Gun law changes and reality
 

The result of the court case in DC has been news out here, and personally I was a bit shocked at the result.

.. but with opinions aside, I have to say that I have never heard of a story where a gun-owning citizen in the US has used their gun in 'self-defence' and it has saved their life?

Are there cases like this?
Is it just not newsworthy?
or is the self-defence argument just not a reality?

( please don't turn this thread into a pro vs anti argument, I just want to know if defence situations exist?)

DD

I am from Toronto Canada and we don't have many hand guns here but we do have a lot of long guns (rifles, shotguns, etc) especially outside of large cities. We do get a lot of American TV including their news. Here are my 2 cents.

There are often stories on U.S. TV of people using their guns to protect themselves but they are often stories of 1.) people being killed in shoots out with intruders or the reverse, 2.) being shot by intruders because their are afraid to take a shot or 3.) killing family members by accident.

Sadly, the last you hear about the most IMHO. In an urgent situation a gun with its bolt and ammunition locked away safely is of no use to anyone. What happens is guns are sometimes left easily accessible and then kids get a hold of them.

I've never heard of one & I think it's an excuse.

The NRA used to do a show on like Saturday afternoons called the Armed Citizen which highlighted one or two (I don't remember which) instances where a citizen with a gun had prevented a crime.

According to the NRA each year in the U.S. gun owners use firearms for protection as frequently as 2.5 million times.

According to the WWW Gun Defense Clock, every 13 seconds an American firearm owner uses a firearm in defense against a criminal.

While I admit that these people have an incentive to twist the stats in their favor, I also have to admit it does happen.

That is because you don't live in the south. :D I see it from time to time in the Houston news and I actually worked with a guy in Dallas that killed a guy breaking into his house.

If I'm not mistaken the law change won't make much difference anyway. There are only a handful of states that have a Castle Doctrine in place, so if you use even a legally registered gun in your home in a state that has no Castle Doctine, you are still in a bind legally if you use it.
Fortunately, Mississippi has Castle Doctrine in place. I don't do guns, but if I come home or otherwise find some fool up in my business, I have a nice big meat cleaver to ensure they leave in a bucket.

The thing that always got me about do that was if you said, "stop or I'll shoot", the robber is likely to fire at you (and maybe kill you). If you say nothing and shoot first there is always a chance that you'll accidentally mistake a robber and shoot a family member or friend.

The number of mass murders in the U.S. is what saddens me. Elsewhere in the industrialized world, it is rare to hear about a gunman going into a school and work place and killing a large number of people. In the U.S. it is quite literally a weekly occurrence.

I worked with a delivery guy that killed a man tring to rob him, but he was then fired from his job because its against policy to carry weapons. I carry a gun with me (abiding state law) while i work but as soon as i get home it gets locked in a box and put out of reach of any little fingers that might be around. Im in the deep south and hear about defense shootings somewhat often. I like fantc's meat clever idea personally

http://www.nraila.org/ArmedCitizen/Default.aspx
You can just choose a state from the dropdown to see the archives of the armed citizen articles

Funny, I always thought the right to arms had more to do with defending yourself against oppressive GOVERNMENT rather then your neighbor. |huh

What gets me are the semi-automatic weapons. More and More fools are buying these machine guns and they are getting on to the streets.

This just happened to be in the news today. http://www.khou.com/topstories/stori...d.d53dd22.html

Machine guns fire on automatic, not semi-automatic.

Of course these guns are getting on to the street. What the fuck good is a gun in your closet?

I was just watching that story on the news. Man, that's wild. The guy shot two people in the back with a shotgun...while talking to 9-11 on the phone. And the jury found did not convict him, either. Don't mess with Texas...:)

But I do think guns are used in legit self defense from time to time. If someone pulls out a gun to protect themselves, and no shots are fired, you will not hear about it since it doesn't make the news. how often this happens is hard to say....gun proponents say it happens all the time.

Fucking Hell... what sort of society is that in that area?? Killing two people with a shotgun over stolen property, and he walks free.... I am shocked that this could happen, that he could get off, and that it is just accepted!

It's in Texas. People are different there.

