allowing those memberships to be charged back.

I've asked Paycom to investigate as they are the ones who processed the transactions. I haven't asked Sheepguy to prove anything at all.

If someone wanted to just try out some stolen credit cards they could have done it on the site without a referrer code...the use of a referrer code immediately places the suspicion, rightly or wrongly, on the webmaster, because they are the one who stands to gain.

The transactions are clearly fraudulent, no question there. The fact that they were all done by one specific reseller connects them to him immediately, far more definitively that any IP or free email address does.

yes I did ask to get payed via an amazon certificate, that is not the issue. by the way lets not talk about who has email issues

ICQ Message
got your mail...i sent your info on to bill and wasn't aware he hadn't paid you yet

he hasn't answered the last few mails i've sent him tho so now i'm starting to wonder if i've gotten caught in his spam filters

i'm gonna try calling him this morning and find out what is up

So yeah please show me this recipt from Amazon. Incase you wernt aware I went over your head to Bill to get this sorted and it never did, even after he promised to get in touch with amazon.

also

How does a person who relies on the web for their income repeatedly have issues with contacting their boss?