I've got six bullet wounds due to a drunken ex having easy access to a gun at one of these homeowner's right to bare arms and having a house full of guns.

Sadly many of the people that I know have houses full of guns, it's very common here.

I personally don't know of anyone actually using one in self defense despite so many people that I know owning guns.

I do hear about lots of domestic violence involving guns and most years someone dies after some idiot fires one into the air celebrating New Year's eve.

We are very different. We don't put out welcome mats for people who want to invade our homes, kill our families and steal our belongings.

How do people in your part of the world handle those situations, call 911 and hope for the best?

Moby's right. It's different in Texas, and the South as a whole for that matter. We don't like the idea of feeding and housing criminals and giving them A/C and cable TV for years just so they can get out and do it all again and again.

As for Cleo, it looks like alcohol is the common denominator. Perhaps Florida should toss their drunks keys so they can terrorize the roads instead or do like they do in Moby's neck of the woods and give them ballots so they can vote for crackheads for mayor.

It's also different in parts of Canada, I'm from a rural area in New Brunswick where everyone has guns, long guns though, nobody has handguns. You grow up with them, hunt with them, shoot sick animals with them, but you'd never really think of using them on a person, even if you're really drunk and really pissed off.
But, if your house is broken into, the shotgun is handy and sometimes the thief gets shot. If you're the shooter you'd likely go to jail, but not for very long. Probably get more time for shooting a moose out of season.
If you shot a guy in the back though, you'd be fucked.

Well - its not that different in these parts. Then again, our house burglars are not that violent either - usually they take more time to make sure no one sees them doing' their "business", and if they get spotted, they hit the road instead of trying to kill.

Over here you are allowed to shoot without warning only to prevent physical damage to yourself or others, but not to stop a theft or anything else that does not involve violence against person. You have to fire at least a warning shot in the air first.

As far as this case with Joe dude goes - thats obviously an overkill - he shot the bad guys in the BACK. Thats beyond self defense by miles IMHO.
They were not breaking in his house, though they were committing a crime, and while he had the right and obligation to stop them, shooting them without at least shouting something like "Hey you - stop!" is too much, and he should get at least few years in prison "on paper".

My 2¢

What does this have to do with the issue at hand? As I understand it, he shot 2 guys in the back that were NOT trying to invade his home, kill his family or steal his belongings.

Florida invented the "Shoot First" so guns will be there for a long time.

Don't forget, DC usually has the highest percentage of gun deaths in the nation. It often goes back and forth between DC and Detroit but DC is a heavily armed city.

It's fucked up for sure. In states where deadly force is allowed, it's only for self defense, and somehow they were able to convince the jury that this was self defense. I think the fact that they were illegal immigrants probably swayed the jury's decision.

I grew up in the rural south USA where everyone had guns but nobody ever got shot. We hunted, shot tin cans and such, but that was about it. Guns are a huge part of the culture in the south, but society has changed a lot. People just seem more angry these days...at least that's my preception. Some of it is justified, but I think we are sometimes made to feel threatened by the powers that be.

If I was elected to Congress, I'd push forward a proposition stating that guns should only be owned by licensed hunters and drug dealers. No one else has a practical reason for owning one, unless, of course, the hunter gets drunk and starts shooting at you, or the drug dealer gets pissed when you ask him to please stop trying to sell drugs to your kids and raping your wife. Otherwise, I can think of very few practical reasons to own a gun.

Being a rural New Yorker is a lot like being a mid-westerner. Lots of hunters around here, people without dental plans, and even the occasional Confederate flag on some ne'er-do-well's rusty old piece of shit pick-up truck which has been burning oil for the last three years, yet somehow, mysteriously, still runs and passes state inspection. I'm not a gun person. I don't feel the need to own one, though I do sometimes wish I had one - mostly when my neighbors are being noisy and obnoxious. I do, however, feel that everyone has the right to protect their family and their person as they see fit. I don't agree with what that paranoid nutjob in Texas did. He killed two people over STUFF. Not even his fucking STUFF. He really wanted to be the neighborhood hero by taking lives to protect his neighbor's possessions. Douchebag. I bet he feels differently about that now.

Guess I'll never vote for you :D

Yes - I own guns and I will shot your ass if you enter my home without my permission. I still have a hole in the floor from the last time I was burglarized - shot the fuckin fridge - that will teach it to run when I shout "Freeze"

Me too.. but what do I know..|huh

Ironic that guns are legal and |potleaf| isn't.

Too many people on this big rock anyway.

Funny, up here |potleaf| is basically legal for personal use, but you go to jail for having a handgun.

... and we marry gays and lesbians. Oh yeah, on-premises swingers clubs are legal too. Shit, we're all going to hell here in Canada!

To borrow from Peter Ustinov, have you ever thought that Canada was America run by the Democrats?

Decisions, decisions, freeze my fucking ass off or live in redneck hell, decisions, decisions...

Too bad Canada doesn't invade the US and overthrow our government.

Maple syrup for all!

well easy then in holland, we are not allowed to have any gun, guns are forbidden, also knifes are forbidden, not any weapen is allowed here, even the police are in huge problems when they shoot a person..,,and that happens maybe 1 time a year

Is there anyplace warm that weed and sex is good and guns are bad?

I bet that refrigerator will never try to steal from you again! :D

Honestly, no matter what weapon I have in hand, whether it be a pistol or a kitchen chair, if someone breaks into my home while myself and/or family are here, I'm not going to waste time on sizing up that person's intentions - I'm going to open up my mini-sized can of whoop-ass and see if I can break a bone or two before they either flee or kill me and rape my sleeping dogs. I'd much rather shoot my appliances as a stern warning than take the life of someone who wanted to steal my 10 year-old VCR or broken DVD player. (They better not touch that XBox 360! My son would kill them.)

If I witnessed someone unlawfully entering my neighbors' homes, well, that's just too bad for them. I'd call the police and probably hit the panic alarms on our cars to sort of let them know that a pussy like me is watching them from his dead-bolted house next-door. I'm not going to look for a tangle with television thieves who aren't harming anyone except the insurance company.

If the g'ment outlawed all firearms tomorrow, I wouldn't care and I'm not paranoid enough to believe that all of us/we semi-law-abiding citizens would be gathered up by gun-toting crack dealers and shot. I also don't care if they remain legal. I'm not one who cares about the true intention of this alleged Right to Bear Arms because most of the gun owners I know, excluding PapaGMP ;), are uber-patriots and believe every word that drips out of Bush's idiotic flapping cunt. The only way those people are going to revolt against the government is if religion, tobacco and sex with your sister is outlawed - or perhaps if an intelligent, well-spoken black man becomes president. But what's the chance of that happening?
|jackinthe

yes its here in holland, only we dont have hot days all of the year, but who cares, weed is legal and can be bought at every corner, hell you may even grow your own, the sex is good, also on every corner (okeeeeeee you have to pay for that one then)....now the hot days....thats an other thing, guns are forbidden|boobies|
Hell the dutchies are vs to USA|crazy|

Some of my ancestors were from the Netherlands. I remember my Aunt telling me about wooden shoes and a miserable cold wet climate. She was very proud of being descended from Vikings. That side of my family are all fat giants that I don't have anything to do with but that is a whole other story.

Looks fucking cold to me.

well where the fat giants came from of that side of your fam...i dont know, because the dutch are not hamburger eaters, we eat patatoes and veggies and a piece of meat everyday, so we eat healthy, the wooden shoes, beats me we are known for wooden shoes , but only the farmers wear them and the stupid toerist buy them (btw i have send several webmasters those things as a present):D, the temp i cant figure out, but today we had a F89.6 in celsius C32 which is so fucking hot for a dutchie....i like about F68 celsius C20, we are not used to high temps, but like the dutchies are we always complain or its to hot or to cold:D

I know hot
http://uk.holidaysguide.yahoo.com/p-...iami_weather-i

yep thats a hot temp, thats why me and hubby went every year to mallorca (the place i wanna buy a house and spent the rest of my life) mallorca has nice summer temp too, its hot still a different hot then in holland with that temp, why i dont know, would be the humid factor i think, i just wanna have a higher temp in winter.......holland is cold and wet most of the year and to get back on this topic...totally without GUNS:D